Russia jumps on Make in India bandwagon; wants to make choppers, satellites, jets

[Kinetic]

Sudden interest in nano tech????


I always said cyber, nano, EW and bio is the future of tech. Rests are gone.

 

[axisofevil]

Who changes whose mind?

YOu are dreaming when you talk about your vision for utopia. Actiona speak louder than words. The point is CHina has been arming Pakistan to the teeth to counter us. Opening rail links and roads is only going to benefit China not India Unless, we approach their manufacturing level, I higly advise it. Otherwise, they will continue to dump their goods at below market prices and kill our industries.

 

[surya kiran]

YOu are dreaming when you talk about your vision for utopia. Actiona speak louder than words. The point is CHina has been arming Pakistan to the teeth to counter us. Opening rail links and roads is only going to benefit China not India Unless, we approach their manufacturing level, I higly advise it. Otherwise, they will continue to dump their goods at below market prices and kill our industries.

Which industries have the Chinese killed till now? And there is no utopia. It is meeting strategic objectives. The Chinese will bargain, just like they did with Sikkim. The Americans have armed Pakistan much more than the Chinese, they provide more aid than the Chinese and more training than the Chinese. Hell, the Russians are now going to supply weaponry and France supplied submarines. The Russians supply top of the line jets and missiles to the Chinese. So do we cut ties with them or do we deal with them? The Pak-China relationship will survive only till the time the Chinese want it to. The sooner the Pakistanis realise that, better for them. There is no point in talking about the past. If you think, they can change their mind what makes you think we will stick with agreements.

Today, our oil supply comes from the ME. We need to diversify our purchases and hedge risks. If this means, talking and negotiating with the Chinese so be it. And what makes you think that 'dumping' cannot be controlled by trade means? We have some of the most stringent trade restrictions and protections in the world.

You can call this utopia or whatever you like. But, this is the real world, the Chinese are one of our biggest trading partners. And its going to get only bigger. There are areas where we are better than them in manufacturing. Pharma being a key example. Another is where, the Chinese want to invest in Indian factories. Why not let it in? Provided they let us set up factories there.

Also, dealing with China is easier. They are more powerful than Pakistan, but, they do not suffer any syndromes like the chaps in the west. They do not have ideological leanings which favour death over life. So the point is you strengthen yourself and work with them. If the Chinese realise they will get a bloody nose, get a moral victory but no territory, they will make peace. We need to work with them. Economically and strategically. Our interests align with the Chinese more than you can think.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Phew.. We can still be no 2 if we start research programmes in IIT n NIT's. Last time i xhecked govt was busy in non veg n veg mess problems..

No 8-9 will be more appropriate, if you're talking about advanced Nanotechnology.

 

[axisofevil]

Which industries have the Chinese killed till now? And there is no utopia. It is meeting strategic objectives. The Chinese will bargain, just like they did with Sikkim. The Americans have armed Pakistan much more than the Chinese, they provide more aid than the Chinese and more training than the Chinese. Hell, the Russians are now going to supply weaponry and France supplied submarines. The Russians supply top of the line jets and missiles to the Chinese. So do we cut ties with them or do we deal with them? The Pak-China relationship will survive only till the time the Chinese want it to. The sooner the Pakistanis realise that, better for them. There is no point in talking about the past. If you think, they can change their mind what makes you think we will stick with agreements.

Today, our oil supply comes from the ME. We need to diversify our purchases and hedge risks. If this means, talking and negotiating with the Chinese so be it. And what makes you think that 'dumping' cannot be controlled by trade means? We have some of the most stringent trade restrictions and protections in the world.

You can call this utopia or whatever you like. But, this is the real world, the Chinese are one of our biggest trading partners. And its going to get only bigger. There are areas where we are better than them in manufacturing. Pharma being a key example. Another is where, the Chinese want to invest in Indian factories. Why not let it in? Provided they let us set up factories there.

Also, dealing with China is easier. They are more powerful than Pakistan, but, they do not suffer any syndromes like the chaps in the west. They do not have ideological leanings which favour death over life. So the point is you strengthen yourself and work with them. If the Chinese realise they will get a bloody nose, get a moral victory but no territory, they will make peace. We need to work with them. Economically and strategically. Our interests align with the Chinese more than you can think.

Dealing with China is easier? Says who? They are slowly killing our industries by dropping hte prices so low that can't even make a profit or break ever? Why? Its a tactical corporate move by them to kill our domestic industries, so afterwards they have no competition!


China suffers from many insecurities. You are fooling yourself once again. Our interests don't align with anyone but ourselves. Look at what happened today with China and the US? They signed a deal on climate change, even though they had agreed to fight with India. In terms of goodwill and publicity , they look better in the world opinion. Now we look like idiots for not thinking ahead.



America armed Pakistan more than China? Hey listen to yourself? You are so blinded by your love for China and hate for America, you cant even fathom the facts. Did America give Pakistan nukes, nuke tech, long range missiles, etc? Pakistan got weapons from the US that weren't a big game changer.



China bargaining on Sikkim reflects on how stupid our diplomacy was for giving them Tibet for what? Achieved BS.


As for the Pak-China relationship, who detemines when the time is over? China keeps propping them up to keep us in check.

Im all over trading, negotiating with anyone but let's not let our guard down for a sec. China has to be monitored 24-7



China has created many bottlenecks to stop Indian pharma from entering. You have not learned what the West has learned. To do business in China, you have to enter into a partnership with Chinese entity. The result is the Chinese entity learns your trade secrets, then creates another company and all the business contracts you had goes to the CHinese company. THe West is slowly realizing this, has begun to look for alternative markets.



You must understand the threat to our national security. China wanted to enter our Telecom manrufacturing segments. Congress almost let them in with heavy lobbying from Indian Inc. China has enough expertize to inject malicious software that we canot detect easily. They can also do it by remote.


Given that our relations are frosty and never resolved on purpose, it is clear. China wont resolve it. They will increase their defence and then play hard ball, forcing anyone to accept their position under the gun. This is a what China has done for centuries.

 

[micky]

Which industries have the Chinese killed till now? And there is no utopia. It is meeting strategic objectives. The Chinese will bargain, just like they did with Sikkim. The Americans have armed Pakistan much more than the Chinese, they provide more aid than the Chinese and more training than the Chinese. Hell, the Russians are now going to supply weaponry and France supplied submarines. The Russians supply top of the line jets and missiles to the Chinese. So do we cut ties with them or do we deal with them? The Pak-China relationship will survive only till the time the Chinese want it to. The sooner the Pakistanis realise that, better for them. There is no point in talking about the past. If you think, they can change their mind what makes you think we will stick with agreements.

Today, our oil supply comes from the ME. We need to diversify our purchases and hedge risks. If this means, talking and negotiating with the Chinese so be it. And what makes you think that 'dumping' cannot be controlled by trade means? We have some of the most stringent trade restrictions and protections in the world.

You can call this utopia or whatever you like. But, this is the real world, the Chinese are one of our biggest trading partners. And its going to get only bigger. There are areas where we are better than them in manufacturing. Pharma being a key example. Another is where, the Chinese want to invest in Indian factories. Why not let it in? Provided they let us set up factories there.

Also, dealing with China is easier. They are more powerful than Pakistan, but, they do not suffer any syndromes like the chaps in the west. They do not have ideological leanings which favour death over life. So the point is you strengthen yourself and work with them. If the Chinese realise they will get a bloody nose, get a moral victory but no territory, they will make peace. We need to work with them. Economically and strategically. Our interests align with the Chinese more than you can think.

Don't never ever underestimate communist,,,, may be the chinese peoples are so nice but not this CCP and CMC.....

 

[surya kiran]

@axisofevil
Dealing with China is easier? Says who? They are slowly killing our industries by dropping hte prices so low that can't even make a profit or break ever? Why? Its a tactical corporate move by them to kill our domestic industries, so afterwards they have no competition!

I asked you for facts. You are giving me points of view. I said, its possible to have trade barriers. I am assuming you are not aware of how trade barriers and tariff structures work. Their production being low is due to 2 reasons. Setup cost and electricity. Setup cost - They have setup factories long before. Its depreciated to zero cost by now. Thats your capex. Opex, one of the main ingredients of opex is electricity. They have beefed up the same and are therefore able to provide it at lower costs. How is it that they are 'targeting' anybody. We do the same for our agro sectors. The answer is increased power generation at our end and decreasing cost of capital for our industries. The answer is not protectionism. Hope this clears things on this topic?

China suffers from many insecurities. You are fooling yourself once again. Our interests don't align with anyone but ourselves. Look at what happened today with China and the US? They signed a deal on climate change, even though they had agreed to fight with India. In terms of goodwill and publicity , they look better in the world opinion. Now we look like idiots for not thinking ahead.

Again, nobody is saying forget national interests. We are a growing economy and our appetite for energy is only going to increase at an even more rapid rate. Now, assume that 100 MN more people rise above the poverty line and 100 MN more cars need to be sold. That many more houses need to be lit. Where is the energy going to come from? Only from the ME or from other suppliers also. Even the most optimistic % of nuclear energy is 9%. That too is open to problems. Drop in availability of uranium lead to more than a 10% drop in nuclear generation for a couple of years. Assume renewable is at 10%. Thats still a huge chunk on conventional sources. Where will all this come from? Only the middle east? I hope not, because if thats the case, then remember what happened during the Gulf war? Hence, it is important to find alternate sources through Russia if possible and deal with China where required.

America armed Pakistan more than China? Hey listen to yourself? You are so blinded by your love for China and hate for America, you cant even fathom the facts. Did America give Pakistan nukes, nuke tech, long range missiles, etc? Pakistan got weapons from the US that weren't a big game changer.

Why? Does it hurt when I say American armed China more? Please do check the figures and statistics. And let's not get personal. Your entire reply has been emotional instead of being driven by hard facts.

Americans have given them F-16s, trained their special forces, looked the other way when they knew the Paks had nuclear weapons because it suited their cause. Do you have any idea about the capabilities of the P3-C Orion? Are aware that the largest warship in the Pak navy is an American one? Are you aware of the amount of aid that American provides to Pakistan? Do you know the French gave Pakistan the submarine which was better than most of what we had?

Taking your logic with Pakistan, we could juxtapose it on China. If China is such a big threat why not stop dealing with Russia? Hell, most of the Chinese military is armed with Russian stuff and the Israelis were ready to supply them state of the art stuff. Why not stop dealing with the Israelis? Let's not get carried away with personal opinions.

And you think, China gave them nukes? Are you aware of the time-lines? They had nukes much before the Chinese got pally with them. Read about A Q Khan.

China bargaining on Sikkim reflects on how stupid our diplomacy was for giving them Tibet for what? Achieved BS.
And what would you have liked? Go to war over Tibet? For what? What do we gain by going to war over Tibet? We recognised on-ground status and proceeded to ensure we do not have trouble in that area. Based on reading your comment, I can understand you have only built up emotion no real answers to most things. But, use a cool head.

As for the Pak-China relationship, who detemines when the time is over? China keeps propping them up to keep us in check.
Then you prop up other countries. Where is it stated that we should not trade or increase military co-operation with Vietnam or Japan or anybody? We should and we will.That's what is happening currently.

Im all over trading, negotiating with anyone but let's not let our guard down for a sec. China has to be monitored 24-7

China has created many bottlenecks to stop Indian pharma from entering. You have not learned what the West has learned. To do business in China, you have to enter into a partnership with Chinese entity. The result is the Chinese entity learns your trade secrets, then creates another company and all the business contracts you had goes to the CHinese company. THe West is slowly realizing this, has begun to look for alternative markets.

Those are exactly trade barriers. The same can be applied to Chinese companies entering India. And this exactly what I meant earlier

You must understand the threat to our national security. China wanted to enter our Telecom manrufacturing segments. Congress almost let them in with heavy lobbying from Indian Inc. China has enough expertize to inject malicious software that we canot detect easily. They can also do it by remote.

They will do whatever is necessary to enter our markets and forward their strategic goals. If you think the Americans and Russians are not doing it, you are sadly mistaken. It is our prerogative to guard our boundaries.

Given that our relations are frosty and never resolved on purpose, it is clear. China wont resolve it. They will increase their defence and then play hard ball, forcing anyone to accept their position under the gun. This is a what China has done for centuries.
So who is talking about giving up what we want? Read what I said. I said, we need to deal with China from a position of strength. Does that mean not trading with them or trying to resolve issues? Why did the Chinese resolve issues with Russia?Because of strength. If you think Russo-Sino relations are only goody goody you are sadly mistaken.

The bottom line is we have to deal with them. We have to trade with them and we have to ensure we protect our security. What is so difficult to understand?

 

[Hareeshu IA MBT]

Russia is Indias all weather friend. India-Russia Bhai Bhai.

Cheers to our brothers in Russia. This is real boost. Much needed for India to develop our own technologies. For the past 10 years mismanagement with Russia by usless Congress lost the trust between two nations and people to people relationship. Just look at the basic offer. From Airliner (Comercial) to nanotechnology . And they have proposed to make light choppers in India . Important point is that it's not only for Indian customers but to export also. Am not sure how it will affect our luh.

Point to note : When India is on the verge to complete LCA sweds offered Gripn to Co develop and Co produce . When we are close to.get our first LUH by 2015 Russians offers their most capable Ka helis ... hmm something fishy . But who cares we don't have either of them right now .

 

[SpArK]

More power reactors.
Discount rated oil and oil exploration rights.
FGFA finalisation and addressing the concerns.
Brahmos developments and its future variants.
Mutual understanding and trust ( like not selling weapons to adversaries).

And yes making stuff in India jointly.

 

[SpArK]

Lolwa, it's not as sugary and honey as it seems, India lags by a margin of 2 decades from the west.

Thats why we send people to US to study nanotechnology.

But they seem to spend life posting pics of campuses in FB and play cricket.

 

[axisofevil]

@axisofevil
Dealing with China is easier? Says who? They are slowly killing our industries by dropping hte prices so low that can't even make a profit or break ever? Why? Its a tactical corporate move by them to kill our domestic industries, so afterwards they have no competition!

I asked you for facts. You are giving me points of view. I said, its possible to have trade barriers. I am assuming you are not aware of how trade barriers and tariff structures work. Their production being low is due to 2 reasons. Setup cost and electricity. Setup cost - They have setup factories long before. Its depreciated to zero cost by now. Thats your capex. Opex, one of the main ingredients of opex is electricity. They have beefed up the same and are therefore able to provide it at lower costs. How is it that they are 'targeting' anybody. We do the same for our agro sectors. The answer is increased power generation at our end and decreasing cost of capital for our industries. The answer is not protectionism. Hope this clears things on this topic?

China suffers from many insecurities. You are fooling yourself once again. Our interests don't align with anyone but ourselves. Look at what happened today with China and the US? They signed a deal on climate change, even though they had agreed to fight with India. In terms of goodwill and publicity , they look better in the world opinion. Now we look like idiots for not thinking ahead.

Again, nobody is saying forget national interests. We are a growing economy and our appetite for energy is only going to increase at an even more rapid rate. Now, assume that 100 MN more people rise above the poverty line and 100 MN more cars need to be sold. That many more houses need to be lit. Where is the energy going to come from? Only from the ME or from other suppliers also. Even the most optimistic % of nuclear energy is 9%. That too is open to problems. Drop in availability of uranium lead to more than a 10% drop in nuclear generation for a couple of years. Assume renewable is at 10%. Thats still a huge chunk on conventional sources. Where will all this come from? Only the middle east? I hope not, because if thats the case, then remember what happened during the Gulf war? Hence, it is important to find alternate sources through Russia if possible and deal with China where required.

America armed Pakistan more than China? Hey listen to yourself? You are so blinded by your love for China and hate for America, you cant even fathom the facts. Did America give Pakistan nukes, nuke tech, long range missiles, etc? Pakistan got weapons from the US that weren't a big game changer.

Why? Does it hurt when I say American armed China more? Please do check the figures and statistics. And let's not get personal. Your entire reply has been emotional instead of being driven by hard facts.

Americans have given them F-16s, trained their special forces, looked the other way when they knew the Paks had nuclear weapons because it suited their cause. Do you have any idea about the capabilities of the P3-C Orion? Are aware that the largest warship in the Pak navy is an American one? Are you aware of the amount of aid that American provides to Pakistan? Do you know the French gave Pakistan the submarine which was better than most of what we had?

Taking your logic with Pakistan, we could juxtapose it on China. If China is such a big threat why not stop dealing with Russia? Hell, most of the Chinese military is armed with Russian stuff and the Israelis were ready to supply them state of the art stuff. Why not stop dealing with the Israelis? Let's not get carried away with personal opinions.

And you think, China gave them nukes? Are you aware of the time-lines? They had nukes much before the Chinese got pally with them. Read about A Q Khan.

China bargaining on Sikkim reflects on how stupid our diplomacy was for giving them Tibet for what? Achieved BS.
And what would you have liked? Go to war over Tibet? For what? What do we gain by going to war over Tibet? We recognised on-ground status and proceeded to ensure we do not have trouble in that area. Based on reading your comment, I can understand you have only built up emotion no real answers to most things. But, use a cool head.

As for the Pak-China relationship, who detemines when the time is over? China keeps propping them up to keep us in check.
Then you prop up other countries. Where is it stated that we should not trade or increase military co-operation with Vietnam or Japan or anybody? We should and we will.That's what is happening currently.

Im all over trading, negotiating with anyone but let's not let our guard down for a sec. China has to be monitored 24-7

China has created many bottlenecks to stop Indian pharma from entering. You have not learned what the West has learned. To do business in China, you have to enter into a partnership with Chinese entity. The result is the Chinese entity learns your trade secrets, then creates another company and all the business contracts you had goes to the CHinese company. THe West is slowly realizing this, has begun to look for alternative markets.

Those are exactly trade barriers. The same can be applied to Chinese companies entering India. And this exactly what I meant earlier

You must understand the threat to our national security. China wanted to enter our Telecom manrufacturing segments. Congress almost let them in with heavy lobbying from Indian Inc. China has enough expertize to inject malicious software that we canot detect easily. They can also do it by remote.

They will do whatever is necessary to enter our markets and forward their strategic goals. If you think the Americans and Russians are not doing it, you are sadly mistaken. It is our prerogative to guard our boundaries.

Given that our relations are frosty and never resolved on purpose, it is clear. China wont resolve it. They will increase their defence and then play hard ball, forcing anyone to accept their position under the gun. This is a what China has done for centuries.
So who is talking about giving up what we want? Read what I said. I said, we need to deal with China from a position of strength. Does that mean not trading with them or trying to resolve issues? Why did the Chinese resolve issues with Russia?Because of strength. If you think Russo-Sino relations are only goody goody you are sadly mistaken.

The bottom line is we have to deal with them. We have to trade with them and we have to ensure we protect our security. What is so difficult to understand?

Tibet equals water and security. They would have been easier to deal with diplomactically. Allowing China to take over tibet was strategic blunder on our part. We talk about peace and all this other BS, but unless you are willing to fight and defend for peace, its nothing more than cheap talk. Peace only comes from a position of strength.


Energy matters but we are investing peanuts in our research. The point is we placed so much emphasis on working with China on energy concerns. Look what happened? Did China brief us before it agreed with the US? NOOOo. We slept thinking about our camaderie, while the dragon planned it out. Not sleeping for second. That's the problem, we sleep after achieving some BS. We don't follow up and continue to see other issues in the future. There are many ppl who are so hungry for energy that are willing to pollute out environment so badly, it may never require. We are going to hope and pray for solutions. Is that the type of country you want? Where is the planning?

As for weapons, nothing matters. China gave Pakistan nukes, nuclear tech and missiles. Everything else you mentioned about the US and France is arms sale 101. On top of that, the US was doing its best
to keep Pakistan under its sphere of influence for as long as possible. Whenever folks bring up, arms race.....where is the Indian media and publicity to bring up how France and such countries arm Pakistan to the teeth, thereby creating the conditions for an arms race? None, because out gov't has completely neglected the power of media.



As for Vietnam and Japanese relations , we lost valuable time due to indecision. India under Congress could not get its act together. No strategic plans, because we were still waiting for China to come around. Why do you think we finally went ahead?


Of course, we have to deal with China from a strength of position. Opening our borders and sensitive industries to their companies is no in our best interest yet. We seriously lack the capabilities to monitor potential problems. We need to take more steps to strengthen our position.


Russia, China, US , France, the whole world will look after its interests first. But not a single nation besides China has armed our enemy and a headache for the world with a nuclear weapon and the missileto deliver it

AQ Khan is a just fluff to divert attention. You are reading into him and his work too much. The biggest issue with AQ was that he was willing to sell and give this tech away.



Our think tanks have been sleeping. We should have mnay scenarios played out and planned. If an opportunity ever presents itself, we should be ready to pounce on it at seconds notice. Bangladesh relations and borders could been negotiated in our terms and favor. Sri Lanka's war with LTTE? What were we thinking? I could tell you after 9/11 nations suffering from terror would take it as a cue to attack such groups in their territory, even if the conditions are not the same. We didn't have a clue.....and Pakistan/China pounced at the opportunity while we are stuck playing catch up.



As for trade, I guess you don't read much. Our own industry has complained that China was selling products at a loss. Given the cheaper costs for them and the tariffs, they calculated their prices were not breaking even. The point was to break our own domestic industries. All is fair I suppose in business....but that's where India needs to be a big brother to Indian companies.

India was warned about the Telecom and power secuirty issues. Im sure you and other will insist its a Western design to keep us apart. Don't be foolish. There are certain core areas that must never be subjected to foreign powers especially those that are inimical to our interests. There was heavy lobbying for Chinese power equipment, Congress was quick to green light it almost. We don't have the capabilty to even secure such products. We are woefully behind in cyber security. We had to use a third party to expose what we couldn't see.


I'll leave you on this note. Before becoming PM, Modi was quick to push China relations. After becoming PM, while he still insists on good relations with China, he has been exposed to alot of intel. Now he can clearly see what many of us don't have access to. The moves being made show Modi's position. The writing is on the wall whether you want to believe it or not. China is to organized and does not suffer from democractic inefficiency. Engage China but don't ever let your guard down for a second. That's been the problem for 55 yrs under Congress......we have been sleeping in corruption.


The bottomline is we trading with them and increasing our security. Before we starting yapping about roads, lets get the national ID system like ADHar up and running, work out the bugs, secure the borders better, then let's look at the pro's, con's and feasibility of road and rails to China.

 

[surya kiran]

Tibet equals water and security. They would have been easier to deal with diplomactically. Allowing China to take over tibet was strategic blunder on our part. We talk about peace and all this other BS, but unless you are willing to fight and defend for peace, its nothing more than cheap talk. Peace only comes from a position of strength.


Energy matters but we are investing peanuts in our research. The point is we placed so much emphasis on working with China on energy concerns. Look what happened? Did China brief us before it agreed with the US? NOOOo. We slept thinking about our camaderie, while the dragon planned it out. Not sleeping for second. That's the problem, we sleep after achieving some BS. We don't follow up and continue to see other issues in the future. There are many ppl who are so hungry for energy that are willing to pollute out environment so badly, it may never require. We are going to hope and pray for solutions. Is that the type of country you want? Where is the planning?

As for weapons, nothing matters. China gave Pakistan nukes, nuclear tech and missiles. Everything else you mentioned about the US and France is arms sale 101. On top of that, the US was doing its best
to keep Pakistan under its sphere of influence for as long as possible. Whenever folks bring up, arms race.....where is the Indian media and publicity to bring up how France and such countries arm Pakistan to the teeth, thereby creating the conditions for an arms race? None, because out gov't has completely neglected the power of media.



As for Vietnam and Japanese relations , we lost valuable time due to indecision. India under Congress could not get its act together. No strategic plans, because we were still waiting for China to come around. Why do you think we finally went ahead?


Of course, we have to deal with China from a strength of position. Opening our borders and sensitive industries to their companies is no in our best interest yet. We seriously lack the capabilities to monitor potential problems. We need to take more steps to strengthen our position.


Russia, China, US , France, the whole world will look after its interests first. But not a single nation besides China has armed our enemy and a headache for the world with a nuclear weapon and the missileto deliver it

AQ Khan is a just fluff to divert attention. You are reading into him and his work too much. The biggest issue with AQ was that he was willing to sell and give this tech away.



Our think tanks have been sleeping. We should have mnay scenarios played out and planned. If an opportunity ever presents itself, we should be ready to pounce on it at seconds notice. Bangladesh relations and borders could been negotiated in our terms and favor. Sri Lanka's war with LTTE? What were we thinking? I could tell you after 9/11 nations suffering from terror would take it as a cue to attack such groups in their territory, even if the conditions are not the same. We didn't have a clue.....and Pakistan/China pounced at the opportunity while we are stuck playing catch up.



As for trade, I guess you don't read much. Our own industry has complained that China was selling products at a loss. Given the cheaper costs for them and the tariffs, they calculated their prices were not breaking even. The point was to break our own domestic industries. All is fair I suppose in business....but that's where India needs to be a big brother to Indian companies.

India was warned about the Telecom and power secuirty issues. Im sure you and other will insist its a Western design to keep us apart. Don't be foolish. There are certain core areas that must never be subjected to foreign powers especially those that are inimical to our interests. There was heavy lobbying for Chinese power equipment, Congress was quick to green light it almost. We don't have the capabilty to even secure such products. We are woefully behind in cyber security. We had to use a third party to expose what we couldn't see.


I'll leave you on this note. Before becoming PM, Modi was quick to push China relations. After becoming PM, while he still insists on good relations with China, he has been exposed to alot of intel. Now he can clearly see what many of us don't have access to. The moves being made show Modi's position. The writing is on the wall whether you want to believe it or not. China is to organized and does not suffer from democractic inefficiency. Engage China but don't ever let your guard down for a second. That's been the problem for 55 yrs under Congress......we have been sleeping in corruption.


The bottomline is we trading with them and increasing our security. Before we starting yapping about roads, lets get the national ID system like ADHar up and running, work out the bugs, secure the borders better, then let's look at the pro's, con's and feasibility of road and rails to China.

The entire premise of yours is you know more and the rest know zilch. Sorry to disappoint you.

If you suggest dealing with China in a certain manner because they support Pakistan, the same applies to Russia since it deals with China and same with France dealing with China and Pakistan and Israel dealing with China. You call this arms 101 I call it playing both sides.How were you planning on dealing with CHina on Tibet?

For trade, fyi, I have a double masters in this topic one of them being Economics with International trade. So spare me the bull crap about my 'knowledge' and 'reading' on this. And I deal with markets on a daily basis, minute to minute basis. And you are getting personal.

At an overall level you seem to be suggesting trade with security in mind. I am saying the same thing. But when I am asking for specifics and you are passing motherhood statements. For each point, I have demonstrated how they can be dealt with. Have a good day.

 

[SrNair]

-Does any Indian airline operate the MS-21? None. Have they expressed any interest in acquiring it? I doubt it.

-The IA and IAF favoured the Fennec over the Ka-226 from the outset, they had little interest in that strange helo.

The Russians need to focus on delivering the products India has signed for (FGFA, MTA etc) on time and on budget instead of trying to see more cr@p to India that will cost an arm and a leg to maintain over the course of its life.

We dont need to induct those choppers.But we can build it in here to export to other nations.

 

[SrNair]

Dealing with China is easier? Says who? They are slowly killing our industries by dropping hte prices so low that can't even make a profit or break ever? Why? Its a tactical corporate move by them to kill our domestic industries, so afterwards they have no competition!


China suffers from many insecurities. You are fooling yourself once again. Our interests don't align with anyone but ourselves. Look at what happened today with China and the US? They signed a deal on climate change, even though they had agreed to fight with India. In terms of goodwill and publicity , they look better in the world opinion. Now we look like idiots for not thinking ahead.



America armed Pakistan more than China? Hey listen to yourself? You are so blinded by your love for China and hate for America, you cant even fathom the facts. Did America give Pakistan nukes, nuke tech, long range missiles, etc? Pakistan got weapons from the US that weren't a big game changer.



China bargaining on Sikkim reflects on how stupid our diplomacy was for giving them Tibet for what? Achieved BS.


As for the Pak-China relationship, who detemines when the time is over? China keeps propping them up to keep us in check.

Im all over trading, negotiating with anyone but let's not let our guard down for a sec. China has to be monitored 24-7



China has created many bottlenecks to stop Indian pharma from entering. You have not learned what the West has learned. To do business in China, you have to enter into a partnership with Chinese entity. The result is the Chinese entity learns your trade secrets, then creates another company and all the business contracts you had goes to the CHinese company. THe West is slowly realizing this, has begun to look for alternative markets.



You must understand the threat to our national security. China wanted to enter our Telecom manrufacturing segments. Congress almost let them in with heavy lobbying from Indian Inc. China has enough expertize to inject malicious software that we canot detect easily. They can also do it by remote.


Given that our relations are frosty and never resolved on purpose, it is clear. China wont resolve it. They will increase their defence and then play hard ball, forcing anyone to accept their position under the gun. This is a what China has done for centuries.

US is not a saint and noone is better including Russia.Fact is still US is giving a lot of aids to our western neighbour and noone can ignore their actions in our nation including delaying our Cryogenic engine
So you dont need to justify the actions of US.But there is no permenant friends in geopolitics only permanent interests

 

[axisofevil]

The entire premise of yours is you know more and the rest know zilch. Sorry to disappoint you.

If you suggest dealing with China in a certain manner because they support Pakistan, the same applies to Russia since it deals with China and same with France dealing with China and Pakistan and Israel dealing with China. You call this arms 101 I call it playing both sides.How were you planning on dealing with CHina on Tibet?

For trade, fyi, I have a double masters in this topic one of them being Economics with International trade. So spare me the bull crap about your 'knowledge' on this. And I deal with markets on a daily basis, minute to minute basis. And you are getting personal.

At an overall level you seem to be suggesting trade with security in mind. I am saying the same thing. But when I am asking for specifics and you are passing motherhood statements. For each point, I have demonstrated how they can be dealt with. Have a good day.

READ MY POST AGAIN. I didn't say anything about what you are referring to in terms of market. I only pointed our own industry noted that prices that China is pushing is not feasible for them to even break even. The move is simply to get rid of our own business.


Why should we allow China to get rich off us while they promote insecurity in our region? We do agree on the same points, my issue was about the rail and road links. Unless we strengthen our country, I would highly advise it.


Arms dealing 101 as I referred to it, is playing both sides. I pointed it out numerous times, about France playing both sides. You can even look it up on this site going back yrs. Forget about Tibet, the time for making any moves on that is long gone. The only thing we can now is change our stand if we are pushed but thats requires a calculated thought out process.

Regardless of degrees, I am right on my points. Your reply did not counter anything. You did not provide or demonstrate how they can be dealt with (Maybe I missed it). That's the problem with Indians, everybody wants to be a f-ing chief. It seems you are upset, for what? I provided details but suddenly its not good enough. Why? I countered your points, stating China gave nukes. France and US money and weapons is nothing incomparions. Hell, the US also helped strengthen Pakistan control and command structure of Nukes so an accidental blast does not occur.


I pointed out the security issues with China's export for telecom and electrical equipment, yet you keep on yapping about trade and economics? So, you think it's okay to buy such products regardless of the security implication because it economically cheaper?


Have a nice day. The point is anything is possible given the right circumstances but China has not shown anything. So, that wishful thinking of roads and rails can remain a distant dream unless there was a change of goverance in Bejing.