Russia to make strategic shift to Pakistan as India makes bonhomie with America

[he-man]

Language and culture are never an issue if due respect and honor is given. I can show you 3rd generation Bangladeshis on this very forum who still love Pakistan as their brainchild, their idea, their own country but have a sadness inside their hearts that the west Pakistanis never considered us as their own...during a cricket match between Pakistan and india, they still cheer for Pakistan and its been 50 years since their independence.

Anyways, back on topic.

There is difference between theory and practical.......subcontinent is especially the most backward place on earth wrt to respecting the other person's diversity.

And yes,back to the topic.

 

[PurpleStone]

1)They have no money for su-35

Pakistan has always pulled rabbit out of the hat. Remember Pakistan pulled off getting the Nukes which many countries have been struggling.

2)If russia is stupid enough to sell them s-400 ,we can always try to get THAAD from USA.

No one is preventing India from getting THAAD. Also, Russia is doing quite well with S-400 sales. It is India which has been standing in the line with a begging bowl to get its turn. Russia had even linked S-400 to FGFA deal which has now been cancelled.

3)RD-33 is nothing special whether they get it directly from russia or through china.

It is better than RD-93.

This changes nothing and is just a speculation.Pakistan is simply not lucrative enough vs india for weapons sales.

It is no longer either or. Russia will sell to both India and Pakistan. India no longer has leverage to prevent Russian weapons sales to Pakistan. This has been true for more than a decade now.

Its not soviet union of the pre 1991......

True. One could argue that Russia is stronger than USSR as it no longer carries the burden of protecting the erst while Warsaw pact countries. Russia will continue to intervene wherever its security is being challenged be it Georgia, Crimea/Ukraine or Syria.

 

[GumNaam]

There is difference between theory and practical.......subcontinent is especially the most backward place on earth wrt to respecting the other person's diversity.

And yes,back to the topic.

it maybe backwards, but at least for Muslims, there always the Islamic roots and they run far deeper than any ethnic root could ever run. The Islamic roots transcend all bounds of race, language, culture, etc PROVIDED the proclaimed followers actually pay attention to it. This was not the case during and before 1971. The pan-Islamic roots were NOT as deep as they should have been in Pakistan in those days. Today, those Islamic roots are rightfully taking a deep hold in the minds of Pakistanis (and Bangladeshis and Muslims of india) as a natural side effect of the changing global geo-political scenario.

Muslims of the subcontinent AT LEAST, are starting to think, that at the end of the day, when push comes to shove, each other is ALL that we have. There is a reason why the so called "arab spring" failed to take roots in Pakistan in the form of "pashtoon spring" or "balochi spring", etc in spite of the best efforts by both the indian and western intelligence agencies. The widespread use of internet and the stark videos and images of the plight and suffering of the syrian, yemeni, palestinian, kashmiri and indian rohingian Muslims has given the common Pakistani on the ground regardless of his ethicity or culture a moment to pause and think that why is all this happening only to Muslims. Whenever I go back home and whenever I ask even the common thayla vala or a rickshaw driver that why don't the masses come out on the streets against the corrupt system, I consistently get a simple answer of "syria public nikli thi baher, daikh liya kia hua? humay apna yeh haal nahi karvana"!

 

[he-man]

it maybe backwards, but at least for Muslims

U have just proven my point....thanks.

 

[GumNaam]

U have just proven my point....thanks.

cutting and pasting out of context sub-paraphrases is SOOOO 1995 and doesn't prove anything.

for hindus though, yes the backwardness is baked into that religion itself.

 

[he-man]

Pakistan has always pulled rabbit out of the hat. Remember Pakistan pulled off getting the Nukes which many countries have been struggling.



No one is preventing India from getting THAAD. Also, Russia is doing quite well with S-400 sales. It is India which has been standing in the line with a begging bowl to get its turn. Russia had even linked S-400 to FGFA deal which has now been cancelled.



It is better than RD-93.



It is no longer either or. Russia will sell to both India and Pakistan. India no longer has leverage to prevent Russian weapons sales to Pakistan. This has been true for more than a decade now.



True. One could argue that Russia is stronger than USSR as it no longer carries the burden of protecting the erst while Warsaw pact countries. Russia will continue to intervene wherever its security is being challenged be it Georgia, Crimea/Ukraine or Syria.

1)No one cares what pakistan gets or not from russia when we can get superior stuff from the west....albeit costlier i agree

2)We will get s-400 and su-57 both and there is no link between those deals.Just we wont invest in the su-57 and cant market it as joint development,it will be su-57 mki just like su-30mki

3)rd-93 or 33 dont matter when we have access to western engines which are actually superior in life span by thousands of hours(its a fact)...........for instance the engine on mki has service life of just 2000 hours with no FADEC when modern westen engine like m-88 in rafale have 4000+ ,possibly 6000 hours service life.
Only the new 117s in su-35 fairs better here.

4)Russia is pretty weak and isolated at the moment with a growth rate of 1-2 % average so the economy is stagnant at best.It has lost its manufacturing plants for helicopter engines to ukraine and shipbyards too.
They simply cannot compete with the west.

cutting and pasting out of context sub-paraphrases is SOOOO 1995 and doesn't prove anything.

for hindus though, yes the backwardness is baked into that religion itself.

There is no hindu or sikh or muslim in me mate.....try reason sometimes without bringing religion to the forefront.
Religions change,humanity should remain intact.

 

[GumNaam]

There is no hindu or sikh or muslim in me mate.....try reason sometimes without bringing religion to the forefront.
Religions change,humanity should remain intact.

I never said it was in you or not. That is irrelevant. NOT bringing religion to the forefront, especially in the indian social landscape, would be akin to an ignorant ostrich that has its head stuck in the ground. religion IS a part and parcel of what an individual in the subcontinent in particular and in the world in general is. You maybe a minority, but for most people in the world, it is starting to (if not already has) define who they are. That's a cold hard fact that cannot be ignored.

 

[PurpleStone]

1)No one cares what pakistan gets or not from russia when we can get superior stuff from the west....albeit costlier i agree

Well India does and should care about what and from where Pakistan could procure as they are one of the potential rival/enemy that India has. Yes, India can now get equipment from the West but Pakistan had been and continues to get equipment from the West. So Pakistan now has access to West, Russia & China to procure their equipment.

2)We will get s-400 and su-57 both and there is no link between those deals.Just we wont invest in the su-57 and cant market it as joint development,it will be su-57 mki just like su-30mki

Let's see how this pans out.

3)rd-93 or 33 dont matter when we have access to western engines which are actually superior in life span by thousands of hours(its a fact)...........for instance the engine on mki has service life of just 2000 hours with no FADEC when modern westen engine like m-88 in rafale have 4000+ ,possibly 6000 hours service life.
Only the new 117s in su-35 fair better here.

Yes. India may get access to technologies from the West but West would always restrict the ToT. Also, India had always fought the battles on two fronts 1) What technologies that India could get 2) How India could prevent Pakistan getting the technologies

Pakistan has out grown the Indian leverage and has now handsomely defeated India in the second battle. Even in the first battle, Pakistan is ahead of India as it has access to more sources to procure.

4)Russia is pretty weak and isolated at the moment with a growth rate of 1-2 % average so the economy is stagnant at best.It has lost its manufacturing plants for helicopter engines to ukraine and shipbyards too.
They simply cannot compete with the west.

O&G prices are going up again. There are many technologies where Russia is ahead. It is foolish to think Russia is no longer relevant.

 

[he-man]

I never said it was in you or not. That is irrelevant. NOT bringing religion to the forefront, especially in the indian social landscape, would be akin to an ignorant ostrich that has its head stuck in the ground. religion IS a part and parcel of what an individual in the subcontinent in particular and in the world in general is. You maybe a minority, but for most people in the world, it is starting to (if not already has) define who they are. That's a cold hard fact that cannot be ignored.

It changes every 2000-3000 years............this time it will be obsolete for good in 2-3 generations(40-50 years).
Most people in the west(atleast whites anyways) are agnostics and this proportion is growing exponentially every year.

Lets not derail the thread.

Well India does and should care about what and from where Pakistan could procure as they are one of the potential rival/enemy that India has. Yes, India can now get equipment from the West but Pakistan had been and continues to get equipment from the West. So Pakistan now has access to West, Russia & China to procure their equipment.



Let's see how this pans out.



Yes. India may get access to technologies from the West but West would always restrict the ToT. Also, India had always fought the battles on two fronts 1) What technologies that India could get 2) How India could prevent Pakistan getting the technologies

Pakistan has out grown the Indian leverage and has now handsomely defeated India in the second battle. Even in the first battle, Pakistan is ahead of India as it has access to more sources to procure.



O&G prices are going up again. There are many technologies where Russia is ahead. It is foolish to think Russia is no longer relevant.

U need to research more on defence.......i cant keep on explaining everything.

 

[GumNaam]

It changes every 2000-3000 years............this time it will be obsolete for good in 2-3 generations(40-50 years).
Most people in the west(atleast whites anyways) are agnostics and this proportion is growing exponentially every year.

dude, I live here, you know that right? You have NO idea how deep the christian roots run. Now you maybe right about the 2000 to 3000 years part. Islam isn't even 1500 years old so let's see. But given the nature of Islam, I can guarantee you that it would outlast most religions and that too, by the very will of the thinking minds. But don't take my word for it. Feel free to study The Quran yourself and you'll know what I mean.

 

[PurpleStone]

dude, I live here, you know that right? You have NO idea how deep the christian roots run. Now you maybe right about the 2000 to 3000 years part. Islam isn't even 1500 years old so let's see. But given the nature of Islam, I can guarantee you that it would outlast most religions and that too, by the very will of the thinking minds. But don't take my word for it. Feel free to study The Quran yourself and you'll know what I mean.

I agree. Islam is the only religion that would still be alive by 2050.

 

[YeBeWarned]

we are expecting too much from Russians .. better keep a level head

 

[GumNaam]

we are expecting too much from Russians .. better keep a level head

well? The bottom line is that Russia doesn't have anything to offer to us that we don't already get from China...

 

[YeBeWarned]

well? The bottom line is that Russia doesn't have anything to offer to us that we don't already get from China...

they sure does have a lot to offer but they wont ..

 

[GumNaam]

they sure does have a lot to offer but they wont ..

the fact is that we don't need it. Right now, GHQ is doing the right thing to build a robust indigenous weapons industry.