Saudi Arabia unveils SAAB-2000 AWACS to the public

[Viper0011.]

That was Musharraf's dictatorial style decision... to reduce the order of 6 Erieye to 4 and invest those funds in ZDK-03.
Now as you said, that decision of Musharraf turned out to be smart move.

1) A decision that's based on assessment from many departments and people, shouldn't JUST be credited to the individual on the power seat who signs off on a contract. Gen. Musharraf didn't come up with this decision in his house between his family. Nor does an ARMY general has ANY clue as to how AWACS, AEW work or how many TR modules are used in the AESA or PESA radars, or how the data links work or why should you pick a propeller plane vs. Boeing 737.....and Saab vs. the Chinese option.

This decision wasn't Musharaff alone, nor were the Chinese so ready to hug and kiss the Pakistanis. This deal had a LOT of input from the air force. It was the PAF who convinced Mushy to go the Chinese route and gave him justifications/ business case, etc.

2) This was a military decision, which a general can and should make guaranteed if the process works this way. I think just like the JFT and just like many other decisions have been made by the Civilian leadership, any loyal Pakistani, whether General or Civilian, will take the recommendation and will go towards the route best for their country. I don't think being a dictator or not has any relevance with it.

3) The next thing is "dictatorship", this is a separate topic and will derail the thread. I'd say open a new thread up and I'll debate with you there. Just because a general folded an entire system up and became a dictator, doesn't mean he wasn't a good commander or a loyal soldier. However, because he damaged democracy and put the entire constitution and the justice system under suspension and military rule, does make him a dictator. Mind you, it is also breaking the constitution too, so that comes under treason. A general serves the country and protects the system. He's a public servant, not a ruler. The civilian rulers are elected by the PEOPLE. While the soldiers and generals are created through rigorous training and combat. A professional general is trained to fight its enemy's army. Not how to take the stock market high up or bring foreign investments in or grow the GDP.

 

[MastanKhan]

That was Musharraf's dictatorial style decision... to reduce the order of 6 Erieye to 4 and invest those funds in ZDK-03.
Now as you said, that decision of Musharraf turned out to be smart move.

Hi,

Actually a junior officer of the air force had Musharraf's ear thru a general close to Musharraf---the air force guy was below the rank of AVM and equal or above the rank of a Sqdrn ldr---he talked to him about the 'what if factor' of the swedes---he also talked about diversity of assets ( the F 16 or Mirage 2k factor )---Musharraf understood the situation loud and clear---talked to his associates and they went for the Chinese ZDK's----.

The higher brass of air force was extremely unhappy with Musharraf over this issue----they later made open statements regarding this issue----

 

[OTTOMAN]

Hi,

Actually a junior officer of the air force had Musharraf's ear thru a general close to Musharraf---the air force guy was below the rank of AVM and equal or above the rank of a Sqdrn ldr---he talked to him about the 'what if factor' of the swedes---he also talked about diversity of assets ( the F 16 or Mirage 2k factor )---Musharraf understood the situation loud and clear---talked to his associates and they went for the Chinese ZDK's----.

The higher brass of air force was extremely unhappy with Musharraf over this issue----they later made open statements regarding this issue----

Thanks..
there were also rumors, that a high ranking Airforce officer had rented his personal house to SAAB officials or some thing similar. This in my opinion reflect corrupt behavior. No wonder Musharraf only needed basic proof and both were delivered strong message.

Hope Arabs will show their usual tolerance and will not mind few off tangent posts!

 

[Viper0011.]

Thanks..
there were also rumors, that a high ranking Airforce officer had rented his personal house to SAAB officials or some thing similar. This in my opinion reflect corrupt behavior.

You are correct on both the above statements. And yes, the "commission" was paid...

 

[OTTOMAN]

1) A decision that's based on assessment from many departments and people, shouldn't JUST be credited to the individual on the power seat who signs off on a contract. Gen. Musharraf didn't come up with this decision in his house between his family. Nor does an ARMY general has ANY clue as to how AWACS, AEW work or how many TR modules are used in the AESA or PESA radars, or how the data links work or why should you pick a propeller plane vs. Boeing 737.....and Saab vs. the Chinese option.

This decision wasn't Musharaff alone, nor were the Chinese so ready to hug and kiss the Pakistanis. This deal had a LOT of input from the air force. It was the PAF who convinced Mushy to go the Chinese route and gave him justifications/ business case, etc.

2) This was a military decision, which a general can and should make guaranteed if the process works this way. I think just like the JFT and just like many other decisions have been made by the Civilian leadership, any loyal Pakistani, whether General or Civilian, will take the recommendation and will go towards the route best for their country. I don't think being a dictator or not has any issue with it.

3) The next thing is "dictatorship", this is a separate topic and will derail the thread. I'd say open a new thread up and I'll debate with you there. Just because a general folded an entire system up and became a dictator, doesn't mean he wasn't a good commander or a loyal soldier. However, because he damaged democracy and put the entire constitution and the justice system under suspension and military rule, does make him a dictator. Mind you, it is also breaking the constitution too, so that comes under treason. A general serves the country and protects the system. He's a public servant, not a ruler. The civilian rulers are elected by the PEOPLE. While the soldiers and generals are created through rigorous training and combat. A professional general is trained to fight its enemy's army. Not how to take the stock market above or bring foreign investments in or grow the GDP.

Thanks...
# 1) & 2) You are right to every bit of your word, i acknowledge my immaturity, #3) you are also right and reflect wisdom but i feel you are missing the plane hijack in that particular case, but as you said let's leave it here...

However, as Mastan.K post hint, there were some parallel evaluations regarding AEWC, conducted by PAF.
Where SAAB was being pushed by the high brass, while low rank brass was cynical of the their bosses.. and so on.

 

[Viper0011.]

Where SAAB was being pushed by the high brass, while low rank brass was cynical of the their bosses.. and so on.

That's where in my post I referred to being loyal to Pakistan. Mushy's coupe is a different matter. But anyone loyal to the country looking at the two options, one all foreign and the other one with an option to produce AEW locally at some point, would've picked the later option. Mushy did that too.

 

[OTTOMAN]

Now coming to the point of Saudi AWACS.... since they have bought erieye, they should also go for few Gripen NG squadrons as well.

 

[Zarvan]

Now coming to the point of Saudi AWACS.... since they have bought erieye, they should also go for few Gripen NG squadrons as well.

100 Most advanced Grippen in Saudi Air Force and total of 540 most advance 4.5 Generation Fighter Jets in Royal Saudi Air Force along with 12 Awacs and than focus on getting 5th Generation is the way to go.
@al-Hasani

 

[MastanKhan]

Thanks..
there were also rumors, that a high ranking Airforce officer had rented his personal house to SAAB officials or some thing similar. This in my opinion reflect corrupt behavior. No wonder Musharraf only needed basic proof and both were delivered strong message.

Hope Arabs will show their usual tolerance and will not mind few off tangent posts!

Yessir,

That was the air chief marshall who rented his place to Saab.

 

[Super Falcon]

Very good induction a new jewel to saudi air arm they have very usefull thinkers saudis along side E 3 santry both do hell of a job

 

[Pakistani shaheens]

looks very pretty and shiny
by the way how much does a single unit cost?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

We paid for ours using MoD budget, years back.