Saudi Arabia joins the killer drone arms race

[Beast]

1- Those systems were never actively tried during the bid.

2- That "point giving" thingy takes only two factors seriously. Money and ToT. Not Tech and reliability.

3- The bid is not over yet.

4- The final decision taker is the minister of National defence and the PM himself.

5- TSK (Turkish Armed Forces) was against the Chinese systems from the beginning.

6- At 2008, Everyone thought that the military was going for the Arrow-2.

7- European bidders reevaluated their offer. There are rumors that the final choice would be Aster-30.

8- US has plans to deploy THAAD in Turkey at future as part of NATO Missile Defence Shield.

Let's wait and see the answer.

 

[jaunty]

You have a point @jaunty but then again, we have a very special relationship with these two countries and they do things with us that normally don't make sense to the rest of the World. When was the last time some country head came to India and dropped 1.5 Billion USD just as a token of love and Friendship, eh ?

If something like that happened in India, that wouldn't make me proud. No self respecting nation should be proud of taking handouts. Besides everything comes with some kind of strings attached to it; there ain't no such thing as a free lunch. You also want HSR in Pakistan but the world doesn't run according to your whims and fancies. It is geopolitics, not love and affection. You backed out from the Iran pipeline and the Saudis are rewarding you for that, just like people reward a faithful dog. Wake up and smell the coffee.

 

[Pakistanisage]

If something like that happened in India, that wouldn't make me proud. No self respecting nation should be proud of taking handouts. Besides everything comes with some kind of strings attached to it; there ain't no such thing as a free lunch. You also want HSR in Pakistan but the world doesn't run according to your whims and fancies. It is geopolitics, not love and affection. You backed out from the Iran pipeline and the Saudis are rewarding you for that, just like people reward a faithful dog. Wake up and smell the coffee.

I have no problem if my Brother helps me out if I am running through a rough Patch.

You are back to being the Odious Indian Troller again.

Do not ever quote me again because I do not ever want to have a conversation with an Arrogant Prick like your self.

Now Shoo away you slimy DOG and stay away from me.

Capiche , you slime ball ?

 

[jaunty]

I have no problem if my Brother helps me out if I am running through a rough Patch.

There is no brotherly love in geopolitics. It's always give and take. You backed out from a deal with Iran, you get your reward. Also learn the word "analogy" before getting all worked up.

 

[Pakistanisage]

Listen you low life , what part of my statement " do not ever quote me again " is your feeble brain having difficulty understanding.

DO NOT QUOTE ME OR TRY TO HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH ME.

 

[jaunty]

Listen you low life , what part of my statement " do not ever quote me again " is your feeble brain having difficulty understanding.

DO NOT QUOTE ME OR TRY TO HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH ME.

Calm down. Don't take this forum too seriously, not good for your health at this age.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Wing Loongs shall fulfill your current counter insurgency needs (since you have a crap load of Apache Longbows), though i am not a fan of its current EOTS. KD-10 Missiles and its small diameter guided bombs cut it so far.

KSA should acquire Anka as well, have the Chinese and Turks develop a tactical data link and use both UAVs in a buddy mode, exactly as Pakistan is using its Falco->Shahpar->Burraq trio.

We aren't using China's drone for countering insurgencies to the borders, but for drug traffickings, eliminating rouge elements attempting to sneak into our borders.

We are getting the Anka's as well. Last year, we placed an order for ~10 Anka's while developing 3 more ( including an armed version of our own )

Indeed, China UCAV is chosen becos the US do not trust the Saudi and UAE or pressure from Israel therefore US combat armed drone sales not aprroved. But Wing Loong still has its merit compare to other UCAV beside the US.

From the mouth of China AVIC president during last year interview, he mention during a trial test of UCAV for a potential customer(Probably UAE). A number of foreign UCAV were put to trial test and to prove its capabilities. The UCAV are required to knock out a fast moving bait on ground setup by the potential customer. All the foreign UCAV are unable to kill it except Wing Loong of AVIC whose missile scored a direct hit. The potential customer(UAE representative)was highly impressed and immediately put down an order.

Same as China HQ-9 SAM bidding for Turkey air defence deal. Out of all competitors, HQ-9 scored the highest point in the trial test set by the Turkish examiner. S-300 and Patriot all chicken out when Turkish examiner wanted to set their scenario for the missile test. Only HQ-9 is willing to participate all demand set by Turkish representative to test out their SAM.

Indeed, China UCAV is chosen becos the US do not trust the Saudi and UAE or pressure from Israel therefore US combat armed drone sales not aprroved. But Wing Loong still has its merit compare to other UCAV beside the US.

Israel has nothing to do with it. The US is rejecting to sell us the drones because the Saudi Intelligence will be using them against none-Terrorist activities to the border. What the US wants is having its drones operated by the Military.

The UAE is buying the Predators. Last year, we signed a MOU with the US to procure the Predators for the RSF.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

In this case a joint-venture is not practical for China. On the technological front neither Saudi nor Pakistan can offer anything to China. Monetarily Saudi can contribute but China also has a lot of money, so they don't really need the Saudi money to develop it. So it will not go beyond a buyer-seller relationship imho.

The whole world doesn't function this way. Otherwise, India wouldn't have introduced a dramatically different version of the SU-30 to what other countries operate. Thanks to India's billions, they bought a hell of a combination of a Russo-Franco-Israeli technologies - in addition to theirs. Same goes to Pakistan, KSA's military industry is modest compared to these two though.

The point is that the Chinese might not benefit militarily from such project, but the other two most definitely will.

If something like that happened in India, that wouldn't make me proud. No self respecting nation should be proud of taking handouts. Besides everything comes with some kind of strings attached to it; there ain't no such thing as a free lunch. You also want HSR in Pakistan but the world doesn't run according to your whims and fancies. It is geopolitics, not love and affection. You backed out from the Iran pipeline and the Saudis are rewarding you for that, just like people reward a faithful dog. Wake up and smell the coffee.

If something like that happened in India

It did happen to India before. It took loans and aids. Actually, everybody does.

No self respecting nation should be proud of taking handouts

What you are referring wasn't a handout at all.

You backed out from the Iran pipeline and the Saudis are rewarding you for that, just like people reward a faithful dog. Wake up and smell the coffee

As a matter of fact, Iran walked off the project out of the blue:

Iran cancels Pakistan gas pipeline loan - thenews.com.pk

Let just try to state fact rather than blatant lies.

There is no brotherly love in geopolitics. It's always give and take. You backed out from a deal with Iran, you get your reward. Also learn the word "analogy" before getting all worked up.

No body is forcing you to buy his take. To some, the USSR was the Evil Empire while to others it was a long-standing ally including your country.

The gentleman @Pakistanisage is a former PAF Veteran who visited these countries many times, which helped him to forge out his political beliefs.

 

[Pakistanisage]

Thanks for the kind words Brother @Yzd Khalifa....

 

[jaunty]

The point is that the Chinese might not benefit militarily from such project, but the other two most definitely will.

I know that, that's why it was a one way street. You just repeated my point. China does not benefit in any way from such a cooperation.

It did happen to India before. It took loans and aids. Actually, everybody does.

Loans are different. But nobody is proud of handouts, we are certainly not. Yes India is a poor country and we have taken aids but we don't flaunt them.

What you are referring wasn't a handout at all.

What was it?

As a matter of fact, Iran walked off the project out of the blue:

Iran cancels Pakistan gas pipeline loan - thenews.com.pk

Let just try to state fact rather than blatant lies.

Did you even read the news or is it your comprehension problem? Iran had already built their side of pipeline as they were damn serious about it, Pakistan was not, besides many think that the Saudi handout has a part to play. http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/SOU-02-210314.html

No body is forcing you to buy his take. To some, the USSR was the Evil Empire while to others it was a long-standing ally including your country.

The gentleman @Pakistanisage is a former PAF Veteran who visited these countries many times, which helped him to forge out his political beliefs.

That's why I disagreed with what he said and I don't need anyone's certificate from you.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

I know that, that's why it was a one way street. You just repeated my point. China does not benefit in any way from such a cooperation.

Actually, you intentionally omitted or perhaps failed to mention the kind of benefit China may get by having such project, to say economically the least.

Last time Pakistan and China teamed up in a JV, it attracted several countries, some of which have already held talks about the possibilities to procure the JF-17.

Yes India is a poor country and we have taken aids

No body said India is poor. India is a great country, and is, by definition, a rich, economic-power. However, a considerable portion of its people do happen to be poor due it the overpopulation crisis India has.

@anonymus @Cherokee

Did you even read the news or is it your comprehension problem?

This is the second you air this kind of reaction to my post.

And I ask you to read Iran's statement where it says that Iran isn't obliged to fund the construction of Pakistan's pipeline.

many think that the Saudi handout has a part to play

Those who think that the Saudi loan has a thing to do with it must have aced their reading classes with an A with its plus ...

Iran withdraw its offer, the project was called off, and all.

This will set the record straight regarding what you consider " a handout " and what the rest of the world took the fact that it was a loan for granted:

Saudi Arabia loans Pakistan $1.5 billion to shore up economy| Reuters

Maybe you do have some sort of a problem with Pakistan, I hope it won't reach to the level where you would produce peculiar argument such as this.

That's why I disagreed with what he said and I don't need anyone's certificate from you

Then learn how to disagree in a civil way, not by harassing people, analogizing them with dogs or else.

Practically speaking, I was doing you a favor by shedding a better light on how did he forge out his opinion, which makes sense. Otherwise, no one gives a fuzz about your " cats and dogs " poor attitude.

I know that, that's why it was a one way street. You just repeated my point. China does not benefit in any way from such a cooperation.




Loans are different. But nobody is proud of handouts, we are certainly not. Yes India is a poor country and we have taken aids but we don't flaunt them.


What was it?




Did you even read the news or is it your comprehension problem? Iran had already built their side of pipeline as they were damn serious about it, Pakistan was not, besides many think that the Saudi handout has a part to play. http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/SOU-02-210314.html



That's why I disagreed with what he said and I don't need anyone's certificate from you.

 

[cabatli_53]

1- Those systems were never actively tried during the bid.

2- That "point giving" thingy takes only two factors seriously. Money and ToT. Not Tech and reliability.

3- The bid is not over yet.

4- The final decision taker is the minister of National defence and the PM himself.

5- TSK (Turkish Armed Forces) was against the Chinese systems from the beginning.

6- At 2008, Everyone thought that the military was going for the Arrow-2.

7- European bidders reevaluated their offer. There are rumors that the final choice would be Aster-30.

8- US has plans to deploy THAAD in Turkey at future as part of NATO Missile Defence Shield.

The most interesting part of the story that Turkey's leading institutes Roketsan/Aselsan have already been pressing government to develop domestic long range SAM missiles. To fill the gap during development period, They offers to purchase some batteries of foreign SAM's as stop gap solution.

Besides, I think Chinese S-400 order may change direction of tender as well.

BTW, At last reportage, TAI manager points out that Anka-TP will have a take off weight around 6 tonnes.

Reaper: 4700kg
Eitan: 4600kg

 

[jaunty]

Actually, you intentionally omitted or perhaps failed to mention the kind of benefit China may get by having such project, to say economically the least.

I did not fail to mention that. I said they won't benefit from such a JV. Tell me why they would, if you think otherwise. At the end of the day we are discussing a hypothetical scenario presented by a professional troll. I disagree with what he said, if you agree with him good for you.

And I ask you to read Iran's statement where it says that Iran isn't obliged to fund the construction of Pakistan's pipeline.

Of course they are not obligated. Why would they be. They have already spent $2 bn to build their side. What else do you want from them? It is Pakistan's duty to build the pipeline on its side. The deadline was 2014, they missed it by 3-4 years. Don't defend the indefensible.

Those who think that the Saudi loan has a thing to do with it must have aced their reading classes with an A with its plus ...

Iran withdraw its offer, the project was called off, and all.

This will set the record straight regarding what you consider " a handout " and what the rest of the world took the fact that it was a loan for granted:

Saudi Arabia loans Pakistan $1.5 billion to shore up economy| Reuters

Maybe you do have some sort of a problem with Pakistan, I hope it won't reach to the level where you would produce peculiar argument such as this.

Saudi's loan/aid is not free. If they were concerned about Pakistan why don't KSA finance the pipeline to help reduce Pakistan's energy needs. In geopolitics, there is no free lunch. Don't play naive.

Then learn how to disagree in a civil way, not by harassing people, analogizing them with dogs or else.

Practically speaking, I was doing you a favor by shedding a better light on how did he forge out his opinion, which makes sense. Otherwise, no one gives a fuzz about your " cats and dogs " poor attitude.

The professional troll is a foulmouthed person, I have no respect for him. Besides anyone who understands English would know what an analogy is. Report to the mods, if it's offensive. Don't speak on someone else's behalf. GO through this thread to witness his behavior, High Speed Trains in Pakistan

 

[Desert Fox]

You have a point @jaunty but then again, we have a very special relationship with these two countries and they do things with us that normally don't make sense to the rest of the World. When was the last time some country head came to India and dropped 1.5 Billion USD just as a token of love and Friendship, eh ?

There is a lot of business we do with China also that makes little Financial sense on the Surface but our two countries rarely say NO too each other. If Pakistan needs something , China will try its best to make it happen.

Besides, Is there really such a thing as ANYONE or ANY COUNTRY having TO MUCH MONEY ?

Depends in who's pockets that money was "dropped"; the people's or the politicians??

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Of course they are not obligated. Why would they be. They have already spent $2 bn to build their side. What else do you want from them? It is Pakistan's duty to build the pipeline on its side. The deadline was 2014, they missed it by 3-4 years. Don't defend the indefensible.

No body said they are. You stated earlier that Pakistan dropped off the deal because of KSA. I replied to you, stating that Iran backed off at the last moment to fund the pipeline ( something which committed itself to ) ..

Saudi's loan/aid is not free.

Yes, it is a soft loan. You, on the other hand, argued it is a " hand-out " would you please provide a materialistic evidence to back up this word of yours? Everybody on earth calls it a loan, because that what it really is.

If they were concerned about Pakistan why don't KSA finance the pipeline

Pakistan is welcome to use it for that.

I did not fail to mention that. I said they won't benefit from such a JV. Tell me why they would, if you think otherwise. At the end of the day we are discussing a hypothetical scenario presented by a professional troll. I disagree with what he said, if you agree with him good for you.




Of course they are not obligated. Why would they be. They have already spent $2 bn to build their side. What else do you want from them? It is Pakistan's duty to build the pipeline on its side. The deadline was 2014, they missed it by 3-4 years. Don't defend the indefensible.




Saudi's loan/aid is not free. If they were concerned about Pakistan why don't KSA finance the pipeline to help reduce Pakistan's energy needs. In geopolitics, there is no free lunch. Don't play naive.



The professional troll is a foulmouthed person, I have no respect for him. Besides anyone who understands English would know what an analogy is. Report to the mods, if it's offensive. Don't speak on someone else's behalf. GO through this thread to witness his behavior, High Speed Trains in Pakistan