Russia seeks to sell stealth jets to Korea

[amalakas]

F-35 beat 2 F-22's in recent training. Located and jammed thier radars from range.

what ?? it jammed the unjammable ??? ...wow don't tell Gambit that...!!!

 

[below_freezing]

Russia might as well sell the T-50 straight to USA.

South Koreans are OK as individuals but their government is *** kissing slave of the US. Every South Korean president takes huge amounts of black money and US knows it, that's why every South Korean president (except the one sitting in office right now) has either been exiled, killed in a coup or sentenced to death.

 

[AerospaceEngineer]

F-35 beat 2 F-22's in recent training. Located and jammed thier radars from range.

Stop this.

F-35 is NO match against F-22 in any form of air to air combat.

There is a reason US is trying to sell F-35, and Banned the export of F-22!!

 

[AerospaceEngineer]

Also, Russia has no chance of selling their T-50 to South Korea.

10 years ago, the French tried to sell their Rafale to South Korea, and claimed that Rafale is "superior" to F-15E. Yet it was Beaten by F-15E in that competetion!

The only country Russia can sell their T-50 to is India!

 

[Thomas]

Stop this.

F-35 is NO match against F-22 in any form of air to air combat.

There is a reason US is trying to sell F-35, and Banned the export of F-22!!

where the F-35 is superior is it's electronics. I will requalify my statement though it was the F-35 testbed aircraft that acomplished it.

there is a reason they want to upgrade the F-22's electronics to be more on par with the F-35.

 

[ptldM3]

Also, Russia has no chance of selling their T-50 to South Korea.

Yet South Korea operates Russian weapons.

10 years ago, the French tried to sell their Rafale to South Korea, and claimed that Rafale is "superior" to F-15E. Yet it was Beaten by F-15E in that competetion!

Apart from politics, cost, requirements, and after market support all play critical roles. If you look at the MRCA you will find that even very good aircraft such as the F-18 were eliminated, this does not mean that they are worse than something like a Rafale but that the F-18 did not meet India's requirements. In fact India even tested the MRCA aircraft for high altitude operations among other things. Even if the aircraft the Americans offered had the best avionics, it does not mean that the aircraft met the requirements that the Indians were looking for. The same applies to South Korea, the American have the most influence and can be trusted by Korean standards. The French do not have the same influence and trust--trust as in on time deliveries and after market support.

The only country Russia can sell their T-50 to is India!

Odd considering Sukhoi controls a large share of the aircraft market worldwide.

 

[gambit]

F-35 beat 2 F-22's in recent training. Located and jammed thier radars from range.

Unbeliever...!!! Heathen...!!! Heretic...!!! Blasphemer...!!! Wheeeewww...Had to vent.

Actually...It is very possible if both sides know the operating parameters and limits and one side just happened to be more advanced in the hardware.

I know that the F-16 believers are nearly as fanatical about the aircraft as religious believers do about their beliefs, so for the F-22, as advanced as it is, no doubt there are equal fanatics. Same for the F-15. Very few aircrafts in aviation history can legitimately earn such devotion, such as P-51 Mustang, P-38 Lightning, or F-15. Iconic aircrafts that just like human celebrities who are recognized by their single names, they can be recognized by their names without numerical designations. The F-35, despite its detractors, especially from a certain 'down under' crowd, will earn such devotion.

 

[SQ8]

Unbeliever...!!! Heathen...!!! Heretic...!!! Blasphemer...!!! Wheeeewww...Had to vent.

Actually...It is very possible if both sides know the operating parameters and limits and one side just happened to be more advanced in the hardware.

I know that the F-16 believers are nearly as fanatical about the aircraft as religious believers do about their beliefs, so for the F-22, as advanced as it is, no doubt there are equal fanatics. Same for the F-15. Very few aircrafts in aviation history can legitimately earn such devotion, such as P-51 Mustang, P-38 Lightning, or F-15. Iconic aircrafts that just like human celebrities who are recognized by their single names, they can be recognized by their names without numerical designations. The F-35, despite its detractors, especially from a certain 'down under' crowd, will earn such devotion.

The stated crowd has served as "legitimate western testimony" for many Russian equipment fannies.
Half of the charts and figures bought in to support pro-Sukhoi/Mig arguments come from this "down-under" Kopp-ola.

 

[Zabaniyah]

where the F-35 is superior is it's electronics. I will requalify my statement though it was the F-35 testbed aircraft that acomplished it.

there is a reason they want to upgrade the F-22's electronics to be more on par with the F-35.

F-22's stealth and aerodynamic capabilities are still superior to the F-35 if I am not mistaken. Now, put the same avionics in the F-22 - we have Super Raptor!

 

[Zabaniyah]

Also, Russia has no chance of selling their T-50 to South Korea.

10 years ago, the French tried to sell their Rafale to South Korea, and claimed that Rafale is "superior" to F-15E. Yet it was Beaten by F-15E in that competetion!

The only country Russia can sell their T-50 to is India!

Did you know that the Koreans operate T-80s? There are more Russian stuff they operate.

Who said only India is interested in the T-50? Even Vietnam is apparently interested. I think it has good potential in the export market.

As far as ROK is concerned - The USA has been a long time supplier. It is more of an issue of reliability. Also, Rafale is not doing too well on the export market. Although it is still a formidable fighter.

India's requirements were different. The F-16 and F-18 were rejected on purely technical grounds - they have their own criteria in the evaluation.

 

[Tshering22]

Did you know that the Koreans operate T-80s? There are more Russian stuff they operate.

Wow! I never knew about this man. Do you have any links? I would really like to know about South Korean-Russian defense relationship. It is interesting.

Who said only India is interested in the T-50? Even Vietnam is apparently interested. I think it has good potential in the export market.

Vietnam makes a fine partner but I doubt they would be able to use the PAKFA/FGFA in significant numbers as each would cost between $100-130 million. It can possibly afford a single squadron of high end PAKFA/FGFAs but to get more than that would be difficult even though Vietnamese economy is literally booming in the recent years and much progress has been made by the country.

As far as ROK is concerned - The USA has been a long time supplier. It is more of an issue of reliability. Also, Rafale is not doing too well on the export market. Although it is still a formidable fighter.

Well Rafale might win its first and biggest order anytime soon , if we technically go by specification on the jet, the economics as well as capabilities. Still Koreans lost a great opportunity to become self-reliant and semi-independent in terms of military policies.

India's requirements were different. The F-16 and F-18 were rejected on purely technical grounds - they have their own criteria in the evaluation.

Reason:

F-16: Already used by Pakistanis; has limited usage life; is an old platform even if battle-proven with no visible future.

F-18: Though cutting edge and operated by USN, the ToT requirements as described in the tender are being unable to fulfill due to US Congress restrictions on transfer of core technologies. IAF doesn't really like being hamstrung due to political gaffs or limitations.

 

[Zabaniyah]

Wow! I never knew about this man. Do you have any links? I would really like to know about South Korean-Russian defense relationship. It is interesting.

The T-80 was accepted to service with the Soviet army in 1976 however original version was not built in large numbers. Russia operates a total of 4 500 T-80 main battle tanks of all variants. Other operators are Belarus (92), China (200), Cyprus (41), Kazakhstan, South Korea (80), Syria (320) and Ukraine (271).

Source: T-80 Main Battle Tank | Military-Today.com

Apparently, the Russians sold those T-80s to the Koreans in order to pay off her debts. That was way back in the 90's after the collapse of the USSR.

The numbers aren't exactly clear though. Some say it's 33 while others say it's over 70+

Sorry, couldn't find any pictures of South Korean T-80s.

And if I am not mistaken - countries like Japan and South Korea do get ToT options from the US. I don't think they'll lose any opportunity if they hang on to the US - they are both allies after all, whereas India exactly isn't. And let's be clear here - US equipment are cutting edge of technology, we won't find any better. And couple that with Japanese and Korean technical ingenuity. The Mitsubishi F-2 is basically an F-16 on steroids. The export variants the Russians make don't come anywhere near those standards.

As far as tanks go, I don't think they need to import tanks. They already have very advanced tanks themselves like the K1 and the upcoming K2 Black Panther. The latter is apparently the most expensive tank in the world and comes with many good technical features.

A military always go for the best, never the second best. Yes, that even applies to pacifist Japan.

 

[Tshering22]

Source: T-80 Main Battle Tank | Military-Today.com

Apparently, the Russians sold those T-80s to the Koreans in order to pay off her debts. That was way back in the 90's after the collapse of the USSR.

The numbers aren't exactly clear though. Some say it's 33 while others say it's over 70+

Sorry, couldn't find any pictures of South Korean T-80s.

Thanks a lot mate! That's some fact I never knew until yesterday.

And if I am not mistaken - countries like Japan and South Korea do get ToT options from the US. I don't think they'll lose any opportunity if they hang on to the US - they are both allies after all, whereas India exactly isn't. And let's be clear here - US equipment are cutting edge of technology, we won't find any better. And couple that with Japanese and Korean technical ingenuity.

I agree. But the Japanese and Koreans with their military doctrine hardly use their equipment in order to do anything at all since last 50 years or more despite being needled again and again by North Korea.

The Mitsubishi F-2 is basically an F-16 on steroids. The export variants the Russians make don't come anywhere near those standards.

The F-2 is just an overpriced F-16 that's all. It is so expensive that 3 original F-16s could come in that. It has a good AESA but considering its overall capabilities with modern Russian jets, it is nowhere close except for the radar. Further, it would drain Japanese air force's coffers faster than it would for those who use Russian jets in case of a conflict. A waste of time and a waste of so much money. Even Japanese themselves are wondering why they wasted so much time and so much money on F-2 when they could simply license assemble F-16s in Japan and could have possibly started talks on F-35's indigenous production like how Turkey is doing. This is where their ingenuity failed them.

As far as tanks go, I don't think they need to import tanks. They already have very advanced tanks themselves like the K1 and the upcoming K2 Black Panther. The latter is apparently the most expensive tank in the world and comes with many good technical features.

Making such an expensive tank is not going to serve them any purpose compared to what their enemy is having. K2 might have cutting edge features but east Asians (barring Chinese) have this problem of controlling their initial costs in weapons manufacturing like Europeans, both of whose products have exorbitantly criminal price-tags reducing their prospects of export to only a few showcase rich countries. True that their standards of life is one of the highest but for business sakes, they need to be able to reduce their costs, as well as for military reasons.

With such a terrible price tag in a war scenario with North Korea, the DPRK artilleries which are nothing in terms of price compared to K2 would be causing considerable damage to the K2s even if they technologically lose, therefore needlessly escalating the costs of war for Seoul. Even the M1 Abrams doesn't cost so much.

Technology is a good thing but when it crosses the limits such that the very cost of operating it becomes difficult to manage, it is ridiculous.

A military always go for the best, never the second best. Yes, that even applies to pacifist Japan.

The raptor is not open for offer, the F-35 is still climbing the costs ladder and there is still hesitancy in many partner countries on delays. No doubt it is a solid cutting edge stealth fighter, but Japanese are confused right now with a slew of disasters and a stagnant economy. They are offered Typhoons, Rafales, F-35s and yet still don't know what to do because of their doctrine.

Now applying the same aspects to Koreans who have constantly been needled by North Korean Kims, I think with Lee Myung Bak as the leader they are likely to be militarily more decisive about what to do when an enemy attacks than a confused Japan. With constant harassment from Pyongyang, ROK would shed its inhibitions soon to retaliate fiercely as it happened in the Cheonan incident. That's just the beginning.

Besides the Koreans are looking for their own 5th gen fighter and Indonesia is a participant in the program. I don't see how they would consider Russia though Russian tech is still only second to US despite a 18 year decay after Soviet Collapse.

 

[pmukherjee]

REEVER
do you think f-35 can beat t-50 in dog fight?

The F-35 has run into a lot of trouble, cost overruns, software glitches and delays. The F-35A which was initially planned to given IOC in March 2013 now is likely to be delayed till 2016. Same goes for the F-35C, initially planned for 2015 but now revised estimates point to 2016. The F-35B for the Marines is all but stalled due to its extremely short range. There is a strong lobby in the US Congress which is very critical of the F-35 programme and wants to kill it. It will eventually be inducted, no doubt about that, however the very high costs are likely to greatly reduce the number of F-35s, that we will see in the various air forces around the world.
The F-22 is an operational platform, has been operational for a few years now. It is a great fighter. The best operational stealth fighter currently and is likely to continue to enjoy its lead in the field for some time to come even after the induction of the PAK-FA and the J-20.

 

[Mani2020]

I wonder if this news is true what will be the reaction of Iaf as they are the one who have invested in this project and will be getting 250-300 aircrafts based on T-50 with minor changes , selling 5th generation aircrafts to South Korea is like selling them to US everyone knows about the influence US has over South Korea and a major chunk of South Korea's defence equipment is imported from US , US has access to most of their bases . Will it be in Russia's interest to sell such high-end fighters to a country considered as an ally of Russia's enemy. We all know that what economic position Russia holds and how badly they need money through some big defence deals