Russia, China to set up new SWIFT system

[mike2000]

you talk as if NATO is one country, it is not, European nations share security interest with the US, not economic interest, the US no longer has control on it's allies like it did 30 years ago. the EU will have European nations could look out for their own interest. in the end, business is business, after 1989, Eurocopter couldn't be more happy that Sikorsky pull out.

Economic interests are also related/linked to security interests. despite our differences among ourselves (we do have many believe me), we still know that we have to stick with each other when faced against a foreign power /country. It's by doing this that we can keep a strong /united image to the world and make our adversaries take note. This is something the BRICS, SCO, 'emerging countries ' etc don't have (and might never do. ).

Despite what you think, the U S still has considerable control over NATO, it's by far the main financier and equipment supplier of NATO. moreover,U.S officer are still the leleader and many countries in NATO are prepared to follow the U. S in its foreign military conflicts. So I'm afraid to say, the U. S is still very much in control of NATO.

However, Hopefully in Future we Europeans will adopt a more proactive role in our defence.

who is "us"? who do you speak for exactly? and you see this swift alternative as a challenge?
this is good business, Iran, Cuba, NK, all of them cant use swift should be able to use this.

I speak for the 'hegemonic west' in general.
For we still united /back each other when faced with external forces. After all have you ever heard a western country being sanctioned by another western country. ? NO.

If you haven't noticed all the SWIFT talk between China and Russia is still just talks nothing has been decided nor any decisions made. It will take a long time for any decision to be fanalize(if it ever does at all) and even moreeee time to implement it. So got a longgggg to go.

 

[sicsheep]

Economic interests are also related/linked to security interests. despite our differences among ourselves (we do have many believe me), we still know that we have to stick with each other when faced against a foreign power /country. It's by doing this that we can keep a strong /united image to the world and make our adversaries take note. This is something the BRICS, SCO, 'emerging countries ' etc don't have (and might never do. ).

Despite what you think, the U S still has considerable control over NATO, it's by far the main financier and equipment supplier of NATO. moreover,U.S officer are still the leleader and mark countries in NATO are prepared to follow the U. S in its foreign military conflicts. So I'm afraid to say, the U. S is still very much in control if the mighty U. S.

Hopefully in Future we Europeans will adopt a more proactive role in our defence.



I speak for the 'hegemonic west' in general.
For we still united /back each other when faced with external forces. After all have you ever heard a western country sanctioned another western country. ? NO.

If you haven't noticed its still just talks nothing has been decided nor any decisions made. It will take a long time for any decision to be fanalize(if it ever does at all) and even moreeee time to implement it. So got a longgggg to go.

Ok, you see US did not make a mistake not letting Russia joint NATO, if Russia join, US can no longer play "the reds are coming card", US thrives in the cold war, that is exactly why NATO is the perfect tool for US to control Europe, and every alliance needs an enemy, and I think the European leaders knows this. UK has always put self interest aside when it comes to helping USA, but i am not so sure about France and Germany. which accounts for one third of EU GPD.

 

[andy_hujian]

coming

Japan is our enemy, but it doesn't stop them to keep trading with us.

This is the magic of the globalization.

Economic interests are also related/linked to security interests. despite our differences among ourselves (we do have many believe me), we still know that we have to stick with each other when faced against a foreign power /country. It's by doing this that we can keep a strong /united image to the world and make our adversaries take note. This is something the BRICS, SCO, 'emerging countries ' etc don't have (and might never do. ).

Despite what you think, the U S still has considerable control over NATO, it's by far the main financier and equipment supplier of NATO. moreover,U.S officer are still the leleader and mark countries in NATO are prepared to follow the U. S in its foreign military conflicts. So I'm afraid to say, the U. S is still very much in control if the mighty U. S.

Hopefully in Future we Europeans will adopt a more proactive role in our defence.



I speak for the 'hegemonic west' in general.
For we still united /back each other when faced with external forces. After all have you ever heard a western country sanctioned another western country. ? NO.

If you haven't noticed its still just talks nothing has been decided nor any decisions made. It will take a long time for any decision to be fanalize(if it ever does at all) and even moreeee time to implement it. So got a longgggg to go.

Allies also have cracks between them. Russia and China know how to play around the cracks.

For example, supporting the independence of Scotland, which may or may not happen tomorrow. Another example, selling Turkey weapons for low price. Turkey is 2nd citizen in NATO, by the way. They want the same place as other major NATO countries. One more example, get closer with Germany, who considers itself the best. Though Germany is considered western countries, they hate the U.S. coz its rise was suppressed by the U.S. twice. One more again, support the extreme right wing party of EU. A united EU is against the interests of Russia and China. I just can't stop. It's too much....

 

[Beidou2020]

The power of the 'West' is essentially due to the monopoly power of the US in certain areas. You break that monopoly positions of the US, you break the hold of the 'West'.

China and Russia are the perfect combination to break the US monopolies.

As China grows in power, with a population bigger than the entire 'Western' world combined, China will definitely replace the US as the global consumer (China is already 2nd largest consumer). China is already the largest global manufacturer and trader.

As Chinese overseas investment (direct and portfolio) rises, that too will remove another monopoly of the US where they restrict US investors from investing in countries they don't like.

China already has deep and liquid capital markets and as the capital controls and Renminbi controls loosen, China will offer an alternative to Western currency and capital markets. This will make China an alternative source of government and corporate financing for foreigners.

China has to break the economic monopoly first:
1) manufacturing
2) consumer market
3) trade
4) overseas direct investment

Then the financial monopoly second:
5) portfolio investment (hedge funds, mutual funds, asset management companies, banks, insurance companies)
6) ability to finance through banks and capital markets (bond market, stock market, etc)
7) ability to use Renminbi (develop payment clearing system CIPS, direct trading of currencies, alternative to SWIFT, currency swaps)

Then the technology monopoly in critical areas like machinery/tools/equipment, microprocessor, software, commercial aircraft, oil & gas exploration technology, mining technology, agriculture technology, space technology (satellites), etc

Then finally in military technology.

China must partner with Russia and the other BRICS countries. All of these are under way, this is why I say US power is on the wane and they know it so they are going rogue. When the US and its puppets no longer have a monopoly in economic, financial, technological and military power, the influence of the 'West' will be significantly reduced.

It is the monopoly positions of the 'West' that gives them the power. Russia was such a problem for the 'West' because Russia broken many of the monopolies of the 'West' and provided an alternative to others. Russia did this in natural resources, military technology, space technology. But Russia couldn't do that in civilian technology, economic power and financial power. China will be able to do that in those areas which Russia couldn't.

'Western' power is on the wane and the more it threatens Russia and China, the quicker 'Western' monopolies are broken as Russia, China and others have an incentive to develop alternatives.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

Competition is always good for business, particularly for customers. When the War was still going on, life in Western Europe was way better for the general public because the EU governments were in competitions with the East Bloc.

We were too naive to think that the end of the Cold War would mean lasting peace and social justice for all in Europe, instead the ruling class had no more restrain to reinstate a new feudal run by banksters and MNCs.

 

[vK_man]

Economic interests are also related/linked to security interests. despite our differences among ourselves (we do have many believe me), we still know that we have to stick with each other when faced against a foreign power /country. It's by doing this that we can keep a strong /united image to the world and make our adversaries take note. This is something the BRICS, SCO, 'emerging countries ' etc don't have (and might never do. ).

Despite what you think, the U S still has considerable control over NATO, it's by far the main financier and equipment supplier of NATO. moreover,U.S officer are still the leleader and many countries in NATO are prepared to follow the U. S in its foreign military conflicts. So I'm afraid to say, the U. S is still very much in control of NATO.

However, Hopefully in Future we Europeans will adopt a more proactive role in our defence.



I speak for the 'hegemonic west' in general.
For we still united /back each other when faced with external forces. After all have you ever heard a western country being sanctioned by another western country. ? NO.

If you haven't noticed all the SWIFT talk between China and Russia is still just talks nothing has been decided nor any decisions made. It will take a long time for any decision to be fanalize(if it ever does at all) and even moreeee time to implement it. So got a longgggg to go.

Currency swapping is already underway.
Russia Central Bank Responds To Domestic Dollar Shortage, Starts Currency Swaps | Zero Hedge

 

[DragonEmpire]

Welcome to the non-Jewish banking payment clearing system.

 

[alaungphaya]

Welcome to the non-Jewish banking payment clearing system.

I doubt Wall Street will back these sanctions for any great amount of time and Putin and the Russians probably know this. You can't fight globalisation with old fashioned mercantilism.

 

[DejanSRB]

America is pushing Russia towards us, which is is something that bodes very well for our national interests. Russia is surely the most powerful ally we could hope to have

China is most powerful ally for Russia too.It is great too that US dont have enough sense to attract China to them.
Without Chinese help,Russia will lose ability to counterbalance US power in the world.
So this is win win situation for both sides.And only that two countries have ability to make a tripolar world along USA which will be based on internationnaly law.

I doubt that world will be unipolar or even bipolar in the future,the period with great superpowers like USA or GB or USSR are done.
The world will be multipolar and i hope that Russia and Chine will be two centers in new multipolar order.

 

[possumlot]

Both Russia and China do not carry international credibility to make this into a global phenomena. Sadly this will remain active only between them.

 

[Beidou2020]

Both Russia and China do not carry international credibility to make this into a global phenomena. Sadly this will remain active only between them.

Everything starts out small and becomes big overtime. Any time China is involved it will become big eventually. China knows how to make things like this work.

 

[possumlot]

Everything starts out small and becomes big overtime. Any time China is involved it will become big eventually. China knows how to make things like this work.

Credibility is not built overnight. Neither China nor Russia has a infallible judicial system nor international reputation as nations who keep their world.

It certainly will not work for the next 20-30 years AT LEAST. Beyond that the whole world order might change anyway.

 

[Beidou2020]

Credibility is not built overnight. Neither China nor Russia has a infallible judicial system nor international reputation as nations who keep their world.

It certainly will not work for the next 20-30 years AT LEAST. Beyond that the whole world order might change anyway.

SWIFT has absolutely nothing to do about all the crap you mentioned. It's a telecommunication messaging system for banks to transfer money.

Indians might be world famous for licking the Western backside, but just because you like doing it, don't expect others to follow you.

China and Russia are not failures like India so please don't compare your country to Russia and China

 

[DejanSRB]

Both Russia and China do not carry international credibility to make this into a global phenomena. Sadly this will remain active only between them.

International credibility is something that need to build for decades.But I talk about decades.I didnt think like "Next year China and Russia will.....".

Great powers prepared their plans for next 50 years.

 

[Beidou2020]

LOL. My first job right out of college was with SWIFT ...... I bet I know a LOT more about it than you.

Chinese are famous for eating stuff soaked in urine, but just because you do it do not expect others to do it either.

Both China and Russia scrape the bottom as far as International credibility goes and No bank in the right might would want these countries to have control of their financial transactions. You have to be a total idiot to believe otherwise.

You working at SWIFT?

Banks come when alternatives open, only an idiot like you would believe banks don't want to cooperate with China. China is driving engine for the global economy and everyone wants to cooperate with China to deal with renminbi. Banks are begging the Chinese government access to Chinese market and China can demand anything it wants in return. Banks, companies and even government all comply when you are powerful.

China has the 3rd largest FDI. Pretty much sums up who has credibility. If China doest then pretty much no one does.
Indians laughing at China and Russia about international credibility is like Africans laughing at others about being poor

It is your failed country that scrapes the bottom of international credibility which is why no one wants to invest in your failed country full of corruption, bureaucracy and ultra jingoism. The only thing India has international credibility for is gang raping and defecating all over the streets like cavemen.