Saudi Arabia to supply urea on $100million on credit

[GEMINI]

Using urea fertilizers as an ingredient in IEDs depends on the nitrate component as well. There is a coating that is applied as a final step to the granules that prevents such uses.[/QUOTE

Urea is not an explosive in pure form until mixed with nitric acid/oxidizer to form urea nitrate. The coatings after granulation and additives before granulation/prilling are Urea formaldehyde generally. Which does not change the explosive nature but crushing strength rather. SABIC uses the same at all their facilities in JUBAIL. Even if it prevents its use an explosive(not a chance) still coating product with this is a minor issue and most of the Pakistani plants do that or can do that in a matter of a week.

As far as nitric acid is concerned, there are only two industrial manufacturing units both owned by one company. There may be any small unit , and one is there with POF (if i recall my memory correctly).

The issue of fertilizer being used in IED in Afghanistan was with ammonium nitrate fertilizer produced in Pakistan. This fertilizer comes in the form of Calcium ammonium nitrate. Furthermore AN is sold for producing surgical gases. An American official group visited one of the fertilizer projects making all these products and suggested some color additives. Which was denied by the company.

To me the current outage of gas for fertilizer plants is both financial and resource mismanagement. These units are still provided gas but not continuously. Furthermore units taking gas from Mari gas are still operative 100%. Our government is not able to finance purification and connection of new gas reservoirs. These fertilizer plants have formed a consortium to finance a separate gas line for them only. I think we should not relate this thing to American pressure.

 

[Norboo]

Urea can be used to make urea nitrate, a high explosive that is used industrially and as part of some improvised explosive devices.

If the TTP manages to lay hands on even some part of it, that would be bad news!

 

[GEMINI]

Yes, but the problem is the fertilizer is used worldwide and available in every market. So why not try to control the other part(nitric acid). Which shall be easier but not simple. Else there is a hell lot of other options that the bad guys may use.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Yes, but the problem is the fertilizer is used worldwide and available in every market. So why not try to control the other part(nitric acid). Which shall be easier but not simple. Else there is a hell lot of other options that the bad guys may use.

Hell Indian chemicals are smuggled in Pakistan for usage in explosives, if they can find their way in Pakistan which has plenty of fertilizer available to be exported to Afghanistan for bomb making, how can't chemicals from other countries reach Afghanistan and used for explosives.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/images/2009/10/29/20091029_28.jpg

Pakistani militants can't find Pakistani fertilizer in their own country for bomb making that they require Indian smuggled one, but militants inside Afghanistan are finding Pak products, strange.

US when has nothing to do, it uses Pakistan as a scapegoat for its incompetence.

 

[VCheng]

Hell Indian chemicals are smuggled in Pakistan for usage in explosives, if they can find their way in Pakistan which has plenty of fertilizer available to be exported to Afghanistan for bomb making, how can't chemicals from other countries reach Afghanistan and used for explosives.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/images/2009/10/29/20091029_28.jpg

Pakistani militants can't find Pakistani fertilizer in their own country for bomb making that they require Indian smuggled one, but militants inside Afghanistan are finding Pak products, strange.

US when has nothing to do, it uses Pakistan as a scapegoat for its incompetence.

Fertilizer output of any plant has a unique chemical signature. I hope you are aware of this fact.

 

[Kashmiri Nationalist]

Fortunately Pak-Saudi relations are not managed by 20ish old emotional boys.
Here in Saudi Arabia we are enjoying their hospitality and friendship 100%.

Unfortunatly that hospitality does not extend to equal rights, or even citizenship. Socially, South Asians are looked down upon. Neither is Saudi Arabia any where close (to put it subtly) to what Jinnah envisioned as an "Islamic State". But that is for another topic.

OT: Trade and business occurs, no big deal here. As you can see it's "on credit", the same as any loan -- could be from the US, Germany or France. Pakistan should've branched out into some African nations and purchased urea on loan in smaller quantities, from several countries.

 

[GEMINI]

Fertilizer output of any plant has a unique chemical signature. I hope you are aware of this fact.

Please explain.

 

[VCheng]

Please explain.

Some information is not for public dissemination.

 

[GEMINI]

Some information is not for public dissemination.

Ha Ha. Thanks for your answer. Fertilizers are really a secret business. Keep playing.

 

[VCheng]

Ha Ha. Thanks for your answer. Fertilizers are really a secret business. Keep playing.

You are welcome!

One would be surprised just how detailed a spectroscopic analysis can be these days, but please don't let that bother you.

 

[Hyde]

oh yeh kya karzay le le ke zindagi guzaar rahay hain

Is PPP government ne to poori duniya main sharminda kar ke rakha howa hai Pakistaniyoun ko... Musharraf dor main to phir bhi kuch khayr thee

 

[GEMINI]

You are welcome!

One would be surprised just how detailed a spectroscopic analysis can be these days, but please don't let that bother you.

You could have answered the same earlier. All i wanted was to learn more, if you had anything new.Spectroscopic analysis can give the very detailed picture, but depending upon operating conditions of a plant this signature shall never be the same.

What shall the same analysis tell if i blend products from two or more plants?

 

[VCheng]

You could have answered the same earlier. All i wanted was to learn more, if you had anything new.Spectroscopic analysis can give the very detailed picture, but depending upon operating conditions of a plant this signature shall never be the same.

What shall the same analysis tell if i blend products from two or more plants?

The effects of operating conditions and blending can also be sorted out quite accurately. Indeed, they add to the accuracy of the conclusions quite often.

 

[GEMINI]

By spectroscopy or any method it is possible to find any atoms or molecules present and conc. But if i take solid urea or ammonium nitrate product from two or more sources and mix them in solid phase, it shall not be possible for any body to find the source of those materials even if you have original product data library. Furthermore consider today a urea plant is operating with no or low corrosion giving low iron content in product, In days the corrosion rates may pickup(and it actually does) changing iron levels considerably and this thing shall vanish after maintenance. You shall not be able to map such changes using spectroscopy and still identify the source of product.

 

[VCheng]

By spectroscopy or any method it is possible to find any atoms or molecules present and conc. But if i take solid urea or ammonium nitrate product from two or more sources and mix them in solid phase, it shall not be possible for any body to find the source of those materials even if you have original product data library. Furthermore consider today a urea plant is operating with no or low corrosion giving low iron content in product, In days the corrosion rates may pickup(and it actually does) changing iron levels considerably and this thing shall vanish after maintenance. You shall not be able to map such changes using spectroscopy and still identify the source of product.

So you think, and I am fine with that, of course.