Russia stops China from handing its engines to Pak for fighters

[fatman17]

why would china continue to import the RD-93 engines when it has no use for them. PLAAF is not interested in the F-1/JF-17 as they have the J-10 now.

 

[su-47]

One thing thats sure is that JF-17 program cannot be stopped by Russia blocking the engines. The chinese will bring out the WS-13 in the near future. All India achieves by making russia block the RD-93 is delaying the JF-17 till LCA comes out

 

[Titanium]

Thats the best the political chanukyas cometo, to shield their incompetency?

 

[kvLin]

Glad to know.

Thanks for sharing.

Good to see you after sometime.

Webby,give me informations you have for JF-17 on cruising range and avionics, to see if mine differs. I remember one of your generals said recently that JF-17 can counter Su-30MKI or something like that, he might be overconfident but absolutely no child to say so without any clue. 611 is indeed an institute of action.

 

[mxiong]

胡问鸣说:昨天刚拿到许可文件，现在俄方已同意枭龙出口

美军飞行员体验枭龙 对数字化功能印象深刻
星岛环球网 Ðǵº»·ÇòÍø
【星岛网讯】俄罗斯第八届国际航空航天展览会8月21日开幕当天，中国航空工业第一集团公司展区中的“枭龙”战斗机训练模拟器成为了参观者关注的热点。在展会现场的美国飞行员在亲身体验了“枭龙”性能后表示，“你们这款战斗机的数字化功能令我印象深刻。”

　　据《国际先驱导报》报道，在展会现场，“枭龙”训练模拟器的正前方墙上悬挂三块大型彩色液晶屏，模拟座舱内的视野。它们上方还挂着两块稍小的彩屏，分别显示飞机的空中姿态和地面的情况。

　　训练模拟器本身，无论从外观大小，还是内部设置，都是模拟真实飞机座舱而建，只不过没有舱盖。成都飞机设计研究所工程师贺卫东说:“此次展出的是中国惟一一台，也是最基础的‘枭龙’训练模拟器，生产方可根据客户需求加装必要设备。建造一台普通‘枭龙’训练模拟器花费数千万元人民币。该模拟器可演练航空、作战等多项任务，能够帮助飞行员熟悉不同飞行高度、距离和方位以及感知态势。”

　　亲身体验了“枭龙”的杰森在谈起它与美军F-16战机的区别时，也特别提到了前者座舱内操作面板上的三块多功能显示屏，并大加赞赏。“两者在操纵杆和其他仪器布局方面也有所不同”。他说:“因为时间太短，没有熟悉‘枭龙’全部功能，因此我没办法完全比较两种战机的性能。不过，你们这款战斗机的数字化功能令我印象深刻。”

　　中国一航副总经理胡问鸣表示，“枭龙”在火控系统和操纵灵活性等方面表现不俗，但在续航能力和高度方面与F-16还有差距。

　　贺卫东说，熟练的飞行员在空中完成从发现目标到将其击中的一系列动作只有几十秒，“反应的速度要像打乒乓球那样快”。“为了抓住稍纵即逝的战机，战斗机研制单位大都通过提高飞机机动性来争取更多一点的时间，‘枭龙’也不例外。”

　　“枭龙”由中国和巴基斯坦联合研制，中方称FC-1，巴方则称JF-17“雷电”战斗机。对于中方来说，这是第一种完全基于市场需要而研制的战机。

　　此前有报道称，由于俄罗斯官员不允许中国将装有俄制RD-93型发动机的“枭龙”出售给巴基斯坦，因此，外界对于这款战斗机的命运一度有颇多猜测。而俄罗斯《生意人报》今年4月报道称，俄方已同中方达成了用RD-93型发动机共同组装“枭龙”战机并向第三国出口的协议，而且得益于普京总统亲自拍板。胡问鸣说:“昨天刚拿到许可的文件，现在俄方已同意‘枭龙’可以出口到包括巴基斯坦在内的10个国家”。

　　据业内人士分析，“枭龙”在国际市场其他潜在客户还包括孟加拉国、伊朗、埃及、尼日利亚以及其他亚非国家，甚至一些拉美国家也有可能购买。胡问鸣说，目前已有两架“枭龙”交付巴基斯坦，今年还将继续交付六架。

　　此前，巴基斯坦防务专家塔拉特·马苏德中将表示，一架全新F-16的售价大约为3000万美元，而巴方订购的“枭龙”战机价格约为每架800万美元。考虑到巴基斯坦投资参与了此前的研制工作，所以“枭龙”面向其他国家的售价估计在1000万到1500万美元之间。即便如此，仍然远低于F-16。

The article basically says at the Moscow Aero the VP of AVIC I told the reporter they just got the document from Russian government which permits china to export FC-1 to ten nations including Pakistan. And also a USAF F-16 pilot tried the FC-1 simulator and was very impressed by the glass cockpit .

 

[fatman17]

the logic with the russians on the rd-93 engines sales was that if they wont sell the engines, then someone else will, so why lose out on the sale.

 

[Bull]

the logic with the russians on the rd-93 engines sales was that if they wont sell the engines, then someone else will, so why lose out on the sale.

Thats rubbish. Europe and America wont, then who is this ' somebody else'?

 

[BATMAN]

The article basically says at the Moscow Aero the VP of AVIC I told the reporter they just got the document from Russian government which permits china to export FC-1 to ten nations including Pakistan. And also a USAF F-16 pilot tried the FC-1 simulator and was very impressed by the glass cockpit .

Sound's encouraging news.
What was the occasion when US pilot was sitting in JF-17/FC-1 simulator (first picture) ?

 

[BATMAN]

One thing thats sure is that JF-17 program cannot be stopped by Russia blocking the engines. The chinese will bring out the WS-13 in the near future. All India achieves by making russia block the RD-93 is delaying the JF-17 till LCA comes out

I agree very much.
I have the feeling that neither PAF is very intrested to induct JF-17 with RD-93. I think most of the jets with RD-93 are meant for export. One thing is sure that Russia cannot block the deliveries of RD-93 to China so blocking deliveries to Pakistan does not even hurt exports, hence blocking the re-export of RD-93 to Pakistan does not make much difference.
It seems PAF is more interested to induct JF-17 equiped with WS-13 instead of RD-93.
Due to these signs, it can be predicted that WS-13 if not better than at least is a match to RD-93 and will be comming out very soon, perhaps in another year or so.

 

[mxiong]

Sound's encouraging news.
What was the occasion when US pilot was sitting in JF-17/FC-1 simulator (first picture) ?

At the Moscow Aerosalon 2007.

 

[IceCold]

I agree very much.
I have the feeling that neither PAF is very intrested to induct JF-17 with RD-93. I think most of the jets with RD-93 are meant for export. One thing is sure that Russia cannot block the deliveries of RD-93 to China so blocking deliveries to Pakistan does not even hurt exports, hence blocking the re-export of RD-93 to Pakistan does not make much difference.
It seems PAF is more interested to induct JF-17 equiped with WS-13 instead of RD-93.
Due to these signs, it can be predicted that WS-13 if not better than at least is a match to RD-93 and will be comming out very soon, perhaps in another year or so.

Well china developed WS-10A for their j-10 but it wasnt successful either because the engine took 50% and in somecases 100% long to reach the same amount of performance as compared to the russian AL-31 turbofan engine, which suggest that although china can produce or reverse engineer (what ever we call) engines, still it lacks the expertise to make it a full 100%. So how can we be sure about WS-13 if RD-93 is blocked, it will match the performance?

 

[fatman17]

delivery pf the rd-93 depends on a few things which will happen soon
1. india - us nuke deal approval will pave the way for the MRCA order of 126 a/c to be awarded to boeing and its f-18.
if the above takes place then russia will allow the export of its engines as well as other direct sales of weapons systems to pakistan.
2, if the MRCA order goes to russia for the MIG-31(?) then we can say good-bye to the rd-93.
3, we dont know about the performance of the ws-13 but if pakistan is forced to use the ws-13, it will require a complete re-working of the piping and wiring in the jf-17 which means further delay. chinese engines performance being un-satisfactory is the main reason china is buying engines from russia for its j-10 a/c