Saudi Arabia is having second thoughts in joining BRICS

[indushek]

Saudi Arabia is a sovereign country and can make its own decisions, it normally does.

Question is what BRICS has to offer to Saudi Arabia? Is this a feel-good bloc? An experiment?

This is what happens when one starts to completely divulg,e from original objectives.

At it core Brics was formed to

Cooperation, development, and influence in world affairs are at the heart of the BRICS goals. The following are a few of the main BRICS goals: Economic cooperation: encouraging trade, cooperation and growth among members, as well as improving BRICS economies' access to markets.

Back in 2009 the original Members Brazil Russia India and China, all were on a steady growth path. Relations with West in general were good, and these four came together to further develop cooperation on different matters especially on trade and access to markets. Basically economic cooperation.

What is the situation today?

Brazil no longer posts growth numbers
Russia has failed to innovate and still relies on military sales, Gas and Oil sales along with fertilizers
China has slowed down economically, and faces internal turmoil
Only India has maintained the growth trajectory

Point to be noted though is that, all these four including South Africa who came in later are heavily dependent on Western Markets and Investments. So any anti Western talk will crash this badly

Present status:

China wanting to break free of Western hegemony and trying to assert itself, wants to make this anti West (not overtly though). Brazil and India will not allow this, which will risk their access to Western markets and tech.

Russia due to the War and freezing of its funds, desperately wants to build a alternate to Swift and Dollar. This is impossible given no other currency has the convertibility of Dollar.

A export based economy, a fossil fuel based economy cannot replace a Innovation based economy.

All members are pulling the Org in opposite directions.

 

[LeGenD]

Many (most?) countries are tired of the current western dominated political framework & wish to move towards an alternative world order.

It’s not that they seek to be hostile to the west but they will naturally use BRICS as leverage and a safety net.

All the while they will create frameworks & structures to shape the world in a way that they believe to be fairer to them than it currently is.

Of course the western ego & arrogance will most definitely see anything that reduces their control & domination as hostile, as they did with Imran Khan.

Western economic system is strong due to its global reach and the capacity to cater to the needs of consumers around the world in unparalleled ways.
Consumers do not care about bloc politics when using a financial system that works for them.
Consumers care about a financial system that can provide for them.

Bloc politics is a topic mostly in forums or speculators because this could be a new investment avenue for some.

I do not think that BRICS can threaten Western economic system in a significant way but it can provide opportunities to interested countries to create a framework for trade with each other in a currency other than USD. But there are already several world currencies in use. Problem is that each market is different from the other and there is no true substitute for the American market out there in view of how open it is in comparison to others.

BRICS can reduce reliance on USD for inter-country trade but many countries are doing this already.
BRICS sounds like hot air, therefore.

If any country wants to join it, entirely up to it. Doesn't make much difference.

I simply find BRICS hype out of place.

People talk about collapse of USD as if this is a joke. Go get some education please (figuratively).

 

[ARMalik]

Saudi Foreign Minister Faisal bin Farhan said today that Saudi Arabia will consider whether to join the BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) group of emerging economies once it gets "the details" on "the nature of membership", after the bloc admitted six more countries on Thursday.

"We are awaiting details from the group on the invitation, the nature of the membership and its elements. Based on that and the internal measures, we will take the appropriate decision," Bin Farhan was quoted as saying by private Saudi television Al Arabiya.

Saudi Arabia says it will study whether to join BRICS after getting "the details"

Saudi Foreign Minister Faisal bin Farhan said today that Saudi Arabia will consi...

www.atalayar.com

Atalayar is a European mouth piece spilling our propaganda.

 

[OIO]

There are still four months left, and there will be a period of relative relaxation in Sino-US relations.

 

[EternalMortal]

Western economic system is strong due to its global reach and the capacity to cater to the needs of consumers around the world in unparalleled ways.
Consumers do not care about bloc politics when using a financial system that works for them.
Consumers care about a financial system that can provide for them.

Countries aren’t necessarily looking to abandon western financial system completely but to create an alternative especially in trade between BRICS members/supporters.

But there are already several world currencies in use. Problem is that each market is different from the other and there is no true substitute for the American market out there in view of how open it is in comparison to others.

You need to consider that technology, especially blockchain, has evolved a lot & is continuing to evolve . Your argument will no longer be applicable in near future.

Project mBridge: experimenting with a multi-CBDC platform for cross-border payments

Project mBridge experiments with a multiple-central bank digital currency (multi-CBDC) common platform for wholesale cross-border payments. It seeks to solve some of the key inefficiencies of cross-border payments, such as high costs, low speed and transparency, and operational complexities.

www.bis.org

BRICS PAY

Decentralized multicurrency digital international payments system

www.brics-pay.com

BRICS can reduce reliance on USD for inter-country trade but many countries are doing this already.

Not really. “De-dollarization” is really only at the beginning stages. For now, trade in USD still dominates those countries’ trade.

 

[Azadkashmir]

I guess Saudi crown prince got a call from White House yesterday.

they must have rang and said hey do you remeber such a time ago. Yeah mbs we got those photos of you and him in compromising position. If it leaks out to public it can be bad for your Muslim reputation, but if you remove yourself from bric then all be ok consider photo deleted.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

Brics was invented by a western funds manager. Those countries have nothing in common except be overpopulated in case of China and India. Until recently the group is irrelevant and unknown.

That has changed. Putin and Xi now want to make the group into an anti western bloc. They have own agenda. They can spread more propaganda and cheap rhetoric on broader audience.

China and Russia are in APEC along with America. APEC has the purpose of streamlining trade among its members.

BRICS has significance now probably because relations of both have soured with America.

 

[Viet]

China and Russia are in APEC along with America. APEC has the purpose of streamlining trade among its members.

BRICS has significance now probably because relations of both have soured with America.

Brics was invented by a western funds manager as a bait to lure western money into China, India and those in Brics. Western money. If Brics now is used as cheap anti west propaganda tool you think the west will continue to pour money into China, India?

Of course not. The money flow will stop. Those in Brics can eat their self created propaganda at breakfast, lunch and dinner. Yes those Brics plus can trade among themselves. nobody stops them.

 

[BHAN85]

KSA doesnt need a economic BRICS, it needs a military kind of BRICS.

 

[kingQamaR]

BRICS countries has nothing in common.
This is the same reason euro isn't popular after 30 years. BRICS is anti USA club. China is the leader. China and India both has major boarders disputes. Fail states are eager to join

 

[waz]

US influence here.....

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

Brics was invented by a western funds manager as a bait to lure western money into China, India and those in Brics. Western money. If Brics now is used as cheap anti west propaganda tool you think the west will continue to pour money into China, India?

Of course not. The money flow will stop. Those in Brics can eat their self created propaganda at breakfast, lunch and dinner. Yes those Brics plus can trade among themselves. nobody stops them.

So, what is the purpose of BRICS? Is it to stop trading in US dollars? APEC isn't political. It is technical as it works to remove inefficiencies, adopt common customs and regulations in trading, which is voluntary. If members have bad relations or war, they can block trade items or stop trade altogether.

 

[maithil]

BRICS was always a feel good club for then developing countries. Since then B,R and S have screwed up their economy. Making it anti-west may be Chinese wet dream. With India in it, that will remain a dream. Not that it matters anyway.

 

[Viet]

So, what is the purpose of BRICS? Is it to stop trading in US dollars? APEC isn't political. It is technical as it works to remove inefficiencies, adopt common customs and regulations in trading, which is voluntary. If members have bad relations or war, they can block trade items or stop trade altogether.

Russians, Chinese want to turn Brics from an investment club into an anti west club. If just replacing or supplementing of dollars then they can do it without any fuss. Or they can do like ASEAN countries as just implement cross border payments in own currencies.

 

[LeGenD]

Countries aren’t necessarily looking to abandon western financial system completely but to create an alternative especially in trade between BRICS members/supporters.

No country can abandon Western financial system if it wants to grow and prosper. Unless a country wants to end up virtually isolated and impoverished like North Korea and Venezuela in spite of having natural resources.

You need to consider that technology, especially blockchain, has evolved a lot & is continuing to evolve . Your argument will no longer be applicable in near future.

Project mBridge: experimenting with a multi-CBDC platform for cross-border payments

Project mBridge experiments with a multiple-central bank digital currency (multi-CBDC) common platform for wholesale cross-border payments. It seeks to solve some of the key inefficiencies of cross-border payments, such as high costs, low speed and transparency, and operational complexities.

www.bis.org

BRICS PAY

Decentralized multicurrency digital international payments system

www.brics-pay.com

Speculators will overhype any experiment because of their investments in them - these people want your money for their experiments to work. But those who fall for these calls will suffer when experiments fail. Blockchain is interesting case study.

Critics say a lack of regulation has contributed to volatility in the nascent industry. In 2022, several cryptocurrencies and crypto firms collapsed, including industry heavyweight FTX, causing trillions of dollars in losses.

Cryptocurrencies, Digital Dollars, and the Future of Money

The dizzying rise of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies has created new challenges for governments and central banks. Some are responding by introducing their own digital currencies.

www.cfr.org

The vision of digital cash – of a decentralised payment infrastructure based on cryptography – went awry when blockchain networks became congested in 2017, resulting in soaring transaction fees.[2]

Subsequently, the narrative of digital gold gained momentum, sparking a “crypto rush” that led to one in five adults in the United States and one in ten in Europe speculating on crypto, with a peak market capitalisation of €2.5 trillion.[3]

However, this illusion of crypto-assets serving as easy money and a robust store of value dissipated with the onset of the crypto winter in November 2021. The fall in the price of cryptos (Chart 1) led to a decrease of around €2 trillion worth of crypto assets within less than a year. This caught millions of investors unprepared.[4] An estimated three-quarters of bitcoin users suffered losses on their initial investments at this time.[5]

Paradise lost? How crypto failed to deliver on its promises and what to do about it

The European Central Bank (ECB) is the central bank of the European Union countries which have adopted the euro. Our main task is to maintain price stability in the euro area and so preserve the purchasing power of the single currency.

www.ecb.europa.eu

It is a matter of common sense to not invest in something that is not regulated but there is no shortage of dumb people in the world who are misled by speculators to do their bidding.

But worry not for Digital Dollar is coming - wait for this system to become mainstream. This system will kill crypto-currencies.

Digital Dollar

Some of the most brilliant minds in the world do their homework in Wall Street, these are true economists who will protect themselves and your investments. Blockchain cannot take off until Western financial system embraces it and makes it consumer-friendly. Mark my words.

Not really. “De-dollarization” is really only at the beginning stages. For now, trade in USD still dominates those countries’ trade.

Yes really. De-dollarization is not a new movement and this is why there are multiple world curriences out there.

But De-dollarization is not possible as pointed out in following thread:

Pakistan will not join the BRICS?

Pakistan will not join the BRICS? Countering Western Interests is the goal of BRICS. It wants the de-dollarisation of the currency. BRICS - has Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa a grouping of world economies. For Pakistan it is not clear, what BRICS wants to achieve, the goals...

pdf.defence.pk

The World Is Seeing How the Dollar Really Works

By raising interest rates, the Federal Reserve strengthened the U.S. currency—and revealed its centrality to global order.

foreignpolicy.com

You need to understand how markets work.

Consumers do not want to face a global financial meltdown. This will lead to World War.

2008 economic crisis was also the work of speculators who attempted to kill American Banking system. This move was in part an attempt to restore gold standard. Problem with the gold standard is that it cannot cover each and every asset in use, currency is the best way to do this.

FED has learned a lesson from the 2008 economic crisis and introduced safeguards in its system. FED has recently given some jitters to the entire world to not take "panga." Financial crisis in a number of countries is in part due to these jitters.