SAC - FC-31 Grey Falcon Stealth aircraft for PAF : Updates & Debate

[SQ8]

Race in my understanding implies striving to better your opponent.
Perhaps you arms race is not the correct phrase for what you mean.

Not exactly.. and yes. The race is there for arms.. but for wholly different goals when it comes to bettering your opponent.
For India it is already there but now the race is to better its ability to achieve its objectives in a conflict with Pakistan...with minimum losses and in minimum time.
For Pakistan it means to maximise India's losses and delay or subvert India's ability to achieve its objectives within a conflict.

So it still is an Arms race.. just that the track and finish line(if there is such a thing) for each is different.

 

[greatone]

Not exactly.. and yes. The race is there for arms.. but for wholly different goals when it comes to bettering your opponent.
For India it is already there but now the race is to better its ability to achieve its objectives in a conflict with Pakistan...with minimum losses and in minimum time.
For Pakistan it means to maximise India's losses and delay or subvert India's ability to achieve its objectives within a conflict.

So it still is an Arms race.. just that the track and finish line(if there is such a thing) for each is different.

Exactly my point.
Just that I wouldn't call it a race when objectives of the participants are different.
But the point is moot since you qualified your statement.

 

[cirr]

Hello guys and gals，this is how your future FC-31P will be built:

Fresh from 2014 Zhuhai Airshow：FC-31's titanium rear fuselage frame 3D printed.

 

[SQ8]

Hello guys and gals，this is how your future FC-31P will be built:

View attachment 153182

View attachment 153183

Fresh from 2014 Zhuhai Airshow：FC-31's titanium rear fuselage frame 3D printed.

Did they bring it in the same day or was it there from the start of the show?

 

[Max Pain]

Had done that exercise many years ago ... it got changed many times by others. But good idea ... I will give a go at it again, when I have some free time.

man you should do it, is out dated, not everyone will make an account on pak def just for info on PAF,
you should give it a priority.we all will benefit from it.

 

[araz]

Hi,

Going back to Clinton----he was just toying with Nawaz-----the supposed offer of F16's was nothing---. Bill was arrogant---remember he would not shake hands with Musharraf the first time he stopped by in Pakistan----.

Nawaz never had the technique to deal from a position of strength----. By putting restriction on capital leaving Pakistan---he had already put himself and the country in a very weak position---a position he could not negotiate from----.

Now if there were no restrictions and expats had filled the coffers with 5 billion plus dollars---Nawaz had a position to deal from strength-----.

But---again----you guys are forgetting something----these nucs are our security----. See what happened to Libya---Iraq---Syria---and on top of that Russia----cold war ended and the Russia was dumped----.

Don't second guess about the F 16 or F 15 deal---if we could trade our nucs for them---if anything you want to second guess or want to HANG SOMEONE----it is the chief of Pakistan air force during 2002 - 2005 ---if it was not for the TRAITORS OF PAF ---- we would not have had these issues.

Blaming every ill on the PAF is a childish approach and would not cut grass in any historical/ strategic circle. In fact I challenge you that if you sat in any strategic circle you would be mauled very badly.
Having said that I agree that Nawaz's move to block foreign currency accounts was extremely foolish and totally devoid of any logic. But this is what you expect from a fool with nothing but paya on his head and a bunch of crooks surrounding him. Incidentally nearly 500 million$ were transferred out that very night after kidnapping some bank managers.
At the expense of sounding like a teacher it is not as simple as PAF asking for some money for a platform and getting its shopping bag out and walking to the nearest wallmart to place an order. Your request has to go through the procurement section which sends a summary to the PM. The PM nèeds to approve it before you can place the order. If your coffers are empty no amount of cajolement will get you a positive response. Point in case the need to shore up on 16s. The easiest source is US and tye best way would be to say we buy 18 52s if you give us 2 squadrons of older 32/42 to MLU. Seems nice but do you have the resources to sustain the expenditure. Another point to note! you may have the money but the resource refuses to sell you the product you want to buy. Note that your enquiry for Griffin was politely refused. You evaluated the Rafale and felt it was unaffordable. The 16s were not available and the chinese did not have anything to sell either. The red bear was not ready to be your friend. What do you do. You may respond that the M2K were available but the assembly line was close to shutting down and you had already evaluated it many times and found it lacking. The deal was just not there.
So yes PAF is not without its faults and idiocies and yes the M2K BUY in the early 90s may have shut all the avenues for the Indians but it did not happen that way and the rest is history.
araz

 

[araz]

I always wished that if we decided not to detonate the bomb then should have demanded 2 squadrons of F-15s from Clinton, he was already offering F-16s and Patriot batteries as a bribe for not going Nuclear.

world Knew we had the capability so I dont know we wont have lost any prestige (we paid too much for detonating due to sanctions).
even two such squadrons of these heavy jets primed for only one purpose and one purpose alone, intercept, air domination and killing every moving hostile plane in its range with no ground based multirole nonsense. (I wish)

still doable if such philosophy is applied on -11 Russian clones

Irfan.
I dont think it was as simple as that. If you had not done so they would not have given you jack till you had agreed to an international inspection and complete roll back of the whole programme. I dont think the fools in command had the balls to stand upto international pressure. Plus you would have had your erstwhile neighbour poking you in 2002. I think it was thought to be the best strategy to stand up and be counted as a nuclear nation once and for all
Araz

 

[MastanKhan]

Blaming every ill on the PAF is a childish approach and would not cut grass in any historical/ strategic circle. In fact I challenge you that if you sat in any strategic circle you would be mauled very badly.
Having said that I agree that Nawaz's move to block foreign currency accounts was extremely foolish and totally devoid of any logic. But this is what you expect from a fool with nothing but paya on his head and a bunch of crooks surrounding him. Incidentally nearly 500 million$ were transferred out that very night after kidnapping some bank managers.
+

Sir,

Please---I am a man---a middle aged at that----plz address me as such---. Regardless of what a man says and regardless of what his approach is----you never address it as childish---at least in America----in the last 30 plus years---no American has ever stated that to me----white black brown or yellow----but paks make it a habbit---.

I never make such a comment to even my 12 year old----.

As for mauling me----this old dad was the only one stating that how much time it would take paf to integrate the JF 17----close to 10 years---and everyone else was in the 1 year to 2 years mode----.

I don't mind a mauling---but isn't paf the only agency---that in time of war was negligent to have 3 to 4 of its most expensive assets destroyed due to lack of security. Enough said---hehn.

 

[Ray_of_Hope]

I believe that the Russians haven't given the go-ahead as yet because of the engines?

If that was the case,then pakistan would not have gone for the export of JFT.But pakistan did,so thats not the case

 

[Last Samuri]

Thunder has been exported ??????

Where to who.m ???????

 

[Ultima Thule]

Thunder has been exported ??????

Where to who.m ???????

to none,although oders from Azerbaijan 24, Egypt 12 to16 and Zimbabwe 12 already placed.

 

[The SC]

FC-31 v2.0

 

[araz]

Sir,

Please---I am a man---a middle aged at that----plz address me as such---. Regardless of what a man says and regardless of what his approach is----you never address it as childish---at least in America----in the last 30 plus years---no American has ever stated that to me----white black brown or yellow----but paks make it a habbit---.

I never make such a comment to even my 12 year old----.

As for mauling me----this old dad was the only one stating that how much time it would take paf to integrate the JF 17----close to 10 years---and everyone else was in the 1 year to 2 years mode----.

I don't mind a mauling---but isn't paf the only agency---that in time of war was negligent to have 3 to 4 of its most expensive assets destroyed due to lack of security. Enough said---hehn.

As to respect it is earned and not demanded. Where I have liked and agreed with your post I have duly acknowledged it and to be fair so have you.So no use of ranting. We are more or less the same age so lets get on with it.
I have never said that PAF is the best a gift from Allah SWT. It has many faults and many facets of neglect and corruption which come down to gross neglect. However the impression I get from your post is that PAF is the root of all the ills facing Pakistan. The things that you blatantly ignore is the procurement process and multiple parties and vested interests within the government cadre trying to help their paymasters. The whole system is corrupt to the core and singling a scapegoat out 8s what I object to.
As to PAF Losses the PN was blatantly neglectful when the orions were fried. However the Erieyes were in their hangar when a grenade was fired through the door. The US has also lost assetts in Afghanistan due to guerrilla warfare. Do you think they were neglectful as well. Our war and its reasons are very complex and tax the loyalties of the masses in general. This is what has been played against the Forces again and again. Yes we have suffered a huge loss but name a war in which there were no losses to any 0f the parties.
Produce a balanced post it will be respected produce a bad one it will be criticized . this is the nature of this game. This is how it happens. live with it.
Araz

 

[nomi007]

Pakistani delegation taking info about fc-31

 

[nomi007]

why we are getting fc-1
paf need to consider this
beast