Saudi Arabia to vet use of Prophet's sayings to counter extremism

[The Sandman]

RIYADH (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia, the birthplace of Islam, is to monitor interpretations of the Prophet Mohammad’s teachings to prevent them being used to justify violence or terrorism, the Culture and Information Ministry has said.

In a decree, King Salman ordered the establishment of an authority to scrutinize uses of the “hadith” - accounts of the sayings, actions or habits of the Prophet that are used by preachers and jurists to support teachings and edicts on all aspects of life.

The ministry said late on Tuesday that the body’s aim would be to “eliminate fake and extremist texts and any texts that contradict the teachings of Islam and justify the committing of crimes, murders and terrorist acts”.

The body will be based in Medina and overseen by a council of senior Islamic scholars from around the world, according to the decree. The ministry offered no specific details of how it would work in practice.

Islamist groups such as Islamic State and al Qaeda have used interpretations of hadiths - numbered in the thousands and pored over by scholars for centuries - to justify violence and to urge supporters to carry out attacks.

Saudi Arabia’s approach to religious doctrine is important because of its symbolic position as the birthplace of Islam, while its oil exports allow it to fund mosques abroad.

Its ultra-conservative Wahhabi clergy have been close to the Al Saud dynasty since the mid-18th century, offering it Islamic legitimacy in return for control over mosques and universities.

The traditional Wahhabi doctrine favors a strict version of Islamic law and a return to early Muslim practices, and views Shi‘ites as heretics.

But senior clergy have denounced militant Islamist doctrines such as those of al Qaeda or Islamic State, while the government, which vets clerics in Saudi Arabia’s 70,000 mosques, has sacked many for encouraging violence or sedition.

Foreign Minister Adel al-Jubeir said last month that thousands of extremist clerics had been dismissed, although he gave no timeframe.

The government has begun to promote an alternative narrative of Saudi identity that keeps Wahhabism as a central focus, but still allows secular themes such as nationalism and cultural heritage that predates Islam to shine through.

The ministry said the body would serve Islam by creating “a solid scientific reference to vet and verify the authenticity of hadiths”, which are second in importance only to the Koran in Islam. It did not say what form the reference would take.

The decree issued by the king, whose official title is Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques - Islam’s most revered places in Mecca and Medina - said the body would be chaired by Sheikh Mohammed bin Hassan al-Sheikh, a member of the Council of Senior Scholars, which serves as Saudi Arabia’s highest religious body.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ts-sayings-to-counter-extremism-idUSKBN1CN1SZ

 

[The Sandman]

@I.R.A @Hell hound @Zibago @django it's a v.good step imo

 

[Falcon29]

So are we getting our own New Testament now?

 

[Sinnerman108]

This is an excellent step, and something that was long due.

I hope that this goes on at full speed, and anyone who is naughty is punished well.

Muslim faith is on God, his prophet, and his book.

That is where the buck stops.

Everything else can be challenged.

 

[BATMAN]

Reuters seems to have hurt the most.. ouch!
hardwork of 2 centuries is at risk of lost.

 

[Falcon29]

@I.R.A @Hell hound @Zibago @django it's a v.good step imo

It's a good step if you support revising history and adopting mental gymnastics approach to religious doctrine. There are some things that happened back then that in the modern day people are not comfortable with. Just accept that society and norms were different. Teach people that in the modern day some of those past norms can be abolished because those norms only came about in context of a situation back then. We need to agree on this as a Muslim people as a whole. For example I am in support of abolishing concubines in war, because the only solution then to deal with captive women is to either marry them or put them in a market. Whatever the reasons, we could discuss that forever, but I can make my case as to why I believe that should be abolished.

Muslim people should be the decision makers, not a government with an political agenda. I don't want Saudi Arabia or Iran to dictate to me what Islam is. For them Islam has to be synonymous with their political agenda and social views, it is not based on the doctrine as a religion or faith. I also don't want a group of scholars that Saudi Arabia or any other governments arranged that have ties with governments. We need scholars that democratically elected by the people and these subjects should be for the general masses to discuss.

I will tell you that I object to altering text or disregarding portions of it, that all must be kept and remain in original state. We can work on our values as humans which is the problem here. Extremism is not the only injustice occurring in the world. We can't pick and choose which injustices we prefer and which we don't. Either go all in or it will not succeed.

 

[war&peace]

Well, it will fail because KSA has its own agenda and there is no unanimity about it. Only a body of scholars that has participation from all the sects can do that.

 

[BATMAN]

This is an excellent step, and something that was long due.

I hope that this goes on at full speed, and anyone who is naughty is punished well.

Muslim faith is on God, his prophet, and his book.

That is where the buck stops.

Everything else can be challenged.

Hadees is a tool which enemies of Islam have used against Islam.
Some times I read technically flawed narrations, associated with prophet pbuh.
I read one technically flawed narration moments ago, associated with hazarat Ali karam ulla.
Well anyhow, now Pakistanis can print their own ahadees which will be valid only in Pakistan and we can declare rest of the Islamic world as ...........

There are some things that happened back then that in the modern day people are not comfortable with. Just accept that society and norms were different. Teach people that in the modern day some of those past norms can be abolished because those norms only came about in context of a situation back then.

So... can we tell the people that messengers of Allah had beard... just because there was no gillette company!?

Actually NO.

In Pakistan brainwashing system is so strong that it has become a norm. its done in houses, its done on tv, its done in news, its done in street and now its done on social media.

What we have in the end is an educated idiot, who fear not while abusing or even killing a human being, in the name of messenger of Allah.

So are we getting our own New Testament now?

When people start killing and cursing each other and in some cases themselves... and in the end getting awarded the title of shaheed.. is a state what we call inhuman.
I consider it blasphemy to associate any such beliefs or emotions with messenger of Allah!

 

[Falcon29]

So... can we tell the people that messengers of Allah had bearded... just because there was no gillette company!?

Actually NO.

Can't understand what point you're trying to make.

What we have in the end is an educated idiot, who fear not while abusing or even killing a human being, in the name of messenger of Allah.

Yes, and that is in the end an ethical crisis in character. Abolishing text is not going to solve that. Working on the ethical flaws in our characters will. And those flaws don't pertain only to radical clerics.

 

[Gomig-21]

It's a good step if you support revising history and adopting mental gymnastics approach to religious doctrine. There are some things that happened back then that in the modern day people are not comfortable with. Just accept that society and norms were different. Teach people that in the modern day some of those past norms can be abolished because those norms only came about in context of a situation back then. We need to agree on this as a Muslim people as a whole. For example I am in support of abolishing concubines in war, because the only solution then to deal with captive women is to either marry them or put them in a market. Whatever the reasons, we could discuss that forever, but I can make my case as to why I believe that should be abolished.

Muslim people should be the decision makers, not a government with an political agenda. I don't want Saudi Arabia or Iran to dictate to me what Islam is. For them Islam has to be synonymous with their political agenda and social views, it is not based on the doctrine as a religion or faith. I also don't want a group of scholars that Saudi Arabia or any other governments arranged that have ties with governments. We need scholars that democratically elected by the people and these subjects should be for the general masses to discuss.

I will tell you that I object to altering text or disregarding portions of it, that all must be kept and remain in original state. We can work on our values as humans which is the problem here. Extremism is not the only injustice occurring in the world. We can't pick and choose which injustices we prefer and which we don't. Either go all in or it will not succeed.

Very well put, my friend.

My only difference to what you said would be that there is a need to put the wackos in check. Their skewed interpretations must be challenged in some way. What that way should be, is a challenge in of itself.

 

[BATMAN]

Can't understand what point you're trying to make.

Just read your words, which I quoted.

Yes, and that is in the end an ethical crisis in character. Abolishing text is not going to solve that. Working on the ethical flaws in our characters will. And those flaws don't pertain only to radical clerics.

As long you have capital punishment for Blasphemy what ethics are we teaching!
We need to rename blasphemy law or merge it into law and order, disturbing peace etc. and capital punishment should be only for terrorists.

 

[nang2]

book fight.

 

[Falcon29]

Just read your words, which I quoted.

Well I suggested against mental gymnastics, and your response made me assume that you think I'm implying we should adopt that method. I'm not. But, the greater point is, Muslim world is not good at providing alternative for ideologically oriented people. Some people have attachment to ideology more than others, especially those in the east. And some people are seeing hardline groups as lesser evil. Then you have many more factors in play, such them having nothing to lose. Or arms being easily acquired. Or poor security and intelligence. Or Muslim inclination to worry about what Islam might become(thus it's more common in Muslim majority nations). We can decrease terrorism levels to that of Europe, with more efficiency and measures. It's good the steps we're taking.

However, we cannot decrease the number of distressed people who have attachment to ideology. Which is why need to provide an proper Islamic alternative for them. And by proper, the last thing I mean is the interpretations or rulings or viewpoints. I am referring to the human values that God appreciates. And to an extent the commandments. So fearing God, don't commit crime, don't steal, don't be corrupt, don't bully, don't oppress, be just, be honest, etc.... If people see these values in a government or group of scholars or people, this something they can safely embrace as opposed to what we have currently.

As for those you mention who don't fear God, they are indeed wicked people. Something that carelessly encourages killing or oppression or any other wrongdoings, doesn't fear God. This is why God capitalizes on fear, because in our human nature it can set us straight. When nobody fears God, the trends in the world are determined by whatever is convenient and efficient to a set group of people and has no boundaries.

Anyhow, I gotta go, but hope you get the point I'm trying to get across.

 

[MultaniGuy]

A good move.

 

[BATMAN]

A good move.

Real deal:
In a decree, King Salman ordered the establishment of an authority to scrutinize uses of the “hadith” - accounts of the sayings, actions or habits of the Prophet that are used by preachers and jurists to support teachings and edicts on all aspects of life.

The ministry said late on Tuesday that the body’s aim would be to “eliminate fake and extremist texts and any texts that contradict the teachings of Islam and justify the committing of crimes, murders and terrorist acts”.

subject reads:
abolish