Russian radar in Armenia to block an US/Israeli strike on Iran from the nor

[Cem_]

@ S-19

I have never disrespected Turkey? You should have a closer look at my posts. If you think that by criticising Turkey's inclusion of NATO and by saying (the truth) that Turkey cannot stand in front of Russia (conventionally and nuclear) I have disrespected Turkey then you are wrong.

No, i do agree with you on that about NATO part, but what i mean is something different, you openly claimed several times that Russia will destroy/nuke/vaporize bla bla Turkey first in case of a clash with NATO, that is what made me angry..

 

[silko]

I have never disrespected Turkey? You should have a closer look at my posts. If you think that by criticising Turkey's inclusion of NATO and by saying (the truth) that Turkey cannot stand in front of Russia (conventionally and nuclear) I have disrespected Turkey then you are wrong.

we know what we need, being in NATO is supported by the people as you can see. we don't need some outsider to tell us to get out of NATO.

it's like USA telling Russia to abandon nukes because USA can destroy entire Russian federation with it's nukes.

Russia who couldn't even defeat the Georgian army is going to take a stand on NATO's second biggest armed force? please go educate yourself instead of watching youtube videos of old soviet military.

the "truth" as you call it is BS. Turkey has stood up against several countries in it's independence war, you think they can't stand against "the mighty Russia"?

what you believe doesn't concern us, get that into your head. we don't care if some communism supporting socialist who is ashamed of his identity want's us out of NATO.

 

[Cem_]

@ Silko

we know what we need, being in NATO is supported by the people as you can see. we don't need some outsider to tell us to get out of NATO.

Who is the people? you mean some brainless chickens like you so talk for yourself.. Turkiye must be fully independent there is no other option!! That's the stance of the patriots of Turkey.. i almost go crazy when some fanboys like you keep viewing NATO as our friends.. In reality, they are not.. They support PKK openly, period! what else more do you want to see the truth?

 

[King Solomon]

@ S-19


No, i do agree with you on that about NATO part, but what i mean is something different, you openly claimed several times that Russia will destroy/nuke/vaporize bla bla Turkey first in case of a clash with NATO, that is what made me angry..

I do agree I got carried away when making those posts due to the racist insults of "Ottoman-Turk" and some other members. I apologize for that.

 

[LeGenD]

Why don't you quote the whole research paper? The assessment has been written by Roger McDermott, who is a research fellow in the US. As can be seen by his false rants in the first paragraph, he is heavily biased against Russia.

He is heavily biased against Russia? How have you deduced this? Just because he is a western analyst?

Why don't you pay attention to comments of Russian General Makarov? Is he biased too?

The fancy toys shown on the media do not give the whole picture. Russian military is a mixture of extremely advanced and extremely outdated technologies.

However, point is that Russian military has its share of shortcomings and they are not minor.

People don't understand it is the result that counts.

Yes, and Russian performance in wars since WW-II has not been so great.

Yes, Russia defeated Georgia and Chechnya (in second attempt). But these are small and militarily weak states.

Each US aircraft carrier can be sunk by one of Russia's hypersonics.

In theory.

We need to consider the defensive capabilities of the whole carrier group. No US aircraft carrier works alone.

Military strategy is based on a overall assessment of both sides. Not just "how many ships you got".

This is exactly what Roger McDermott has done in his assessment, which is excellent and detailed.

We do recognise that we need to improve further. With the recent upsurge in Russian economy, its just a matter of time.

Russian military needs to improve A LOT actually.

 

[King Solomon]

@ S-19


No, i do agree with you on that about NATO part, but what i mean is something different, you openly claimed several times that Russia will destroy/nuke/vaporize bla bla Turkey first in case of a clash with NATO, that is what made me angry..

I explained my stand on whether Turkey should include itself in NATO here: http://www.defence.pk/forums/turkey-defence/171214-turkey-contained-9.html#post2791967

He is heavily biased against Russia? How have you deduced this? Just because he is a western analyst?

If you read the first paragraph, you will see his heavy bias against Russia. He is almost a NATO spokesman at that. About General Marakov, he quoted one of the many generals, just because his views are similar to that of him. His analysis is not a neutral one at that, thus, I discredit the crux of his analysis.

 

[Cem_]

@ S-19

I do agree I got carried away when making those posts due to the racist insults of "Ottoman-Turk" and some other members. I apologize for that.

You are lying, i've readed all the posts of Ottoman-Turk and the others aswell, he was just reacting to your hate, you just showed off your true face nothing more.. We don't need backstabbers, once traitor always traitor, so your apologize has been rejected.

 

[King Solomon]

@ S-19



You are lying, i've readed all the posts of Ottoman-Turk and the others aswell, he was just reacting to your hate, you just showed your true face with you posts nothing more.. We don't need backstabbers, so your apologize is not accepted.

I expected better from you. Anyway, I still stand by the opinion that Turkey has no chance against Russia. Think whatever you want to think.

 

[King Solomon]

we know what we need, being in NATO is supported by the people as you can see. we don't need some outsider to tell us to get out of NATO.

it's like USA telling Russia to abandon nukes because USA can destroy entire Russian federation with it's nukes.

Russia who couldn't even defeat the Georgian army is going to take a stand on NATO's second biggest armed force? please go educate yourself instead of watching youtube videos of old soviet military.

the "truth" as you call it is BS. Turkey has stood up against several countries in it's independence war, you think they can't stand against "the mighty Russia"?

what you believe doesn't concern us, get that into your head. we don't care if some communism supporting socialist who is ashamed of his identity want's us out of NATO.

Your dream of being included in the western club? Turkey have been trying that for 300 years, right from Napoleon times! Yet, Turkey made little progress compared to Europe in these 300 years. They FINALLY included Turkey in NATO to use Turkey like an expendable buffer against Russia/China. Turkey would be the first one to be targeted and destroyed in any Russian retaliation.

Even after taking Turkey in NATO, they rejected you from EU and humiliated you by passing laws criminalizing denial of Armenian genocide. Still eager to be included in their 'club'?

 

[lem34]

I expected better from you. Anyway, I still stand by the opinion that Turkey has no chance against Russia. Think whatever you want to think.

Turkey and all other countries in Nato have given away their right to make foreign policy in return for American protection. You can not compare the two. Can you imagine Turks doing a Georgia I don't think so. We here love our Turkish brothers cos that is how we have been brought up. But let us not get deluded and think Turks can really do something that Americans wont accept and of course Americans are dictated to by AIPAC and Tel Aviv

 

[King Solomon]

Turkey and all other countries in Nato have given away their right to make foreign policy in return for American protection. You can not compare the two. Can you imagine Turks doing a Georgia I don't think so. We here love our Turkish brothers cos that is how we have been brought up. But let us not get deluded and think Turks can really do something that Americans wont accept and of course Americans are dictated to by AIPAC and Tel Aviv

Exactly, that is the situation at present. Unfortunately, people think you hate and disrespect Turkey if you state the truth.

 

[lem34]

Your dream of being included in the western club? Turkey have been trying that for 300 years, right from Napoleon times! Yet, Turkey made little progress compared to Europe in these 300 years. They FINALLY included Turkey in NATO to use Turkey like an expendable buffer against Russia/China. Turkey would be the first one to be targeted and destroyed in any Russian retaliation.

Even after taking Turkey in NATO, they rejected you from EU and humiliated you by passing laws criminalizing denial of Armenian genocide. Still eager to be included in their 'club'?

Because they are not Christian simple as that



Washington, Dec 11: The United States diplomatic cables released by whistle-blowing website WikiLeaks has exposed that Vatican had tried to crack Muslim state Turkey's entry to European Union (EU).

The latest cables published in Guardian revealed that a cable sent from US embassy to the Holy See in Rome in 2004 claimed Cardinal Ratzinger, current Pope Benedict XVI, spoke out against letting Turkey to join EU.

In the cables, US diplomat said about Ratzinger "clearly understands that allowing a Muslim country into the EU would further weaken his case for Europe's Christian foundations".

 

[King Solomon]

Because they are not Christian simple as that



Washington, Dec 11: The United States diplomatic cables released by whistle-blowing website WikiLeaks has exposed that Vatican had tried to crack Muslim state Turkey's entry to European Union (EU).

The latest cables published in Guardian revealed that a cable sent from US embassy to the Holy See in Rome in 2004 claimed Cardinal Ratzinger, current Pope Benedict XVI, spoke out against letting Turkey to join EU.

In the cables, US diplomat said about Ratzinger "clearly understands that allowing a Muslim country into the EU would further weaken his case for Europe's Christian foundations".

Exactly, the sad thing is they have been trying so for the last 300 years to get "accepted" in the western 'club'. When Turkey assumed its own identity in 1500s and 1600s, it was a great power in Europe, no denying that.

This obsession had destroyed Ottomans, they imported European culture but forgot to import industrialization. Kemalists tried the same thing by trying to convert Turkish muslims to atheists to be more "acceptable" in the eyes of Europe. Unfortunately for the Kemalists, converting 97% muslim to atheists is no easy job and Turkey faced numerous coups and political destabilization. Only in the past decade when Erdogan stopped those childish attempts did Turkey gain some respect.

Anyway I sincerely hope Turkey can assume its own (islamic) identity in the future.

 

[LeGenD]

If you read the first paragraph, you will see his heavy bias against Russia. He is almost a NATO spokesman at that. About General Marakov, he quoted one of the many generals, just because his views are similar to that of him. His analysis is not a neutral one at that, thus, I discredit the crux of his analysis.

Then you have no idea of how western analysts work.

Remember the propaganda dubbed as Millennium Challenge 2002 (MC02) and the critcism that followed it? This is sufficient hint for any smart person.

Western analysts tend to be highly critical about almost every subject.

McDermott is not praising Georgia either:

Arguably the rapid collapse of the Georgian armed forces, however, was more a result of Georgia military weakness, poor management, and limited combat capabilities, than anything accurately reflecting the prowess of Russia’s armed forces.

His assessment makes absolute sense. McDermott is a neutral source; he is neither Russian and nor Georgian.

Turkey and all other countries in Nato have given away their right to make foreign policy in return for American protection. You can not compare the two. Can you imagine Turks doing a Georgia I don't think so. We here love our Turkish brothers cos that is how we have been brought up. But let us not get deluded and think Turks can really do something that Americans wont accept and of course Americans are dictated to by AIPAC and Tel Aviv

If Turkey can refuse to allow its territory to be used for conducting military operations in neighbouring countries to even USA; it can certainly pull off Georgia.

Turkey is a great military power and an important regional player.

 

[lem34]

Turkey is a great military power and an important regional player.

Notwithstanding what you say they are still a part of Nato and as the largest contributor being America clearly they have the most influence, unless Turkey was to leave Nato which I doubt they would consider America has considerable hold over Turkey policy. As Islamabad found out to it's cost at the regional Afghani conference last year in Turkey