Saab-2000 plane incorporated in PAF fleet

[air marshal]

 

[blain2]

On a side note, the Erieye induction has immense benefits for Pakistan in the face of the IA's Cold Start doctrine. While Indian Army has been training to reduce mobilization times from weeks to days, the Erieye systems will allow Pakistani defences to respond even quicker to any movements on the ground (divisional size etc.) as and when IA puts Cold Start doctrine into execution.

There are certain capabilities available on the Erieyes which will provide extremely valuable intelligence to the Army commanders on the Pakistani side when such movements on the Indian side are taking place. This is aside from conventional intelligence gathering that goes on around the border areas.

 

[ANG]

Hi, I am curious as to why Pakistan chose the SAAB 2000 over the Embraer 145. I know the PAF mentioned that they were not happy with the Embraer 145 in hot and high conditions. However, Brazil and Mexico have these types of weather condition and bought the ERIEYE on the Embraer 145 platform. Also India has (is?) purchased the Embraer 145 jet for its home grown AWACS. Also the SAAB 2000 does not have inflight refueling that can limit its loiter capability.

Have a happy new year!

 

[Wingman]

A good gift for PAF on the arrival of New Year

 

[TangoViking]

Hi, I am curious as to why Pakistan chose the SAAB 2000 over the Embraer 145. I know the PAF mentioned that they were not happy with the Embraer 145 in hot and high conditions. However, Brazil and Mexico have these types of weather condition and bought the ERIEYE on the Embraer 145 platform. Also India has (is?) purchased the Embraer 145 jet for its home grown AWACS. Also the SAAB 2000 does not have inflight refueling that can limit its loiter capability.

Have a happy new year!

Can't in-flight refuel most smaller AEW's. Not on EMB-145 either.

Not current Hawkeye, or new G-550 caews... and even with in-flight refueling (planned upgrade) the Hawkeye still struggles to reach the impressive 9.5H endurance of Saab 2000.

The Saab 2000 has over 50% longer endurance than the current E-2C aircraft for instance. And a little bit, but not much more than EMB-145.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

the only time i have seen an AWACS getting refueled in midair was an E3 Sentry getting refueled by KC135


9.5 hours endurance is very respectable. I'm glad we opted for the Saab.

 

[AVIAN]

On a side note, the Erieye induction has immense benefits for Pakistan in the face of the IA's Cold Start doctrine. While Indian Army has been training to reduce mobilization times from weeks to days, the Erieye systems will allow Pakistani defences to respond even quicker to any movements on the ground (divisional size etc.) as and when IA puts Cold Start doctrine into execution.

There are certain capabilities available on the Erieyes which will provide extremely valuable intelligence to the Army commanders on the Pakistani side when such movements on the Indian side are taking place. This is aside from conventional intelligence gathering that goes on around the border areas.

Very important point indeed, but one should not forget the fact that, as far as your post is concerned, reducing mobilization time from weeks to day doesn't really warrent mobilization of a massive divisional components of IA. It may be on the line of special forces, Tactical airlift, paradropping etc which will make quite difficult jobs for Pak's AEW to give real time intelligence input about the same. Not to forget, such mobilization will also going to be supported by IA's ECM and Awacs inputs which will do some job tough for Pak's Ground based and aerial based intelligence assets.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Great addition 9 more awacs to go lets go Pakistan

 

[Kompromat]

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Thank you

 

[dbc]

Can't in-flight refuel most smaller AEW's. Not on EMB-145 either.

Not current Hawkeye, or new G-550 caews... and even with in-flight refueling (planned upgrade) the Hawkeye still struggles to reach the impressive 9.5H endurance of Saab 2000.

The Saab 2000 has over 50% longer endurance than the current E-2C aircraft for instance. And a little bit, but not much more than EMB-145.

TangoViking, endurance was not a key design consideration for the E-2. Do you expect our pilots spend 9.5 hrs on BARCAP, possible in theory with in-flight refueling but completely unnecessary especially since there is a nice big carrier nearby to land on.

And you forget to mention that the endurance you are so proud of is largely due to the efficiency of the Rolls-Royce AE 2100 turboprop engines on the SAAB 2000.

 

[ironman]

Can't in-flight refuel most smaller AEW's. Not on EMB-145 either.

Yes it can, EMB-145 AEW&C has in-flight refuel mode.

http://www.embraerdefensesystems.com.br/english/inc/dforcetor.asp?caminho=download/pdf/Spec_AEW_C_09.pdf
http://ri.embraer.com.br/Embraer/Download.aspx?id=9790

 

[PAFAce]

Very important point indeed, but one should not forget the fact that, as far as your post is concerned, reducing mobilization time from weeks to day doesn't really warrent mobilization of a massive divisional components of IA. It may be on the line of special forces, Tactical airlift, paradropping etc

Yes, but special forces, tactical airlift and paratroops cannot be used to launch a significant thrust into Pakistani territory and occupy a large area, which is what Cold Start is all about. For that, you will need to mobilize infantry and armor, backed up with artillery, in significant quantity so as to penetrate through whatever defences Pakistan may have in place. Those movements will be very visible to our AEW&C systems. There are ways to counter this, which I am sure the IA will put into place shortly, and which will be countered by PA in due time, and so the cycle will continue.

such mobilization will also going to be supported by IA's ECM and Awacs inputs which will do some job tough for Pak's Ground based and aerial based intelligence assets.

The absolute worst thing you could do is start strongly jamming our surveillance systems before your troop movements begin. As soon as that happens, Pakistan will begin to mobilize its defensive forces suspecting a strike, and you will lose all of the element of surprise that is so vital to Cold Start. Large scale jamming would be like sounding a whistle before the attack. Cold Start, as the term suggests, is all about an abrupt and strong push into a small region of Pakistani territory to force Pakistan into a compromising position immediately after hostilities begin. This idea is much like what the last German offensive of the Second World War in the Ardennes forests, also known as the Battle of the Bulge, tried to achieve. Pakistan will have to ensure that it can get just enough resources to the region before the attack to blunt the attack and hold the line, while re-enforcements will pour in. Hence, we will not have to match the numbers of the attacking IA, we will just have to mobilize enough manpower and firepower to delay you, which would pretty much kill any "Cold Start", much like what the American 101st Airborne Div. managed to do in the Ardennes.

Therefore, our new AEW&C will provide us with ample time to mobilize the required resources, while a counter is worked out by the higher-ups. The IA will likely have to re-think the "Cold Start", hence this round goes to PA.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

TangoViking, endurance was not a key design consideration for the E-2. Do you expect our pilots spend 9.5 hrs on BARCAP, possible in theory with in-flight refueling but completely unnecessary especially since there is a nice big carrier nearby to land on.

And you forget to mention that the endurance you are so proud of is largely due to the efficiency of the Rolls-Royce AE 2100 turboprop engines on the SAAB 2000.

DO you have something really personal with saab Sweden or ericsson?

 

[dbc]

DO you have something really personal with saab Sweden or ericsson?

No but I will not let anyone dis the super fudd