SAC - FC-31 Grey Falcon Stealth aircraft for PAF : Updates & Debate

[The SC]

The Chinese investment doesn't contradict my thoughts, you should go read up on my posts. I may be one of the few people on here who know the investments inflows to Pakistan a lot more than you can imagine.

Chinese investments and strategic offensive weapons are two VERY different things and entirely opposite in perspective. For example, the US and Japan do hundreds of billions of trade, but the US has refused to sell the -22 to it. Japan is the US's one of the biggest trading partner for decades. Same thing with Israel, Israel is one of our closes allies. But the US government refused to provide -22 to them. Instead they offered the -35 (which still is years advanced than anything their opponents have, but still, saying no to Israel is a huge deal).

So, both Japan and Israel are very strong organizations, both financially, trade wise and militarily. And Pakistan has just embarked herself on a long economic journey......so a LOT of differences. It won't be easy for Pakistan to get the Chinese to sell her tech related to the J-31, period. You can happily live in your dream world.

In the case of Japan, you should know that it was occupied by the US and even nuked by it, do you think the US is not scared of a militarized Japan again?
You can better compare the ToT from China to Pakistan with that of yours with Usrael; Pakistan said openly that it is going for the J-31 not the J-20, that is like the F-35 vs the F-22.

Its backward is evident in its inability to leverage all that intelligence effectively. Trying to use the economics excuse has gone old on Pakistan. The corruption and mediocrity within its R&D department is plentiful enough to see projects shuttling about in nothing more than files.

As for your ideals of procurement, you could not be more wrong.. Pakistan makes ONLY what it cannot procure easily from any source. Which means Pakistan only makes something when it know that it is near impossible for it to ensure a steady supply of that item. Otherwise it is very happy procuring things that are available at much cheaper rates than it would take to make them. We are not India,and have no ambitions to try and climb up the steep steps of total indignization and shoot ourselves in the foot multiple times along the way.

The Afghan war quagmire added to a natural disaster had a very negative impact on Pakistan's economy, add to it foreign conspiracies from India, the US and Usrael to ferment internal havoc called terrorism, and you can see that the economy played a large part in that inability of leveraging all the potential of Pakistan's brains and intelligence, the war in Afghanistan and the internal conflicts imposed a big toll on Pakistan as a whole.
You have got the whole thing about procurements wrong. The whole world functions like that, even China buys foreign weapon systems, because they are readily available and good stop gaps when one is developing its own.

 

[araz]

Its fairly transactional, except in this case the relation is more like a person indebted giving it all up. This "giving" it all up is why there is strict security around the Block-52s that Pakistan has and its upgraded MLUs...down to retina scans.
From what I gathered, any attempt to let even an authorized person near the Block-52 triggers off an Alarm that probably has the US Defence Attaché ringing up the PAF and giving them a stern warning followed up by an investigation into the incident. All clearances have US personnel approval in it.

That is NOT to indicate that these aircraft are handicapped in their usage(which they can be against all enemies east or west of Pakistan save the US and its allies) , but a clear sign that whatever these aircraft carry is sophisticated and advanced enough to warrant it from falling into Chinese hands to be xerox'd.

This is not unusual and the same level of security is around the Bl.60s of UAE.
This business of handing over technology just like that just does not happen and arguments about it is a waste of time.
Araz

 

[black-hawk_101]

I am sure PAF is in talks with Chinese over joining the program or looking for license production instead of J-10s.

 

[CHI RULES]

So far Chinese have given clear signals that J31 is for export customers so if Pakistan goes for them they will get them just like any other country however J20 is clearly designed for Chinese requirements and will not be available for exports in any near future.( Just like F22 not offered by USA to any country but they have offered F35 to their allies.

 

[black-hawk_101]

Im sure PAF is looking to procure or produce FC31 rather J10.

 

[boke]

作为中国人，我认为空军准备的技术和装备更新换代是很正常的，一如歼-10在技术上的不断升级，最终的效果应该是4++的水平；而5代机中国因为同时有两款在研制当中，J-20和J-31，不同的是，这两款5代机的用途各不相同，比较适合中国用的是前者，后者则适用于国土面积和防空压力相对较小的国家。值得庆幸的同样是中国研制的5代战机，如果一种战机得到真正的突破，那么另一款的横空出世就会很快了，技术之间是有借鉴和创新的，相信即使是J-31出来了，它也一定和J-20有不同的特点。对于巴基斯坦来说，引进哪一款都需要根据自己实际情况和需要来谈，中国和巴基斯坦是战略上的盟友，别的不用多说什么！

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

作为中国人，我认为空军准备的技术和装备更新换代是很正常的，一如歼-10在技术上的不断升级，最终的效果应该是4++的水平；而5代机中国因为同时有两款在研制当中，J-20和J-31，不同的是，这两款5代机的用途各不相同，比较适合中国用的是前者，后者则适用于国土面积和防空压力相对较小的国家。值得庆幸的同样是中国研制的5代战机，如果一种战机得到真正的突破，那么另一款的横空出世就会很快了，技术之间是有借鉴和创新的，相信即使是J-31出来了，它也一定和J-20有不同的特点。对于巴基斯坦来说，引进哪一款都需要根据自己实际情况和需要来谈，中国和巴基斯坦是战略上的盟友，别的不用多说什么！

Translation

As a Chinese, I think the Air Force to prepare the technology and equipment replacement is normal, as the J-10 is technically escalating , the final result should be level 4 ++ ; and the 5th generation machine China because while there Both of them in the development , J-20 and J-31, the difference is , these two 5th generation machines use different , more suitable for Chinese use of the former, the latter is applicable to the land area and air defense pressure relatively small country. Fortunately, the same Chinese developed the 5th generation fighter , if a fighter get real breakthrough , it will be another turned out very quickly , there is a draw between technology and innovation , I believe that even J- 31 came out, it must also J-20 and have different characteristics . For Pakistan , the introduction of which one need according to their actual situation and needs to talk , China and Pakistan are strategic allies , needless to say anything else !

 

[boke]

Translation

As a Chinese, I think the Air Force to prepare the technology and equipment replacement is normal, as the J-10 is technically escalating , the final result should be level 4 ++ ; and the 5th generation machine China because while there Both of them in the development , J-20 and J-31, the difference is , these two 5th generation machines use different , more suitable for Chinese use of the former, the latter is applicable to the land area and air defense pressure relatively small country. Fortunately, the same Chinese developed the 5th generation fighter , if a fighter get real breakthrough , it will be another turned out very quickly , there is a draw between technology and innovation , I believe that even J- 31 came out, it must also J-20 and have different characteristics . For Pakistan , the introduction of which one need according to their actual situation and needs to talk , China and Pakistan are strategic allies , needless to say anything else !

非常感谢你的翻译！这位朋友，我不用英语，一方面是因为长时间没有用英语写作，这方面能力有所欠缺，另一方面是我对自己的语言比较有自信，中国人用中文写作是理所当然的事情。当然，在交流方面可能有巴基斯坦朋友看不懂中文，但是看到你能准确的理解我所写的内容，我由衷的感到高兴，希望中文能在巴基斯坦普及开，我希望有一天我能用中文在巴基斯坦愉快的旅行！

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

我在这个论坛上英语的朋友是被使用，但我们也知道，还有人在世界上谁不知道英语的唯一语言。他们也欢迎他们的语言写的。有可用的像谷歌某些翻译网站翻译，有时甚至是不完全准确的翻译所以一些修正是必需的。

在巴基斯坦有一个计划，以启动中国语言要教作为一个受孩子但现在取消了。

My friend on this forum English is the only language that is to be used but we do understand that there are people in the world who do not know English. They are also welcome to write in their language. There are some translation sites available like Google Translate, some times it even is not fully accurate in translation so some corrections are required.

In Pakistan there was a plan to start Chinese Language to be taught as a subject to children but it is now canceled.

非常感谢你的翻译！这位朋友，我不用英语，一方面是因为长时间没有用英语写作，这方面能力有所欠缺，另一方面是我对自己的语言比较有自信，中国人用中文写作是理所当然的事情。当然，在交流方面可能有巴基斯坦朋友看不懂中文，但是看到你能准确的理解我所写的内容，我由衷的感到高兴，希望中文能在巴基斯坦普及开，我希望有一天我能用中文在巴基斯坦愉快的旅行！

 

[Blue Marlin]

this will be best possible option for us in future , but i think we will see what happen after Jf-17 block 3 start producing

yes after the block 3 and also after the FC-20 which should be in the works soon i would say around 2023 would be a good time for induction. the jf17 and the j31 share the same engine so maintenance would be very easy and also knowledge with Chinese jet will help.

 

[FunkyGen]

非常感谢你的翻译！这位朋友，我不用英语，一方面是因为长时间没有用英语写作，这方面能力有所欠缺，另一方面是我对自己的语言比较有自信，中国人用中文写作是理所当然的事情。当然，在交流方面可能有巴基斯坦朋友看不懂中文，但是看到你能准确的理解我所写的内容，我由衷的感到高兴，希望中文能在巴基斯坦普及开，我希望有一天我能用中文在巴基斯坦愉快的旅行！

@boke
Brother chinese language at it's very basis is very different to the other languages as it revolves around a different set of alphabets and their understanding...
it also happens to be a very difficult language...
therefore it is very impractical for us to adopt it on a large scale...
we know english because of the british rule over the sub continent but our mother language is still urdu...


however there are plans for post graduate chinese classes in some of our universities and the formation of a cultural center...
with that being said we value the Chinese friendship and partnership to the utmost... thanks!

 

[Khanivore]

I know I'm late to reply but here it is anyway...

Your country is famous for making absolute crap. You're world famous for that, you should be proud.

*ahem* They ARE proud hence why they are sitting on the biggest pile of forex reserves in the world, some US$3.7 TRILLION.

Your own country's largest imports from China is Chinese phone equipment. India is flooded with Chinese phones! And don't even deny the fact that you Indians are actually drooling over latest Chinese designed and made smartphones. Google for gizchina where many Indians are checking out latest Chinese phones which are not copies/clones but are Chinese by design and manufacture. Have you heard about the Chinese phone which has a touch sensitive laser projector built-in? It's a world first and no doubt you Indians will be checking it out.

There are a lot things made in India as well, like the name of your country and culture for one

Apart from raw and processed materials, what is India exporting that is a technological success? (I'm not talking about software)

To China alone your largest export is copper! You're actually helping China produce "absolute crap" by exporting to China the materials it needs, for goods the world wants!

About the only technological export is your software that has been contracted to your Indian IT firms by Western companies but that changing in this fast moving world. Now many other countries offer same services.

What about your call centres which are totally disliked by the general population in the West, especially the British public. Your thick Indian accent and not understanding your callers because you're too busy reading off prepared scripts has annoyed the hell out of the public in Britain, hence why your call centre operators are labeled "script monkeys". Western companies have now started to move away from India and have setup call centres in countries like Bulgaria.

BUT above all else, do you realize how much bad rep India is getting for the horrendous number of rapes and abuse of your own women and children? Makes you wonder which terrorists the women and children of India should really fear. An excerpt from The Guardian paper in Britain, "Of all the rich G20 nations, India has been labelled the worst place to be a woman. But how is this possible in a country that prides itself on being the world's largest democracy?"

 

[Spectre]

Apart from raw and processed materials, what is India exporting that is a technological success? (I'm not talking about software)

To China alone your largest export is copper! You're actually helping China produce "absolute crap" by exporting to China the materials it needs, for goods the world wants!

About the only technological export is your software that has been contracted to your Indian IT firms by Western companies but that changing in this fast moving world. Now many other countries offer same services.

What about your call centres which are totally disliked by the general population in the West, especially the British public. Your thick Indian accent and not understanding your callers because you're too busy reading off prepared scripts has annoyed the hell out of the public in Britain, hence why your call centre operators are labeled "script monkeys". Western companies have now started to move away from India and have setup call centres in countries like Bulgaria.

BUT above all else, do you realize how much bad rep India is getting for the horrendous number of rapes and abuse of your own women and children? Makes you wonder which terrorists the women and children of India should really fear. An excerpt from The Guardian paper in Britain, "Of all the rich G20 nations, India has been labelled the worst place to be a woman. But how is this possible in a country that prides itself on being the world's largest democracy?"

Please educate yourself before posting crap

India's Top 5 exports

1. Gems and Jewelry $ 8 billion- Value added industry (Import -> Diamond Cutting ->Export)
2. Oil: $4.4 billion - Value added Industry (Import -> Refining ->Export)
3. Pharmaceuticals: $3.8 billion Indigenous Manufacturing
4. Other textiles, worn clothing: $2.2 billion Manufacturing
5. Machines, engines, pumps: $2 billion Manufacturing

Sincere request - educate yourself

 

[大汉奸柳传志]

AVIC recently updated its chinese webpage to put FC-31 on the menu. Maybe they feel confident enough for this bird to be on market soon.

No specs are given，only a few key words as a teaser：High survivability，Multi-role，Comprehensive Support Capabilities，Ban for the buck（literally they said that..lol）

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Ban for the buck（literally they said that..lol）

Ban or Bang ?