What's new

Saudi Arabia’s - Arab Spring, at Last

Bubblegum Crisis

SENIOR MEMBER
Joined
Feb 4, 2012
Messages
2,612
Reaction score
5
Country
Saudi Arabia
Location
United Arab Emirates
...

Quote :

Saudi Arabia’s
Arab Spring, at Last



The crown prince has big plans to bring back a level of tolerance to his society.

By Thomas L. Friedman
Nov. 23, 2017

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia —
I never thought I’d live long enough to write this sentence: The most significant reform process underway anywhere in the Middle East today is in Saudi Arabia. Yes, you read that right. Though I came here at the start of Saudi winter, I found the country going through its own Arab Spring, Saudi style.

Unlike the other Arab Springs — all of which emerged bottom up and failed miserably, except in Tunisia — this one is led from the top down by the country’s 32-year-old crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman, and, if it succeeds, it will not only change the character of Saudi Arabia but the tone and tenor of Islam across the globe. Only a fool would predict its success — but only a fool would not root for it.

To better understand it I flew to Riyadh to interview the crown prince, known as “M.B.S.,” who had not spoken about the extraordinary events here of early November, when his government arrested scores of Saudi princes and businessmen on charges of corruption and threw them into a makeshift gilded jail — the Riyadh Ritz-Carlton — until they agreed to surrender their ill-gotten gains. You don’t see that every day.

We met at night at his family’s ornate adobe-walled palace in Ouja, north of Riyadh. M.B.S. spoke in English, while his brother, Prince Khalid, the new Saudi ambassador to the U.S., and several senior ministers shared different lamb dishes and spiced the conversation. After nearly four hours together, I surrendered at 1:15 a.m. to M.B.S.’s youth, pointing out that I was exactly twice his age. It’s been a long, long time, though, since any Arab leader wore me out with a fire hose of new ideas about transforming his country.

We started with the obvious question: What’s happening at the Ritz? And was this his power play to eliminate his family and private sector rivals before his ailing father, King Salman, turns the keys of the kingdom over to him?

It’s “ludicrous,” he said, to suggest that this anticorruption campaign was a power grab. He pointed out that many prominent members of the Ritz crowd had already publicly pledged allegiance to him and his reforms, and that “a majority of the royal family” is already behind him. This is what happened, he said: “Our country has suffered a lot from corruption from the 1980s until today. The calculation of our experts is that roughly 10 percent of all government spending was siphoned off by corruption each year, from the top levels to the bottom. Over the years the government launched more than one ‘war on corruption’ and they all failed. Why? Because they all started from the bottom up.”

So when his father, who has never been tainted by corruption charges during his nearly five decades as governor of Riyadh, ascended to the throne in 2015 (at a time of falling oil prices), he vowed to put a stop to it all, M.B.S. said:

“My father saw that there is no way we can stay in the G-20 and grow with this level of corruption. In early 2015, one of his first orders to his team was to collect all the information about corruption — at the top. This team worked for two years until they collected the most accurate information, and then they came up with about 200 names.”

When all the data was ready, the public prosecutor, Saud al-Mojib, took action, M.B.S. said, explaining that each suspected billionaire or prince was arrested and given two choices: “We show them all the files that we have and as soon as they see those about 95 percent agree to a settlement,” which means signing over cash or shares of their business to the Saudi state treasury.

“About 1 percent,” he added, “are able to prove they are clean and their case is dropped right there. About 4 percent say they are not corrupt and with their lawyers want to go to court. Under Saudi law, the public prosecutor is independent. We cannot interfere with his job — the king can dismiss him, but he is driving the process … We have experts making sure no businesses are bankrupted in the process” — to avoid causing unemployment.

“How much money are they recovering?” I asked.

The public prosecutor says it could eventually “be around $100 billion in settlements,” said M.B.S.

There is no way, he added, to root out all corruption from top to the bottom, “So you have to send a signal, and the signal going forward now is, ‘You will not escape.’ And we are already seeing the impact,” like people writing on social media, “I called my middle man and he doesn’t answer.” Saudi business people who paid bribes to get services done by bureaucrats are not being prosecuted, explained M.B.S. “It’s those who shook the money out of the government” — by overcharging and getting kickbacks.

The stakes are high for M.B.S. in this anticorruption drive. If the public feels that he is truly purging corruption that was sapping the system and doing so in a way that is transparent and makes clear to future Saudi and foreign investors that the rule of law will prevail, it will really instill a lot of new confidence in the system. But if the process ends up feeling arbitrary, bullying and opaque, aimed more at aggregating power for power’s sake and unchecked by any rule of law, it will end up instilling fear that will unnerve Saudi and foreign investors in ways the country can’t afford.

But one thing I know for sure: Not a single Saudi I spoke to here over three days expressed anything other than effusive support for this anticorruption drive. The Saudi silent majority is clearly fed up with the injustice of so many princes and billionaires ripping off their country. While foreigners, like me, were inquiring about the legal framework for this operation, the mood among Saudis I spoke with was: “Just turn them all upside down, shake the money out of their pockets and don’t stop shaking them until it’s all out!”

But guess what? This anticorruption drive is only the second-most unusual and important initiative launched by M.B.S. The first is to bring Saudi Islam back to its more open and modern orientation — whence it diverted in 1979. That is, back to what M.B.S. described to a recent global investment conference here as a “moderate, balanced Islam that is open to the world and to all religions and all traditions and peoples.”

I know that year well. I started my career as a reporter in the Middle East in Beirut in 1979, and so much of the region that I have covered since was shaped by the three big events of that year: the takeover of the Grand Mosque in Mecca by Saudi puritanical extremists — who denounced the Saudi ruling family as corrupt, impious sellouts to Western values; the Iranian Islamic revolution; and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

These three events together freaked out the Saudi ruling family at the time, and prompted it to try to shore up its legitimacy by allowing its Wahhabi clerics to impose a much more austere Islam on the society and by launching a worldwide competition with Iran’s ayatollahs over who could export more fundamentalist Islam. It didn’t help that the U.S. tried to leverage this trend by using Islamist fighters against Russia in Afghanistan. In all, it pushed Islam globally way to the right and helped nurture 9/11.

A lawyer by training, who rose up in his family’s education-social welfare foundation, M.B.S. is on a mission to bring Saudi Islam back to the center. He has not only curbed the authority of the once feared Saudi religious police to berate a woman for not covering every inch of her skin, he has also let women drive. And unlike any Saudi leader before him, he has taken the hard-liners on ideologically. As one U.S.-educated 28-year-old Saudi woman told me: M.B.S. “uses a different language. He says, ‘We are going to destroy extremism.’ He’s not sugar-coating. That is reassuring to me that the change is real.”

Indeed, M.B.S. instructed me: “Do not write that we are ‘reinterpreting’ Islam — we are ‘restoring’ Islam to its origins — and our biggest tools are the Prophet’s practices and [daily life in] Saudi Arabia before 1979.” At the time of the Prophet Muhammad, he argued, there were musical theaters, there was mixing between men and women, there was respect for Christians and Jews in Arabia. “The first commercial judge in Medina was a woman!” So if the Prophet embraced all of this, M.B.S. asked, “Do you mean the Prophet was not a Muslim?”

Then one of his ministers got out his cellphone and shared with me pictures and YouTube videos of Saudi Arabia in the 1950s — women without heads covered, wearing skirts and walking with men in public, as well as concerts and cinemas. It was still a traditional and modest place, but not one where fun had been outlawed, which is what happened after 1979.

If this virus of an antipluralistic, misogynistic Islam that came out of Saudi Arabia in 1979 can be reversed by Saudi Arabia, it would drive moderation across the Muslim world and surely be welcomed here where 65 percent of the population is under 30.

One middle-age Saudi banker said to me: “My generation was held hostage by 1979. I know now that my kids will not be hostages.” Added a 28-year-old Saudi woman social entrepreneur: “Ten years ago when we talked about music in Riyadh it meant buying a CD — now it is about the concert next month and what ticket are you buying and which of your friends will go with you.”

Saudi Arabia would have a very long way to go before it approached anything like Western standards for free speech and women’s rights. But as someone who has been coming here for almost 30 years, it blew my mind to learn that you can hear Western classical music concerts in Riyadh now, that country singer Toby Keith held a men-only concert here in September, where he even sang with a Saudi, and that Lebanese soprano Hiba Tawaji will be among the first woman singers to perform a women-only concert here on Dec. 6. And M.B.S told me, it was just decided that women will be able to go to stadiums and attend soccer games. The Saudi clerics have completely acquiesced.

The Saudi education minister chimed in that among a broad set of education reforms, he’s redoing and digitizing all textbooks, sending 1,700 Saudi teachers each year to world-class schools in places like Finland to upgrade their skills, announcing that for the first time Saudi girls will have physical education classes in public schools and this year adding an hour to the Saudi school day for kids to explore their passions in science and social issues, under a teacher’s supervision, with their own projects.

So many of these reforms were so long overdue it’s ridiculous. Better late than never, though.

On foreign policy, M.B.S. would not discuss the strange goings on with Prime Minister Saad Hariri of Lebanon coming to Saudi Arabia and announcing his resignation, seemingly under Saudi pressure, and now returning to Beirut and rescinding that resignation. He simply insisted that the bottom line of the whole affair is that Hariri, a Sunni Muslim, is not going to continue providing political cover for a Lebanese government that is essentially controlled by the Lebanese Shiite Hezbollah militia, which is essentially controlled by Tehran.

He insisted that the Saudi-backed war in Yemen, which has been a humanitarian nightmare, was tilting in the direction of the pro-Saudi legitimate government there, which, he said is now in control of 85 percent of the country, but given the fact that pro-Iranian Houthi rebels, who hold the rest, launched a missile at Riyadh airport, anything less than 100 percent is still problematic.

His general view seemed to be that with the backing of the Trump administration — he praised President Trump as “the right person at the right time” — the Saudis and their Arab allies were slowly building a coalition to stand up to Iran. I am skeptical. The dysfunction and rivalries within the Sunni Arab world generally have prevented forming a unified front up to now, which is why Iran indirectly controls four Arab capitals today — Damascus, Sana, Baghdad and Beirut. That Iranian over-reach is one reason M.B.S. was scathing about Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

Iran’s “supreme leader is the new Hitler of the Middle East,” said M.B.S. “But we learned from Europe that appeasement doesn’t work. We don’t want the new Hitler in Iran to repeat what happened in Europe in the Middle East.” What matters most, though, is what Saudi Arabia does at home to build its strength and economy.

But can M.B.S. and his team see this through? Again, I make no predictions. He has his flaws that he will have to control, insiders here tell me. They include relying on a very tight circle of advisers who don’t always challenge him sufficiently, and a tendency to start too many things that don’t get finished. There’s a whole list. But guess what? Perfect is not on the menu here. Someone had to do this job — wrench Saudi Arabia into the 21st century — and M.B.S. stepped up. I, for one, am rooting for him to succeed in his reform efforts.

And so are a lot of young Saudis. There was something a 30-year-old Saudi woman social entrepreneur said to me that stuck in my ear. “We are privileged to be the generation that has seen the before and the after.” The previous generation of Saudi women, she explained, could never imagine a day when a woman could drive and the coming generation will never be able to imagine a day when a woman couldn’t.

“But I will always remember not being able to drive,” she told me. And the fact that starting in June that will never again be so “gives me so much hope. It proves to me that anything is possible — that this is a time of opportunity. We have seen things change and we are young enough to make the transition.”

This reform push is giving the youth here a new pride in their country, almost a new identity, which many of them clearly relish. Being a Saudi student in post-9/11 America, young Saudis confess, is to always feel you are being looked at as a potential terrorist or someone who comes from a country locked in the Stone Age.

Now they have a young leader who is driving religious and economic reform, who talks the language of high tech, and whose biggest sin may be that he wants to go too fast. Most ministers are now in their 40s — and not 60s. And with the suffocating hand of a puritanical Islam being lifted, it’s giving them a chance to think afresh about their country and their identity as Saudis.

“We need to restore our culture to what it was before the [Islamic] radical culture took over,” a Saudi woman friend who works with an N.G.O. said to me. ”`We have 13 regions in this country, and they each have a different cuisine. But nobody knows that. Did you know that? But I never saw one Saudi dish go global. It is time for us to embrace who we are and who we were.”

Alas, who Saudi Arabia is also includes a large cohort of older, more rural, more traditional Saudis, and pulling them into the 21st century will be a challenge. But that’s in part why every senior bureaucrat is working crazy hours now. They know M.B.S. can call them on the phone at any of those hours to find out if something he wanted done is getting done. I told him his work habits reminded me of a line in the play “Hamilton,” when the chorus asks: Why does he always work like “he’s running out of time.”


“Because,” said M.B.S., ``I fear that the day I die I am going to die without accomplishing what I have in my mind. Life is too short and a lot of things can happen, and I am really keen to see it with my own eyes — and that is why I am in a hurry.”


Thomas L. Friedman (Foreign affairs, globalization and technology.)

The New York Times



....
 
.
saudi arabia is the ultimate THOT patrol HQ, a bulwark against feminism and a heaven for masculinity. sad to see it change
 
.
Thomas Friedman(Jewish American) interviews MBS and gives him platform to American audience regarding Iran. MBS wants to convince the American population of heightened measures against Iran with Saudi cooperation. American Jewish community is also interested in that. They give a gift in return by portraying him as revolutionary leader in the region. That's all there is to see here.

There is no Arab Spring nor is religion going to change. There are radicals and seculars in the region who currently reign. Both claim to represent 'true Islam' and both are dictatorial and vicious people. And both sides are liars. Whether that be all the Arab governments, Iranian government, or the highly influential terrorist groups ISIS and AQ. They are well received by the population, and that should be a sign to anyone that has a brain and is sincere in religion, that they are highly misguided.

So I reject this notion of an Arab spring, the only revolution that will happen in our modern day is when God prepares way for Mahdi to assume affairs. Until then, we are stuck with these dictators who force their way upon everyone and if anyone has different views he's not allowed to speak out unless he wants to be detained or killed. So I don't want to hear nothing about an 'Arab Spring'.
 
.
Author is a known Saudi shill. Arab spring was anything but tolerant and secular.
 
.
Envious, hateful and obsessed foreigners barking once again.

The facts that are mentioned in this article are facts. Not useless personal opinions.

The numerous positive steps and developments in KSA ever since MbS emerged are well-known and substantial and it bonds very well for the future.

KSA will only become an even stronger, richer and more influential country. Nothing that anybody can do about this.

Author is a known Saudi shill. Arab spring was anything but tolerant and secular.

Iranian troll what has your nonsense to do with the article again and the facts mentioned in it? Yeah right exactly, nothing. Go worry about your own.
 
.
Thomas Friedman(Jewish American) interviews MBS and gives him platform to American audience regarding Iran -
Note that KSA has used T.F. as a communication channel before, specifically with its "Arab Peace Initiative." So T.F.'s being Jewish is not so important to them as the fact he's long proved to be their reliable instrument: what T.F. publishes is likely the story MBS wants to push. Friedman's personal receptiveness to the Sauds' is not an indication of unified desires of the "American Jewish community."
 
. .
Note that KSA has used T.F. as a communication channel before, specifically with its "Arab Peace Initiative." So T.F.'s being Jewish is not so important to them as the fact he's long proved to be their reliable instrument: what T.F. publishes is likely the story MBS wants to push. Friedman's personal receptiveness to the Sauds' is not an indication of unified desires of the "American Jewish community."

Troll, nobody cares about the identity of this author or whether he is a Jew, a Martian or an ancient Semitic pagan. It's totally irrelevant.

What he has mentioned in the article are tangible facts on the ground. Not personal opinions. The examples that he has given are factual.

I know that an supposed American Jew like you is against a vibrant, powerful and strong KSA as KSA will eventually outsmart Israel due to demographics (already has ages ago), economy (already has ages ago) and potential (a good start and the future will prove me right eventually) but rather than hailing such changes, you rather want to create a useless narrative to create some useless stir.

As if KSA/MbS needs some article to prove his points.:lol: The achievements on the ground so far speak for themselves. Get it?
 
.
Troll, nobody cares about the identity of this author or whether he is a Jew, a Martian or an ancient Semitic pagan. It's totally irrelevant.
Falcon29 did, that's what I was contesting.

What he has mentioned in the article are tangible facts on the ground. Not personal opinions. The examples that he has given are factual.
T.F. usually writes opinion columns rather than engage in reporting so it's important to emphasize that this is reporting and not opinion.

For the rest: you're projecting a lot of stuff that there is no basis for in my writing, is there? Rather, I'm agreeing with you to a large extent. So why do you label me, "Troll"?
 
.
Falcon29 did, that's what I was contesting.

T.F. usually writes opinion columns rather than engage in reporting so it's important to emphasize that this is reporting and not opinion.

For the rest: you're projecting a lot of stuff that there is no basis for in my writing, is there? Rather, I'm agreeing with you to a large extent. So why do you label me, "Troll"?

You are trying to make it sound like this independent American journalist is somehow on the payroll of KSA which is ridiculous. Or at least that is the idea that I got from your post.

As for the Arab Peace Initiative that KSA has been the author of, nothing was hidden. Everything was published publicly. So far only KSA has come close to a similar sensible plan in fact.

If our supposed Muslim brothers have nothing else to offer but criticism they should for once, just for once, try to do something themselves or something better but as usual there is nothing to see. As with the Islamic Military Alliance criticism. Criticism and more criticism but nothing to offer on their own. What a surprise!
 
.
You are trying to make it sound like this independent American journalist is somehow on the payroll of KSA which is ridiculous. Or at least that is the idea that I got from your post.
I don't think T.F. is "on the payroll of KSA" at all. I don't see how one can get that idea from my post.

As for the Arab Peace Initiative that KSA has been the author of, nothing was hidden. Everything was published publicly. So far only KSA has come close to a similar sensible plan in fact.
Yes, but T.F. was the original conduit of the API, the reporter the Sauds' chose to break the story a month before the 2002 Beirut Summit of the Arab League.
 
.
Yes, but T.F. was the original conduit of the API, the reporter the Sauds' chose to break the story a month before the 2002 Beirut Summit of the Arab League.

So? Somebody had/has to break the ice. It's rather irrelevant to the message who delivers it as long as the message is delivered out and that was the case from day 1. Nobody has ever tried to hide anything.

It's all out there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative

If I am not wrong it was even approved by the Arab League back in 2002.
 
.
.
Note that KSA has used T.F. as a communication channel before, specifically with its "Arab Peace Initiative." So T.F.'s being Jewish is not so important to them as the fact he's long proved to be their reliable instrument: what T.F. publishes is likely the story MBS wants to push. Friedman's personal receptiveness to the Sauds' is not an indication of unified desires of the "American Jewish community."

I was bringing up the context, not sure what the rest of your post is about.

KSA will only become an even stronger, richer and more influential country. Nothing that anybody can do about this.

I believe most Arabs would welcome that as long as it not becoming more influential just for the sake of it. KSA can play a huge role in the region if it and Qatar worked together and enabled for a state of peace between KSA/Egypt led axis and Qatar led MB axis. All Arab nations need to allow for freedom of speech or any sort of leniency on that. When you enforce the opposite of that, the normal civilians begin thinking that way too and form dogmatic views. Just go view any topic in the Arab military related forums, those people there are delusional and hateful, and do not help reconcile our peoples views at all. They are not open to having understandings or allowing different input on matters to even be discussed.

So it has nothing to do about envy for me, I have no energy for that or interest in that. I'm against dogmatic mentality of people. It's black and white for many Arabs and that is wrong. If MBS wants to assert himself and unlock the potential in the region, why escalate the MB rift? Don't know why Arabs have an issue if the leaders are criticized. I criticize every leader, including many stupid officials within Hamas. You simply have to speak out against wrongdoings that are very critical to the society. Just because one side is dominant militarily does not mean there exists no social rift. One side is being treated horribly, and demeaned in unimaginable ways. That's just wrong and if the the guys who roll with the Saudi/Egypt axis can't admit that, then I'm suspicious of what efforts/'reform' they are really trying to bring to the region.

I'm not even going to blame the leaders, the people themselves have issues and just go look at the Arab forum, I took part in an discussion there and got banned from the a thread. Because the nasty people there threw millions of accusations at me and kept lying and evading the key points of debate and going on rhetorical tantrums. And when people of that side encourage that childish behavior, then I can't take any of them with seriousness. Has nothing to do with envy in my case. For others in this forum there certainly are envious people or people that just don't like KSA. That's not where I'm coming from.
 
.
I was bringing up the context, not sure what the rest of your post is about.



I believe most Arabs would welcome that as long as it not becoming more influential just for the sake of it. KSA can play a huge role in the region if it and Qatar worked together and enabled for a state of peace between KSA/Egypt led axis and Qatar led MB axis. All Arab nations need to allow for freedom of speech or any sort of leniency on that. When you enforce the opposite of that, the normal civilians begin thinking that way too and form dogmatic views. Just go view any topic in the Arab military related forums, those people there are delusional and hateful, and do not help reconcile our peoples views at all. They are not open to having understandings or allowing different input on matters to even be discussed.

So it has nothing to do about envy for me, I have no energy for that or interest in that. I'm against dogmatic mentality of people. It's black and white for many Arabs and that is wrong. If MBS wants to assert himself and unlock the potential in the region, why escalate the MB rift? Don't know why Arabs have an issue if the leaders are criticized. I criticize every leader, including many stupid officials within Hamas. You simply have to speak out against wrongdoings that are very critical to the society. Just because one side is dominant militarily does not mean there exists no social rift. One side is being treated horribly, and demeaned in unimaginable ways. That's just wrong and if the the guys who roll with the Saudi/Egypt axis can't admit that, then I'm suspicious of what efforts/'reform' they are really trying to bring to the region.

I'm not even going to blame the leaders, the people themselves have issues and just go look at the Arab forum, I took part in an discussion there and got banned from the a thread. Because the nasty people there threw millions of accusations at me and kept lying and evading the key points of debate and going on rhetorical tantrums. And when people of that side encourage that childish behavior, then I can't take any of them with seriousness. Has nothing to do with envy in my case. For others in this forum there certainly are envious people or people that just don't like KSA. That's not where I'm coming from.

For that to happen the current Qatari regime must change their stance on numerous front. First of all they need to stop undermining the GCC and siding against their own flesh and blood (fellow Arabs) for the sake of foreigners. They should stop their double play as well. They should stop supporting MB and other similar political groups when there is no democracy or freedom of speech in Qatar and when no opposition (whether Islamic or non-Islamic) is tolerated. They should stop arming militant groups in Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iraq and elsewhere who are doing nothing good but weakening Arab states. They should stop trying to act like some kind of savior of the anti-establishment while they are an absolute monarchy. They should stop trying to pretend that they are at the forefront of the "Islamic struggle" when they are one of the closest if not the closest ally of the West and for 20 + years have been hosting the largest US base in the region. They should stop inviting foreigners to their lands in order for them to set up bases that will act against the interests of the Arab nation and challenge us in our own neighborhood. Such moves would not be accepted by any regional state but Qatar allows this for obvious reasons (they are scared shitless of KSA).

Qatar should immediately stop their 24/7 propaganda crusade against KSA and numerous Arab states from Egypt to many others. It's totally unacceptable.

KSA post 9/11 and especially in the past few years (when King Salman became king and MbS gained more power) is correcting its own ills and doing (mostly) what it preaches. KSA wants regional progress and unity in the Arab world hence the many initiatives. On the other hand you have an Iranian regime who is doing nothing else but creating trouble wherever its influence is present. Now Qatar is on the same side or at least that appears to be the case.

KSA should not waste time and energy (in a perfect world) on tiny Qatar but look inwards and continue the excellent economic, social, religious, infrastructural, military, educational, scientific progress.

What they are doing nowadays and their spread of hostile propaganda is quite frankly unacceptable.

Arabs should ask themselves whether they want Qatar's vision or MbS vision of progress. Whether what Qatar has been doing is something to emulate or visions like Saudi Vision 2030 and the encouraging changes seen in KSA that no doubt already have impacted other Arab countries.

I can't see any goals or visions from Qatar. I cannot see any results from their policies. All I say is a tiny nation that is trying to punch way above its own weight and a tiny state with delusions of grandeur who somehow cannot accept that it is 1/1000 the size of KSA and that it's native population could fit into 1 tiny neighborhood in Riyadh. I see a hostile regime that has been trying to undermine KSA for ages. They were given many chances. Most recently during the latest GCC row years ago where they promised to fulfill their obligations. Nothing happened. I lost all trust in them. For all I care Qatar should be thrown out of the GCC and replaced by Iraq, Yemen or Jordan or all of them. Let them rely on the tiny waters that they share with the Wilayat al-Faqih Mullah's in Iran and Erdogan who they have bribed ages ago. As I see it they are a black-listed entity that should be considered as a hostile entity as long as they continue and are unwilling to change.

Screw Quntar is how I feel currently. Their leadership that is as the people are our own flesh and blood and they are innocent of their deluded and poisonous leadership. Many brave Qataris have stood up against their regime with great consequences for them. Entire tribes and clans have been stripped of their citizenship for standing with KSA (their ancestral homeland). Numerous al-Thani princes have also spoken out against the current Qatari regime and their actions.

let see give him a chance to do what he promises

He has already achieved what others in the region could not achieve in 10 years time in less than 2 years and this is just the beginning. He has already numerous tangible achievements to show for.

Also what matters here is that the people (Saudi Arabians) are in support of the changes by large (vast majority). I am sorry if even fellow Arabs are of another opinion but I will claim that locals know best what is the best for them. There is a positive vibe and optimism in KSA that I have never encountered before and that is saying a lot as Saudi Arabians have had it really well compared to most and usually we tend to be positive people.

I for once (I am still young) have never felt a bigger connection to any leader before like I do with MbS and the goals that he wants to achieve for us and the wider Arab world. Age (32) has probably a lot to do with is and him seeing that the ills need to be corrected from close hand and having the ability to do something about it.

I for once will be very supportive unless I see signs of the opposite (failure) being the case.

Meanwhile in Iraq;




Happy? Content?

Happy with the security, educational level, infrastructure, unity (or lack thereof), Kurdish "problem", Iranian Wilayat al-Faqih infiltration of Iraq, constant conflict, Daesh coming and going, 100's of Shia militias with their own agenda, uncontrollable population growth, collapsing economy, environment, no diversification etc. The story of most Arab nations nowadays yet the forerunner on most fronts (KSA) is being castrated in public. Only Arabs are capable of such behavior. All because they have some kind of problem with the current rulers as if the current rulers did them any harm to begin with. Or as if their own even more useless rulers were any better. If not for KSA you would have become an Iranian colony a long time ago by now not to mention who saved you from Iranian slavery 1400 + years ago.

Not to mention Lebanon that lives on Saudi Arabian remittances, Saudi Arabian economic support and handouts that their spineless leaders give to Hezbollah because they have no functioning state, no unity as a people and not even a military. Their most powerful "military" is some kind of rag-tag terrorist group (Hezbollah) that was founded by Iran and which is aided by them. Nasrallah is not even allowed to fart without the permission of Iran. Who needs such useless allies? All they want is our money. That Hariri fraudster (he should have been jailed in KSA for his corruption, Saudi Oger says hello) is not any better. It's time for KSA to let others back failed states if their own people cannot see what KSA has been seeing for decades and warned against. We warned against what would happen in Iraq and Syria decades ago. To no avail. Same story in Yemen. As long as you have hordes of uneducated, ignorant and impoverished locals who side with terrorist cults instead of the prospect of some kind of stability and cooperation, their countries and societies will remain failures while KSA/GCC is improving on all fronts and correcting their ills. I know which boat I want to sit in. If they want Al-Assad to keep murdering them, destroying half of Syria and achieving nothing, let them have him and his regime. Why should Saudi Arabian money go to such people? Let other idiots throw money into a dark pit. Such behavior must end right now and I am sure that MbS knows it.

Let's boost and improve our relations with the likes of the US, China, Russia, Japan, South Korea, Egypt, fellow GCC states (excluding Qatar unless they change), Jordan, Morocco, Indonesia, Malaysia, Pakistan, South American, European, African etc. nations instead.

End of rant.
 
Last edited:
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom