Russia, China to set up new SWIFT system

[senheiser]

WBP Online - Russia, China to set up new SWIFT system
Published: Sep 15, 2014 - 11:41 AM GMT

Russia's First Deputy Prime Minister Igor Shuvalov has announced that Russia and China are working to create an alternative to the long-standing SWIFT system for international financial transactions.

by Lubica Schulczova
WBP Online

Moscow - Following UK Prime Minister David Cameron's suggestion that preventing Russia from using SWIFT (Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication) could be used as part of sanctions, Russia's First Deputy Prime Minister Igor Shuvalov (pictured) announced last week that Russia and China had started to work on an alternative replacement to the long-standing current system.

International payment systems Visa and MasterCard have denied services to some Russian banks owned by individuals blacklisted by the US and EU.

"Yes, we have discussed and we have approved this idea," Shuvalov said after his meetings in Beijing.

According to the deputy PM, Russia has also been considering the establishment of an independent ratings agency with China. Concrete proposals will be made by the end of 2014, he said.

China already uses a separate payment system called UnionPay and cooperation with the yet-to-be-established Russian national payment system may also be in the works. Russia says it is ready for a full-scale collaboration and will provide all infrastructural capacities for the project.

The La Hulpe, Belgium-based SWIFT system was created in 1973 in Brussels. It originally established the central focal point for all oil sales to be done using the US dollar. In 2012, the US cut-off Iran's access to SWIFT to prevent it from selling oil globally.

Germany's Der Spiegel reported in September 2013 that the US National Security Agency widely monitors banking transactions via SWIFT, as well as credit card transactions.


To contact the author of this story, email lubica.schulczova@wbponline.com

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

This has been in the works for a long time.

America is pushing Russia towards us, which is is something that bodes very well for our national interests. Russia is surely the most powerful ally we could hope to have.

 

[mike2000]

ahahhahaahhaa......i can't stop laughing at these incoming news everyday between Russia and China. Why do they keep waiting for sanctions to react? You have to be proactive if you want to be a real world power, not reactive. Anyway it will take a longggg time to even create a system similar to SWIFT. You people should have started it earlier. Wait i know why you didnt: You don't trust each other one bit and will rather cooperate/trade with us than between yourselves. Its only when we start imposing sanctions/restrictions on you people that you are left with no choice than to cooperate with each other as a last resort. So its not a real desire to cooperate per say..
Im sure when things calm down when sanctions are lifted, everything will come back to normal, and all these will be forgotten.

 

[andy_hujian]

ahahhahaahhaa......i can't stop laughing at these incoming news everyday between Russia and China. Why do they keep waiting for sanctions to react? You have to be proactive if you want to be a real world power, not reactive. Anyway it will take a longggg time to even create a system similar to SWIFT. You people should have started it earlier. Wait i know why you didnt: You don't trust each other one bit and will rather cooperate/trade with us than between yourselves. Its only when we start imposing sanctions/restrictions on you people that you are left with no choice than to cooperate with each other as a last resort. So its not a real desire to cooperate per say..
Im sure when things calm down and the sanctions are lfted, everything will come back to normal, and all these will be forgotten.

Sanctions are not easy to be removed, as long as NATO expansion to the east continue, the confrontation will last.

 

[Schutz]

In terms of making money, China is far more interested in the west than Russia.

 

[andy_hujian]

Plus, if Ukraine does not follow the Finland way, the conflict there will continue.

In terms of making money, China is far more interested in the west than Russia.

Agreed. Further, Russia's nationalism is too strong. Chinese business there are sometimes affected by some Russians.
You can find news from time to time.

However, give or take, China and Russia will benefit each other to some extent.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

ahahhahaahhaa......i can't stop laughing at these incoming news everyday between Russia and China. Why do they keep waiting for sanctions to react? You have to be proactive if you want to be a real world power, not reactive. Anyway it will take a longggg time to even create a system similar to SWIFT. You people should have started it earlier. Wait i know why you didnt: You don't trust each other one bit and will rather cooperate/trade with us than between yourselves. Its only when we start imposing sanctions/restrictions on you people that you are left with no choice than to cooperate with each other as a last resort. So its not a real desire to cooperate per say..
Im sure when things calm down and the sanctions are lfted, everything will come back to normal, and all these will be forgotten.

I agree with most of your post, we have to be more proactive in order to protect ourselves from America's constant stream of sanctions. At the rate they are going, anyone could be next (apart from those already in the American camp of course).

In fact they still have an arms embargo on China since the Tiananmen incident.

Im sure when things calm down and the sanctions are lfted, everything will come back to normal, and all these will be forgotten.

I disagree with this part though.

The Russians won't forget these Western sanctions, not in a hundred years. Not even if the West recognizes Crimea as a part of Russia, which they will probably eventually do anyway.

Which means Russia will always come to China and the BRICS first. This serves our interests very well, since Russia is much more open to cooperation with us, compared to America which for example still maintains a NASA Chinese exclusion policy.

Chinese exclusion policy of NASA - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(Not that it stopped us from making space based weapons anyway, in fact we created the world's very first ASBM platform, and we have tested ASAT and HGV capability already).

Ironically, America is very happy to use Russian rockets to send their astronauts into space. Though no doubt that will change.

 

[senheiser]

In terms of making money, China is far more interested in the west than Russia.

But when it comes to security the west is the biggest treat to china, of course europe and usa have bigger economy but russian economy for its size gives many benefits for china like trade trough russia to europe and oil and gas security instead of gulf which is covered by US carriers

ahahhahaahhaa......i can't stop laughing at these incoming news everyday between Russia and China. Why do they keep waiting for sanctions to react? You have to be proactive if you want to be a real world power, not reactive. Anyway it will take a longggg time to even create a system similar to SWIFT. You people should have started it earlier. Wait i know why you didnt: You don't trust each other one bit and will rather cooperate/trade with us than between yourselves. Its only when we start imposing sanctions/restrictions on you people that you are left with no choice than to cooperate with each other as a last resort. So its not a real desire to cooperate per say..
Im sure when things calm down and the sanctions are lfted, everything will come back to normal, and all these will be forgotten.

nope if china and russia adopt it the eurasian union has to follow and so will iran, north korea and cuba which are banned too. Then come brics and south east asia as well as argentinia and venezuela etc. Swift ist just some computer program, the west will lose another monopoly over abusing its power in there.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

But when it comes to security the west is the biggest treat to china, of course europe and usa have bigger economy but russian economy for its size gives many benefits for china like trade trough russia to europe and oil and gas security instead of gulf which is covered by US carriers

Japan is our enemy, but it doesn't stop them to keep trading with us.

This is the magic of the globalization.

 

[mike2000]

I agree with most of your post, we have to be more proactive in order to protect ourselves from America's constant stream of sanctions. At the rate they are going, anyone could be next (apart from those already in the American camp of course).

In fact they still have an arms embargo on China since the Tiananmen incident.



I disagree with this part though.

The Russians won't forget these Western sanctions, not in a hundred years. Not even if the West recognizes Crimea as a part of Russia, which they will probably eventually do anyway.

Which means Russia will always come to China and the BRICS first. This serves our interests very well, since Russia is much more open to cooperation with us, compared to America which for example still maintains a NASA Chinese exclusion policy.

Chinese exclusion policy of NASA - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(Not that it stopped us from making space based weapons anyway, in fact we created the world's very first ASBM platform, and we have tested ASAT and HGV capability already).

Ironically, America is very happy to use Russian rockets to send their astronauts into space. Though no doubt that will change.

You do make valid/constructive arguments which i like.

However, i disagree with the fact that Russia wont forget western sanctions in a hundred years.lol Yes they might not forget, but they will have no choice but to carry on later trading/depending on us for their energy demand/sales,technology,trade, and other sectors which we still control like finance etc. Afterall, we were responsible for the fall/demonization of the U.S.S.R, yet Russia still opened up to us and wanted to even join NATO(under U.S command) which the U.S foolishly rejected. This was a big mistake from the U.S i must confess, since had they allowed Russia in, they will have basically had Russia under control/dominance and basically remove any future threat from our global dominance. Its unfortunate they rejected it. So contrary to what you might think Russia will keep on trading with us morie than it does with you.

You have to know we(west/U.S) are still by far the most powerful region in the world and basically control most of the world institutions/technology etc which the world uses/relies on. So this gives us a huge leverage. For example the U.S/E.U alone if they truly want can basically cripple a countries economy in case of all out sanctions(e.g North Korea, Zimbabwe, Cuba etc). So before you challenge us head on, make sure you are big/powerful enough/self reliant on almost every sector beofre you even stand a chance against uswhich neither China nor Russia has for now). Else you will just slow down your economy for no good reason. So my advice is keep biding your time.

As for U.S space sanctions on China, I dont find anything wrong in that. The U.S being number 1, rightly sees China as a future threat to its global dominace in the coming decades, so of course it will has to look for ways to slow it down or even derail it. Why will you help a future challenger/rival? It makes no sense. even if India, Brazil , turkey etc become powerful enough like China is, then the U. S will act same way. That's how countries /super power have reacted for decades /centuries towards an upcoming power. It will remain that way irrespective of the country.

Russia was already a space power derived from its space race days with the U.S and was virtually bancrupt after the collapse of the U.S.S.R hence there was little need for the U.S to impose sanctions on it. As for military sanctions it was due to tienamen square massacre, you have only yourself to blame. .

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

As for U.S space sanctions on China, I dont find anything wrong in that. The U.S being number 1, rightly sees China as a future threat to its global dominace in the coming decades, so of course it will has to look for ways to slow it down. Why will you help a future challenger/rival?

True enough.

So my advice is keep biding your time.

That's the plan.

2025 will be the time when we have a decent amount of power, more commensurate with our population and geography.

Bear in mind we have no need to challenge the USA for global hegemony, in fact our official policy is to never seek hegemony.

Our power is for the protection of our own sovereignty. If the USA wants to keep invading the Middle East that's their own loss.

 

[sicsheep]

You do make valid/constructive arguments which i like.

However, i disagree with the fact that Russia wont forget western sanctions in a hundred years.lol Yes they might not forget, but they will have no choice but to carry on later trading/depending on us for their energy demand/sales,technology,trade, and other sectors which we still control like finance etc. Afterall, we were responsible for the fall/demonization of the U.S.S.R, yet Russia still opened up to us and wanted to even join NATO(under U.S command) which the U.S foolishly rejected. This was a big mistake from the U.S i must confess, since had they allowed Russia in, they will have basically had Russia under control/dominance and basically remove any future threat from our global dominance. Its unfortunate they rejected it. So contrary to what you might think Russia will keep on trading with us morie than it does with you.

You have to know we(west/U.S) are still by far the most powerful region in the world and basically control most of the world institutions/technology etc which the world uses/relies on. So this gives us a huge leverage. For example the U.S/E.U alone if they truly want can basically cripple a countries economy in case of all out sanctions(e.g North Korea, Zimbabwe, Cuba etc). So before you challenge us head on, make sure you are big/powerful enough/self reliant on almost every sector beofre you even stand a chance against uswhich neither China nor Russia has for now). Else you will just slow down your economy for no good reason. So my advice is keep biding your time.

As for U.S space sanctions on China, I dont find anything wrong in that. The U.S being number 1, rightly sees China as a future threat to its global dominace in the coming decades, so of course it will has to look for ways to slow it down. Why will you help a future challenger/rival? It makes no sense. Russia was already a space power derived from its space race days with the U.S and was virtually bancrupt after the collapse of the U.S.S.R hence there was little need for the U.S to impose sanctions on it. As for military sanctions it was due to tienamen square massacre.

you talk as if NATO is one country, it is not, European nations share security interest with the US, not economic interest, the US no longer has control on it's allies like it did 30 years ago. the EU will have European nations could look out for their own interest. in the end, business is business, after 1989, Eurocopter couldn't be more happy that Sikorsky pull out.

 

[mike2000]

True enough.



That's the plan.

2025 will be the time when we have a decent amount of power, more commensurate with our population and geography.

Bear in mind we have no need to challenge the USA for global hegemony, in fact our official policy is to never seek hegemony.

Our power is for the protection of our own sovereignty. If the USA wants to keep invading the Middle East that's their own loss.

Lool it doesn't only applies to China and Russia. It applies to all other so called countries who want to challenge us without even thinking about the repercussions. Our lead in every sector is simply too large for others to easilly break in. It will decades for any country to even come close.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Works for me

Empire needs to transfer funds and Russia and China will offer a "Honest" system for Muslims

 

[sicsheep]

Lool it doesn't only applies to China and Russia. It applies to all other so called countries who want to challenge us without even thinking about the repercussions. Our lead in every sector is simply too large for others to easilly break in. It will decades for any country to even come close.

who is "us"? who do you speak for exactly? and you see this swift alternative as a challenge?
this is good business, Iran, Cuba, NK, all of them cant use swift should be able to use this.