Sane Indian Cautions Against "Unconcealed Delight"

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The excerpts provided by RaizHaq would appear to indicate that the foaming at the mouth, hateful, warmongering variety of Indian one comes across on this forum occasionally may be the rule rather than the exception.

'Exchanging gifts in Pakistan and coming back and calling for its destruction' - the Pakistani peace brigade needs to open its eyes to the duplicity across the border - there is no one to make peace with, just duplicitous liars and hatemongers.

I think we can see clearly which government has brainwashed whose people to 'hate the other'.

 

[PostColonial]

Of course we hate the Pakistani establishment. There's not a shred of doubt about it. The government doesn't need to "brainwash" us. The death of Indian soldiers in Kashmir for the last 2 decades, and the various Pakistani-sponsored terrorists causing mayhem in Indian cities is enough cause for hate.

The Pakistani government needs to somehow throw off the military and start thinking like a normal civilian entity. Only then can we have peace.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Of course we hate the Pakistani establishment. There's not a shred of doubt about it. The government doesn't need to "brainwash" us. The death of Indian soldiers in Kashmir for the last 2 decades, and the various Pakistani-sponsored terrorists causing mayhem in Indian cities is enough cause for hate.

The Pakistani government needs to somehow throw off the military and start thinking like a normal civilian entity. Only then can we have peace.

Before hating Pakistan for the above mentioned reasons, you should have done some soul searching into the Indian support and training for terrorists in East Pakistan who massacred and raped the families of West Pakistanis and Biharis, killed soldiers and civilians alike, inflamed an insurgency and then invaded East Pakistan to break it off from Pakistan.

You should have done some soul searching over the Indian invasion of Siachen in violation of the Simla agreement.

You should do some soul searching over your nations violation of its commitment to the UNSC resolutions and the continued occupation of a people in J&K, with tens of thousands raped, murdered and tortured to suppress their agitation in support of their right to plebsicite as granted by the UNSC and accepted by the Indian leadership multiple times in the past.

All of which occurred before the Kashmir insurgency in the late eighties.

Above all, your comments about the 'establishment' are a blatant lie and misdirection - Indians are celebrating the deaths of innocent Pakistani civilians, who are not part of the 'establishment'.

Nice try - but then what else is expected from a people who 'exchange gifts while in Pakistan, and then call for its destruction and celebrate the massacring of innocents when in India'.

 

[PostColonial]

I think nobody in India is happy about the suffering of common folk in Pakistan.

However, many Indians do feel what can be termed "poetic justice" that Pakistan (as a country, not as a people) is suffering the consequences of its own actions.

This can be easily misinterpreted as a wholesale celebration of the death on the other side of the border, which is quite understandable.

 

[PostColonial]

You should do some soul searching over your nations violation of its commitment to the UNSC resolutions and the continued occupation of a people in J&K, with tens of thousands raped, murdered and tortured to suppress their agitation in support of their right to plebsicite as granted by the UNSC and accepted by the Indian leadership multiple times in the past.

All of which occurred before the Kashmir insurgency in the late eighties.

There was no Islamist insurgency before the late 80s, so the question of "rape and torture" does not arise. I don't know where you get your facts from.

Regarding plebiscite, I do not wish to debate it, but my understanding is that Pakistan was responsible for its non-implementation several decades ago, and in the current conditions of massive demographic and ideological changes on both sides of the LOC, it is madness to implement the old resolution.
It may sound unprincipled to you, but no country is going to agree to a vote while the mosques in the vale blare out Islamist material and Pakistani propaganda every Friday.

In my humble opinion, Pakistan should sue for peace with India and conversion of LOC into the international border. Perhaps when the flow of militants stops, we can consider opening the LoC and partial autonomy for the valley.

 

[PostColonial]

Indian support fort terrorists in East Pakistan

No doubt, India sponsored an insurgency in East Pakistan, but I feel that under the circumstances it was justified. I also feel that you cannot draw a parallel between East Pakistan and Kashmir, because there was no widespread torture and killings in Kashmir when the Pakistani-sponsored insurgency began. There were no millions of refugees pouring into Pakistan when the Kashmir insurgency began.
I can understand that Pakistan resented Indian actions in '71, and frankly India can say the same about earlier Pakistani actions going back to independence, including partition, but the fact remains that Pakistan is solely responsible for its current situation. Not the US, not India. It was entirely Pakistan' decision to train and fund the Jehadis. You cannot escape from that fact.

 

[deckingraj]

The good thing is that there is an Indian out there discussing these matters openly. The next step should be for Indians to realize that their neighbors may need Indian assistance to combat the current scourge, and to consider what form such assistance should take.

I would like to correct you here...There is not just one Indian but a common understanding(including our politicians) across that a stable Pakistan is in India's interest. The issue comes to if India should provide a helping hand for Pak to achieve stability...That is the pressure cooker...Not only India but many other countries including US, UK are of the opninon that there is defnitely some camaraderie between Army and terrorist organizations like LET...As far as India is concerned we have a very strong opinion that pakistan is still following "Bleed India with Thousand cuts" policy.

Incidents like Kargil, Parliament attack, 26/11 has just created more mistrust...Now its sound stupid to lend a helping hand to an establishment which you think has a role to play in terrorist attacks on your soil...For the sake of argument even if you want to ignore past saying that both sides made mistakes how can you ignore the fact that terrorist camps are still operating...LET is still planning more attacks on India and her interests...

The need of the hour is to stop these terrorist acts...Obviously you cannot completely stop them in one day but atleast a few potent actions would set the mood.... Now if you put yourself in GOI shoes you will find that it will be a political suicide for her to ignore the fact/assumptions that ISI/Army still see terrorist organizations like LET as strategic interest and help Pakistan(provided they accept it)...Just imagine what will happen if another attack happen???


Thus to me the best option is to wait and watch...Do nothing to destabalize Pak but keep a close eye on the situation and the most important keep the back door channel open....

 

[Trisonics]

Before hating Pakistan for the above mentioned reasons, you should have done some soul searching into the Indian support and training for terrorists in East Pakistan who massacred and raped the families of West Pakistanis and Biharis, killed soldiers and civilians alike, inflamed an insurgency and then invaded East Pakistan to break it off from Pakistan.

why was there an insurgency in the first place? If you called them terrorists? what do you call your army?

You should have done some soul searching over the Indian invasion of Siachen in violation of the Simla agreement.

The demarcation of this territory was vague, if India hadn't, Pakistan would have tried to claim it later. In summary this just portrayed the suspicion we harbor against each other. Yes! It was a dumb move by India, considering the inhumane conditions we have to put our soldiers over this stupidity, but there is no soul searching to be done in this case..both the countries are stupid!

You should do some soul searching over your nations violation of its commitment to the UNSC resolutions and the continued occupation of a people in J&K, with tens of thousands raped, murdered and tortured to suppress their agitation in support of their right to plebsicite as granted by the UNSC and accepted by the Indian leadership multiple times in the past.

its funny you called it "continued occupation" , just because azad kashmir is called azad kashmir, its not "azad", thats "continued" occupation as well.
azad Kashmiris still need a Pakistani passport right?
Don't some Pakistanis still claim the terrorists that come into India as freedom fighters? Do they just shout slogans?

Above all, your comments about the 'establishment' are a blatant lie and misdirection - Indians are celebrating the deaths of innocent Pakistani civilians, who are not part of the 'establishment'.

Nice try - but then what else is expected from a people who 'exchange gifts while in Pakistan, and then call for its destruction and celebrate the massacring of innocents when in India'.

I was a bit surprised that a guy like you would claim "Indians are celebrating the deaths of innocent Pakistani civilians," by reading a single post. Expected a lot more from you. Intention was not to have the same debate allover again, but as I said ..was suprised

 

[third eye]

Before hating Pakistan for the above mentioned reasons, you should have done some soul searching into the Indian support and training for terrorists in East Pakistan who massacred and raped the families of West Pakistanis and Biharis, killed soldiers and civilians alike, inflamed an insurgency and then invaded East Pakistan to break it off from Pakistan.

You should have done some soul searching over the Indian invasion of Siachen in violation of the Simla agreement.

You should do some soul searching over your nations violation of its commitment to the UNSC resolutions and the continued occupation of a people in J&K, with tens of thousands raped, murdered and tortured to suppress their agitation in support of their right to plebsicite as granted by the UNSC and accepted by the Indian leadership multiple times in the past.

All of which occurred before the Kashmir insurgency in the late eighties.

Above all, your comments about the 'establishment' are a blatant lie and misdirection - Indians are celebrating the deaths of innocent Pakistani civilians, who are not part of the 'establishment'.

Nice try - but then what else is expected from a people who 'exchange gifts while in Pakistan, and then call for its destruction and celebrate the massacring of innocents when in India'.

There is nothing India has done to Pk which Pk did not do to India before. India has more often than not taken a leaf from the Pk book.

In 47, even before the UNSC resolutions, Pk invaded a state that acceded to the Indian Union - we could debate the pro & cons endlessly but the bottom line remains the same.

In 65, a similar attempt was made in J&K by Ayub in the poorly conceived hope that the local will rise. This did not happen.- India paid similar compliments in 71.

In the 80's Pk tried unsuccessfully to ferment trouble in Punjab - India did the same later. The list is endless.

Pk has ever since tried to bleed India thru a ' thousand cuts' - this too is now being replicated.

The only answer is to accept our geography which will never change. The sooner we do this - peace & harmony will / may be achieved.

 

[RobbieS]

Before hating Pakistan for the above mentioned reasons, you should have done some soul searching into the Indian support and training for terrorists in East Pakistan who massacred and raped the families of West Pakistanis and Biharis, killed soldiers and civilians alike, inflamed an insurgency and then invaded East Pakistan to break it off from Pakistan.

You should have done some soul searching over the Indian invasion of Siachen in violation of the Simla agreement.

You should do some soul searching over your nations violation of its commitment to the UNSC resolutions and the continued occupation of a people in J&K, with tens of thousands raped, murdered and tortured to suppress their agitation in support of their right to plebsicite as granted by the UNSC and accepted by the Indian leadership multiple times in the past.

All of which occurred before the Kashmir insurgency in the late eighties.

Above all, your comments about the 'establishment' are a blatant lie and misdirection - Indians are celebrating the deaths of innocent Pakistani civilians, who are not part of the 'establishment'.

Nice try - but then what else is expected from a people who 'exchange gifts while in Pakistan, and then call for its destruction and celebrate the massacring of innocents when in India'.

India sponsored insurgents who raped and pillaged Bengalis and Biharis in East Pakistan.
Are you raving mad? If that was the case then I wonder why there were lakhs of refugees pouring all across East India. Were they fools walking into the very country that didn't wish them well?

And don't get me started on the UNSC regulations! Nobody followed the prerequisites, neither Pakistan nor India. Was Pakistan ready to move its forces back to pre-war levels?And who started the whole thing? Who sent in forces across the border into Kashmir in 1948?

Siachen was a masterstroke. In fact your army was planning the same operation. Its just that we got there first.

And keep your BS about the Simla agreement to yourself. If Bhutto hadnt groveled before Indira in Simla you wouldn't have got any Pakistan worth its name left. So be thankful for our generosity!

 

[sandy]

self delete

 

[Moorkh]

right now the choice seems to be between the following

either the democratically elected govt or the pakistani army keeps pushing terrorists into india

or the taliban guys take over and send terrorists into india.

none of them are good choices it seems.

bu to me the former is much much better.
simply because in the former case there is hope that sane minds will prevail.

cant say the same for the taliban guys. they did not give 2 hoots for the world when they went around blowing up large things in bamiyan. why would they care what the world has to say while trying to blow india up.

for india the best choice by a large margin is to ensure that the pakistani state stays out of the hands of those crazy taliban guys. that means not making life difficult for the pak govt if it looks like falling.

 

[mjnaushad]

Because of these typical sane indians and siculars india is becoming a hell day by day. I don't see any difference in attitude of pakistan towards india whether it is stable or unstable.we don't have much terrorist attacks in this year just because of uncle's presence on other side of the border otherwise it would have been same thing.Pakistanis are well grilled by their political leaders and army about devil hindu india.
Peace and honesty will never come to this land(south asia) until a billion people washed out from this land.
Every time i see the pakistanis responses in various forums i get the feeling that these fellows are suffering from superiority complex. I hope one day we will go to a brutal war where a living pakistani should never think about their superiority against another human being for another dozen civilizations

wow... Hold it right there buddy. You are crossing the line.

 

[Bushy]

The excerpts provided by RaizHaq would appear to indicate that the foaming at the mouth, hateful, warmongering variety of Indian...

When the 'Super Moderator' himself cannot contain his highly generalized, superfluous derogatory comment against a populace he knows nothing about, I wonder what he is moderating here.

 

[deckingraj]

@Sandy

Because of these typical sane indians and siculars india is becoming a hell day by day.

Care to explain what you mean here??? What wrong do you see in his statement that made you say this???

P.S: I myself do not agree with every aspect of his article but overall what he is saying is correct...A stable pakistan is indeed in india's interest...

I don't see any difference in attitude of pakistan towards india whether it is stable or unstable.we don't have much terrorist attacks in this year just because of uncle's presence on other side of the border otherwise it would have been same thing.Pakistanis are well grilled by their political leaders and army about devil hindu india.

Tell me when was the last time we went for war when there was a civil government in pakistan?? You know that Kargil was rejected by Mrs Bhutto during her period..Now i am not saying that all problems will solve the movement Pakistan get a powerful civilian govt.. but no one can deny if it happens probability of a peaceful solution is very much possible and chance of war will drastically reduce...

Peace and honesty will never come to this land(south asia) until a billion people washed out from this land.

Don't make naive statements...

Every time i see the pakistanis responses in various forums i get the feeling that these fellows are suffering from superiority complex. I hope one day we will go to a brutal war where a living pakistani should never think about their superiority against another human being for another dozen civilizations

These can be the words of a war monger which are in plenty on both sides of the border.. However i feel you just got a little carried away and do not actually mean it...