SAA Konkurs M better than Israeli Spike LR and American TOW 2A?

[500]

Armed drones with long loiter times, like the 24 hour endurance on the Shahed-129, would be expected to be flying over the battlefield constantly.

Armed drone is expensive, slow, vulnerable and carries small payload.

 

[ultron]

The missile is being fired when it is known that there is a target somewhere behind a building, but there is no clear line of sight for direct fire. The missile rises up and the target is seen from above, so the operator marks the target and the missile goes down for the prey.

Mind you some infantrymen requesting immediate fire support from AT squad:
- There is an enemy vehicle firing on us right now!! It stands near the building!
-- What building?
- The fucking big red building!
-- Eh, sorry, we are on the other side of that building, we can't see it. But wait there, we will request an armed drone from the airforce, it will be here in 20 minutes.

a mortar is far cheaper and more effective than Spike NLOS

 

[DavidSling]

Armed drone is expensive, slow, vulnerable and carries small payload.

You guys should stop responding to this troll

 

[Natan]

a mortar is far cheaper and more effective than Spike NLOS

Spike NLOS has a range of over 25 km, and ANY Spike is much more accurate than a mortar and provides damage assessment to the operator, unlike mortar shells.

I'm tired with this, and I'm not going to debunk such stupid claims anymore.

 

[Serpentine]

It shows in video I posted. Targets concealed by hill, trees or buildings.

How can it use fire and forget if the target is concealed? Someone has to guide the missile until target gets in line of sight, right?

And btw, how does a fire and forget ATGM work? What if target moves while missile is flying to target?

 

[ultron]

How can it use fire and forget if the target is concealed? Someone has to guide the missile until target gets in line of sight, right?

And btw, how does a fire and forget ATGM work? What if target moves while missile is flying to target?

My guess is Spike NLOS is fired the same way as a howitzer round and the crew can remote steer it via a video camera at the front.

 

[AmirPatriot]

Armed drone is expensive, slow, vulnerable and carries small payload.

Armed drone can also be used for tactical reconnaissance, so it is a multirole asset that makes the cost worthwhile. Plus, many MALE UCAVs carry 4-8 ATGMs, which isn't too bad at all.

And however slow they are, they are faster than people and AFVs. Heavy CAS aircraft and attack helicopters are more of a upper tier asset.

 

[500]

How can it use fire and forget if the target is concealed? Someone has to guide the missile until target gets in line of sight, right?

And btw, how does a fire and forget ATGM work? What if target moves while missile is flying to target?

1) Fire and forget works like a MANPADS: you lock the seeker on target before the launch push launch button and then u can go away. Missile guides by itself. This is how work:

US Javelin
Israeli Spike MR
Japanese Type 01 LMAT
Chinese HJ-12

It also called LOBL (Lock-on Before Launch). You can't target a concealed target in this mode.

Spike MR ER NLOS in addition to fire and forget have fire and update mode, which allows switching targets in flight. Lock on target after launch (LOAL), it also allows u to chose the exact point of impact on locked target.

This is example of fire and forget LOBL mode:

(Dots around the cross marker indicate that the target is locked).

This is Lock-On After Launch mode (0:38-052):

First it was flying manually towards a concealed target and then it locked on it (dots appear).

And here example of switching targets:

Before the launch it was locked on one target and after it switched to another (which u could not see before launch).

 

[ultron]

1) Fire and forget works like a MANPADS: you lock the seeker on target before the launch push launch button and then u can go away. Missile guides by itself. This is how work:

US Javelin
Israeli Spike MR
Japanese Type 01 LMAT
Chinese HJ-12

It also called LOBL (Lock-on Before Launch). You can't target a concealed target in this mode.

Spike MR ER NLOS in addition to fire and forget have fire and update mode, which allows switching targets in flight. Lock on target after launch (LOAL), it also allows u to chose the exact point of impact on locked target.

This is example of fire and forget LOBL mode:

(Dots around the cross marker indicate that the target is locked).

This is Lock-On After Launch mode (0:38-052):

First it was flying manually towards a concealed target and then it locked on it (dots appear).

And here example of switching targets:

Before the launch it was locked on one target and after it switched to another (which u could not see before launch).

I do think this is more advertisement than actual utility. It's like LM claiming F-22 the RCS of a bug. Nothing but advertisement. Now, the tactic I would prefer is small recon drone like Raven followed up by howitzer or mortar barrage. Cheaper and safer that way.

 

[500]

Armed drone can also be used for tactical reconnaissance, so it is a multirole asset that makes the cost worthwhile. Plus, many MALE UCAVs carry 4-8 ATGMs, which isn't too bad at all.

And however slow they are, they are faster than people and AFVs. Heavy CAS aircraft and attack helicopters are more of a upper tier asset.

For tactical reconnaissance u are using small UAVs like Raven (2 kg):

Or Scan Eagle (18 kg)

The smallest American armed UAV is MQ-1 Predator with 1000 kg weight. It carries 2 Hellfire missiles.

 

[ultron]

The smallest American armed UAV is MQ-1 Predator with 1000 kg weight. It carries 2 Hellfire missiles.

Shahed 129 carries 4. Fotros I believe carries 8. The key is to have direct control not via satellite to reduce lag time to a tiny fraction of a second.

 

[500]

I do think this is more advertisement than actual utility. It's like LM claiming F-22 the RCS of a bug.

Spike was sold to many countries and successfully tested there + used in wars.

https://defence.pk/threads/azerbaij...tary-development.201285/page-142#post-8237275

Now, the tactic I would prefer is small recon drone like Raven followed up by howitzer or mortar barrage. Cheaper and safer that way.

Howitzer weights 30 tons and it has accuracy +- 50 meters. In order to destroy a tank with howitzer u will need to fire dozens rounds. In many cases like populated city u cant use artillery. Firing artillery is not safe, since enemy can employ artillery radars and counter battery fire.

Spike launcher can be transported by one man and it has a pinpoint accuracy.

Shahed 129 carries 4. Fotros I believe carries 8. The key is to have direct control not via satellite to reduce lag time to a tiny fraction of a second.

How did it succeed vs. ISIS suicide bombers in recent Raqqa offensive?

 

[ultron]

How did it succeed vs. ISIS suicide bombers in recent Raqqa offensive?

IS suicide bombers number in the thousands.

 

[Serpentine]

1) Fire and forget works like a MANPADS: you lock the seeker on target before the launch push launch button and then u can go away. Missile guides by itself. This is how work:

US Javelin
Israeli Spike MR
Japanese Type 01 LMAT
Chinese HJ-12

It also called LOBL (Lock-on Before Launch). You can't target a concealed target in this mode.

Spike MR ER NLOS in addition to fire and forget have fire and update mode, which allows switching targets in flight. Lock on target after launch (LOAL), it also allows u to chose the exact point of impact on locked target.

This is example of fire and forget LOBL mode:

(Dots around the cross marker indicate that the target is locked).

This is Lock-On After Launch mode (0:38-052):

First it was flying manually towards a concealed target and then it locked on it (dots appear).

And here example of switching targets:

Before the launch it was locked on one target and after it switched to another (which u could not see before launch).

Thanks. And about updating target after launch, it's the operator that should decide whether he wants to change the target or not, right?

And about the footage of the missile moving towards target, how is it transmitted to the operator? Is it like typical analogue tv transmission?

 

[500]

Thanks. And about updating target after launch, it's the operator that should decide whether he wants to change the target or not, right?

Yes of course.

And about the footage of the missile moving towards target, how is it transmitted to the operator? Is it like typical analogue tv transmission?

Spike LR and ER (4 and 8 km range) use fiber optic link.

Spike NLOS uses radio communication.

By the way the reason why Javelin and Spike MR have only 2.5 km range is that because they have only fire and forget LOBL mode and seeker cant lock at higher ranges. The missiles themselves can fly over 4 km.