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Saudi Arabia and Russia plan deep oil cuts in defiance of US

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Saudi Arabia and Russia plan deep oil cuts in defiance of US​


Riyadh and Moscow seek reductions that would push prices higher at crucial Opec+ meeting

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Opec headquarters in Vienna Opec members’ ministers and the cartel’s partners are rushing to Vienna for what analysts have billed as its most important gathering in years © Lisa Leutner/AP

David Sheppard in Vienna and Derek Brower in San Francisco
18 hours ago


Saudi Arabia is seeking to raise oil prices at a crucial meeting in Vienna, in a move set to anger the US and aid Russia.

Riyadh, Moscow and other producers are poised to announce deep cuts at a meeting of the Opec+ cartel on Wednesday, according to people with knowledge of the discussions.

The size of the cut is still to be agreed but Saudi Arabia and Russia are pushing for reductions of 1mn-2mn barrels a day or more, although these could be phased in over several months. The reductions would probably trigger US countermeasures, analysts said.

“This is not the Saudi Arabia of old and the US has maybe been a little slow or unwilling to acknowledge that in energy matters,” said Raad Alkadiri, an analyst at Eurasia Group.

“If they want a higher oil price, they’ve clearly indicated they’re going to pursue that, even if it results in a tit-for-tat response from the US.”

Wednesday’s meeting of Opec members plus other producers was hastily convened at the cartel’s headquarters in Vienna, with ministers rushing to the Austrian capital for what analysts have billed as the most important gathering in years.

Russia’s top energy official, Alexander Novak, is expected to attend and is understood to support a substantial production cut, with Russia’s oil already trading at a large discount as European buyers have turned away.

A person familiar with the discussions said the cuts would be made from existing production, not quota levels that some Opec+ member countries have been unable to fulfil after years of mismanagement and under-investment.

Such a cut is likely to have a big impact on prices, which fell over the summer in a fillip to the electoral chances of President Joe Biden’s Democrats in US midterm elections next month.

Prices remain high by historical standards and, with the likelihood of a large production cut becoming clear, Brent crude, the international benchmark, rose to $91.50 a barrel on Wednesday — up 8 per cent since last week.

Tensions between Saudi Arabia, the world’s largest crude oil exporter, and the US, the world’s largest consumer, come as analysts warn of a deepening global energy war triggered by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

Riyadh and Moscow have stepped up pursuit of production cuts to halt the slide in oil prices, which have fallen from about $120 a barrel in early June, a drop that has hit Russian state revenues.

The US wants to restrict Russia’s oil revenues to starve its military of funding, making Saudi Arabia’s co-operation with Moscow a source of tension between Riyadh and the White House.

Helima Croft, a former CIA analyst and head of commodities research at RBC Capital Markets, said Russia was likely to turn its attention to disrupting oil markets, having already cut most of its gas supplies to Europe.

“We think more asymmetric, disruptive acts are coming as we head into winter,” she said.

The risk of further US-Saudi strains comes more than two months after Biden travelled to Jeddah to meet Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman and said the kingdom would “take additional steps” to increase oil supplies.

The White House’s efforts to lower US petrol prices included months of shuttle diplomacy with Gulf oil producers, calls for US shale producers to increase supply and releases of oil from emergency stockpiles.

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Just last week, Brett McGurk and Amos Hochstein, two senior Biden administration officials, visited Saudi Arabia in the latest of a series of bilateral meetings.

In August, US energy secretary Jennifer Granholm told refiners to build domestic inventories rather than exporting more fuel. She warned that the US government was otherwise prepared to “consider additional federal requirements or other emergency measures”.

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The Biden administration has been weighing restrictions on exports of refined petroleum products — and has discussed the possibility with oil companies — according to people familiar with the discussions. A significant Opec+ supply cut would increase the likelihood of such a move, the people said.

The US oil industry’s main lobby groups on Tuesday urged Granholm to “disavow” any potential restrictions, warning they would further drive up prices in the US and internationally.

During a briefing with reporters, White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre said the administration would not comment on any Opec+ moves in advance.

She added that the US would focus “on taking every step to ensure markets are sufficiently supplied to meet demand for a growing global economy”. Jean-Pierre said the US was not considering new releases from the country’s Strategic Petroleum Reserve after selling off tens of millions of barrels from the stockpile this year in a bid to reduce energy prices.

But the US and other G7 countries plan to try to impose a price cap on Russian oil sales this year, a move that could lead to lower supplies from the country alongside a tightening of European sanctions against Moscow in December.

“Opec+ producers worry that the price cap planned only for Russia now could later become a precedent for wider use against other producers,” said Bob McNally, head of Rapidan Energy Group and a former adviser to the George W Bush White House.

Amin Nasser, the chief executive of state oil company Saudi Aramco, warned on Tuesday that the market was too focused on the demand impact of a possible recession rather than the limitations of current supply.

Additional reporting by James Politi and Felicia Schwartz in Washington and Myles McCormick in New York.


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What is happening is mind boggling, a quantum shift.

1. The Saudis/ UAE not even picking up the phone when Biden rings.

2. Selling oil to the Chinese in Yuan.

3. Consulting with Russia about a cut in oil production at a time when the US is demanding an increase.

The US has deemed Saudi actions as 'aggressive' towards them. The American's most loyal and servile vassal in the middle east being quantified by the US as an adversary.

We are truly living in exceptional times. ' Decades go by when nothing happens, then in the space of weeks decades go by.'
 
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What is happening is mind boggling, a quantum shift.

1. The Saudis/ UAE not even picking up the phone when Biden rings.

2. Selling oil to the Chinese in Yuan.

3. Consulting with Russia about a cut in oil production at a time when the US is demanding an increase.

The US has deemed Saudi actions as 'aggressive' towards them. The American's most loyal and servile vassal in the middle east being quantified by the US as an adversary.

We are truly living in exceptional times. ' Decades go by when nothing happens, then in the space of weeks decades go by.'
Saudis are making a bet that America won't give up on them now due to Iran/Israel conflict. They need local players on their side to support Israel. Let's see how this strategy works out.
 
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Saudis are making a bet that America won't give up on them now due to Iran/Israel conflict. They need local players on their side to support Israel. Let's see how this strategy works out.
With the Saudis joining Brics and selling oil in non-dollar currencies, I believe that the strategic decision has been made to dump the USA.
 
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What is happening is mind boggling, a quantum shift.

1. The Saudis/ UAE not even picking up the phone when Biden rings.

2. Selling oil to the Chinese in Yuan.

3. Consulting with Russia about a cut in oil production at a time when the US is demanding an increase.

The US has deemed Saudi actions as 'aggressive' towards them. The American's most loyal and servile vassal in the middle east being quantified by the US as an adversary.

We are truly living in exceptional times. ' Decades go by when nothing happens, then in the space of weeks decades go by.'

1665010034784.png



Almost all of KSA's strategic projects are done with China, not the West.

Remember that people from Saudi Arabia created some of the largest and most influential empires in history (largest and most influential in the Muslim world) and are one of the few non-European peoples to have ruled European territory for a very long time. Al-Andalus (Spain, Portugal), Crete (Greece), Sicily (Italy), Malta etc. In fact only the Arabs among all non-Europeans ever ruled Western European territory and their cousins the Phoenicians (related peoples to Arabs) whose origin lies in Eastern Arabia ironically according to ancient Greek scholars.

They left an incredible linguistic, architectural, genetic, culinary, musical, cultural influence that Arab culture had for almost 1000 years and continue to have in Spain, Portugal and by default the entire Latin American world. Even after the Inquisition and forceful removal of any Arab/Islamic influences it failed.

Even agriculture.


In fact most major Spanish cities have names that are of Arabic origin. Almost half of all of Spain's World UNESCO Heritage Sites were built by Arabs too. The most famous being Alhambra which is also one of the most visited places by tourists in Spain.

So they view the West as equals historically speaking albeit the West has had the upper hand for the past 500 years. This is an important physiological thing to notice among Arabs from KSA. They are not obsessed about hiding who they are, they are proud "in your face" type of people in the West (tourists) if you notice.

Almost all strategic projects such as Saudi Arabia's own ballistic missile program is jointly developed with China, not the West, KSA's renewables push is mostly non-Western in nature, uranium extraction within KSA (China again), nuclear power/reactors once again non-West, China largest trade partner (not the West) etc.

Of course given the fact that the West is the dominating economic force and KSA having one of the most desired products (oil) it is natural for there to be economic cooperation.

The point here is that KSA is not solely reliant on West or betting on them but cleverly developing close/cordial ties with all powers out there.

And here are Westerners (non-Muslims) talking about KSA:




Our Pakistani diaspora in the West are completely clueless about the ground realities, history etc. and are more busy with their "puppet this and puppet that" nonsense. The ground realities are a bit different. As this is one of many examples of this. Nor is it something new. This is basically a declaration of war (economics). Similarly to how KSA already destroyed Western economies in the 1970's during the oil embargo.

Also lastly, remember that the US cannot afford to lose KSA. If they do that, they lose most of the Arab and Muslim world and a key strategic partner. China/Russia and others will jump right in. In fact the current Russia under Putin would give their right arm for truly strategic ties with KSA/Arabs (even the prospect of military bases in a "American Sea") and free access to warm and key strategic trade seas for the Russian navy.

What I am most looking forward to, is Xi Jinping's upcoming rumored visit to KSA. The first state official visit to a foreign country by the Chinese president since COVID-19 began.
 
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Saudi Arabia is just doing what is good for its national interest. Ppl think of saudi as american vassal but they put their national interest above everything. Unlike nuclear Pakistan that bundles with one phone call or letter. Our establishment are traitors and never out national interest above their personal interests.
 
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View attachment 885004


Almost all of KSA's strategic projects are done with China, not the West.

Remember that people from Saudi Arabia created some of the largest and most influential empires in history (largest and most influential in the Muslim world) and are one of the few non-European peoples to have ruled European territory for a very long time. Al-Andalus (Spain, Portugal), Crete (Greece), Sicily (Italy), Malta etc. In fact only the Arabs among all non-Europeans ever ruled Western European territory and their cousins the Phoenicians (related peoples to Arabs) whose origin lies in Eastern Arabia ironically according to ancient Greek scholars.

They left an incredible linguistic, architectural, genetic, culinary, musical, cultural influence that Arab culture had for almost 1000 years and continue to have in Spain, Portugal and by default the entire Latin American world. Even after the Inquisition and forceful removal of any Arab/Islamic influences it failed.

Even agriculture.


In fact most major Spanish cities have names that are of Arabic origin. Almost half of all of Spain's World UNESCO Heritage Sites were built by Arabs too. The most famous being Alhambra which is also one of the most visited places by tourists in Spain.

So they view the West as equals historically speaking albeit the West has had the upper hand for the past 500 years. This is an important physiological thing to notice among Arabs from KSA. They are not obsessed about hiding who they are, they are proud "in your face" type of people in the West (tourists) if you notice.

Almost all strategic projects such as Saudi Arabia's own ballistic missile program is jointly developed with China, not the West, KSA's renewables push is mostly non-Western in nature, uranium extraction within KSA (China again), nuclear power/reactors once again non-West, China largest trade partner (not the West) etc.

Of course given the fact that the West is the dominating economic force and KSA having one of the most desired products (oil) it is natural for there to be economic cooperation.

The point here is that KSA is not solely reliant on West or betting on them but cleverly developing close/cordial ties with all powers out there.

And here are Westerners (non-Muslims) talking about KSA:




Our Pakistani diaspora in the West are completely clueless about the ground realities, history etc. and are more busy with their "puppet this and puppet that" nonsense. The ground realities are a bit different. As this is one of many examples of this. Nor is it something new. This is basically a declaration of war (economics). Similarly to how KSA already destroyed Western economies in the 1970's during the oil embargo.

Also lastly, remember that the US cannot afford to lose KSA. If they do that, they lose most of the Arab and Muslim world and a key strategic partner. China/Russia and others will jump right in. In fact the current Russia under Putin would give their right arm for truly strategic ties with KSA/Arabs (even the prospect of military bases in a "American Sea") and free access to warm and key strategic trade seas for the Russian army.

What I am most looking forward to, is Xi Jinping's upcoming rumored visit to KSA. The first state official visit to a foreign country by the Chinese president since COVID-19 began.
I think the KSA sees the rise of China and Russia’s rebellion, and they contrast this to the constant demonization they get from the west despite being a nominal ally, and they are fed up.

China has historically only had good relations with the Arabs and Persians. So it’s natural for there to be cooperation. With the west however the Arabs have a deep animosity because of the past two centuries of colonialism, so at the first sign of floundering, the daggers will be out.
 
.
What is happening is mind boggling, a quantum shift.

1. The Saudis/ UAE not even picking up the phone when Biden rings.

2. Selling oil to the Chinese in Yuan.

3. Consulting with Russia about a cut in oil production at a time when the US is demanding an increase.

The US has deemed Saudi actions as 'aggressive' towards them. The American's most loyal and servile vassal in the middle east being quantified by the US as an adversary.

We are truly living in exceptional times. ' Decades go by when nothing happens, then in the space of weeks decades go by.'

The issue is multi-fold. If the Saudis do not cut oil production, the collapse in crude pricing will hurt them and their ambitious real estate projects. They have no choice but to maintain current pricing levels.

Most importantly, if you follow the money trail, the Saudis used Prince Al-Waleed and Saudi Sovereign Wealth Fund to invest $ 500M - $ 1B in three undervalued Russian oil companies between Feb-March. Hence, they have a direct interest in the price valuation of crude.
 
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us+europe wants to price cap russia.

minor voices in those places openly talk about how they want to price cap opec gas/oil too

oil+gas makes up a overwhelming chunk of the OPEC income

so if price capping works, it will soon be opec's turn to get price capped for any of a million real or made up reasons.

almost life or death, OPEC has to fight it.
 
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Canada needs to break away from its dependence on the US as well. It's absolutely buttfking pathetic that we've been put into a position where we cannot refine our own crude and have it sent to the US to sell it back to us.

Thanks to the Turdeau dynasty and the Harpie.
 
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Let's see how the Americans will respond.
We have a secret weapon, his name is Lu, Donald Lu..the regime change specialist ..cue 007 music.:triniti:


thumb.php


On a serious note, If you listen to the ARAMCO chief he's been saying there has been very little investment in new discoveries since 2014. The Arabs are hoping to push oil prices up so they can make massive investments in looking for and developing new assets. People forget that the Arabs rely heavily on western technology in upstream and downstream O&G exploration and production. Also we are close to cheap clean energy solution at scale, I'd say a decade or two - a narrow window for the Arabs to maximize returns from their O&G resources. The Saudis have been repeating the above message to the Biden administration since Biden took office. But Biden doesn't want to hear any of it and now the Arabs have taken a hard stance. Add to that the Arabs have been lobbying to prolong Iranian isolation and are using energy exports as a bargaining chip.

In terms of options there are plenty. If the West can bring Putin to his knees then MBS is chump change in comparison.
 
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We have a secret weapon, his name is Lu, Donald Lu..the regime change specialist ..cue 007 music.:triniti:


thumb.php


On a serious note, If you listen to the ARAMCO chief he's been saying there has been very little investment in new discoveries since 2014. The Arabs are hoping to push oil prices up so they can make massive investments in looking for and developing new assets. People forget that the Arabs rely heavily on western technology in upstream and downstream O&G exploration and production. Also we are close to cheap clean energy solution at scale, I'd say a decade or two - a narrow window for the Arabs to maximize returns from their O&G resources. The Saudis have been repeating the above message to the Biden administration since Biden took office. But Biden doesn't want to hear any of it and now the Arabs have taken a hard stance. Add to that the Arabs have been lobbying to prolong Iranian isolation and are using energy exports as a bargaining chip.

In terms of options there are plenty. If the West can bring Putin to his knees then MBS is chump change in comparison.
The timing is amusing, just a few days ago the Houthi military spokesman announced that they are going to target oil industries. Not a good time to go against America when you are desperately going to need those patriot batteries.
 
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Saudis are making a bet that America won't give up on them now due to Iran/Israel conflict. They need local players on their side to support Israel. Let's see how this strategy works out.
I think they will stop spares for the F-15s and somehow (and its not beneath them) engineer Yemen to lob a few more drones to put Saudi Arabia in its rightful place.

While i am joking about that, ultimately Saudi Arabia's entire future economic model is based on foreign investment and specifically western investment. Thats going to be the retribution to prevent free flow of capital to Saudi Arabia and essentially putting MBS vision at risk

The timing is amusing, just a few days ago the Houthi military spokesman announced that they are going to target oil industries. Not a good time to go against America when you are desperately going to need those patriot batteries.
There is already talk in congress of retaliation to start by relocating the 3000 military troops (symbolic) and up to control of arms parts going in.
 
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