Russia blocks sale of engines for Sino-Pak fighter jets

[praveen007]

@ penumbra
As 4 me beaing a DYSLEXIC. i reply usually throug mobil. and some times make some typo. hope u understand

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

@ penumbra. as 4 jf-17 vs mig-29. mig is the cheepest avilable mmrca avilable today. and jf-17 is not in its league.

Mig 29 is very mature plan and JF-17 is new , give it more time to catch the league.

 

[Areesh]

Late ho gaya russia bohat late ho gaya. Kids don't be too happy you are too late now.

JF-17 will still go smooth and steady as it is going right now.

Thanks.

 

[Luftwaffe]

BJlaowai..The cheapest multi-role fighter plane available on the international market right now is MiG-29. Lots of developing countries looking for some decent planes for their airforces will go for Mig-29 for making up the numbers. Most of these countries really do not have any significant security threat in the near future.

Price tag does not mean cheap, you have to look all over maintenance cost, and there mig-29 is extremely expensive, the reason Malaysian are getting rid of them in next couple of years.

mig-29 might be the cheapest on the international market but apart from india upgrading the existing ones and order for navy and Myanmar no other country is interested in ordering it, that too mayanmar will get older airframes upgraded to further reduce the price tag. So No non other developing countries are looking for mig-29.

By your own mouth you answered a country who has no security threat why would they want to buy a troubled fighter with nightmare maintenance.

In this situation, if someone comes up with a offer of cheaper plane, these countries will go for it, irrespective of relative technical advantages/disadvantages between the planes.

Wrong every Air Force has its requirement they just don't go out there and pick stuff.

Looking at the possible client list countries for FC-1, its very clear that MiG-29 is facing competition on price and not on quality.

FC-1/JF-17 does have relative quality.

The worst part for the Russians is that, they are facing a threat for this market by a plane using their own engines. This is a right move by the Russians to safeguard their market.

for the sake if I even believe it, who is going to buy mig-29? india has ordered its very last ones for navy, myanmar ordered the rest of the world is not interested. China wants to sell FC-1 with complete package in couple of years Chinese engine would be ready and has been posted over and over again on this forum.

 

[SomeGuy]

WS-13 was certified in 2007 and began serial production in 2009.

FC-1/JF-17 with WS-13 completed its first taxi test in March 2010.

So Russian cancellation is going to have very little impact.

It won't affect PAF since there are already enough engines in first deal to keep production lines going.

With WS-13 maturing, JF-17 will still be available to Egypt and should they choose it, Russia will not only lose out on fighter contract, but lose money on those engines as well.

 

[ptldM3]

Without offending anyone, Ive never been a big fan of Russian equipment, avionics, their aerospace industry and in particular their engines. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that we've squarred off against Russian/Soviet aircraft in previous wars and in Afghanistan when the PAF shot down several intruding Soviet planes.

Ground attack and transport aircraft were shot down, that doesn't equate to much. If we go further back in history we would learn that Pakistani pilots flying Mig-21's downed a number of Israeli fighter aircraft, that i would equate to something.

But, more pointedly, even in the prototype days of the first batch of F-17's, the Russian engines where problematic, bulky and not efficient.

What do you mean by "not efficient"? The RD-33/93 has a fuel consumption of 0.740 dry; the closest engine that we can compare the RD-33 in size and thrust would be the GE404. Here is the dry fuel consumption for three F404 varients and they are: 0.800, 0.853, and 0.810, there may be more efficient varients but fuel consumption for every varient is not available.

Military Turbojet/Turbofan Specifications

Further, i don not understand what you mean by "bulky" the RD-93/33 is about the same size as the F404.

To be honest, I hope the aircrafts dont have Russian engines in them at all, I would go as far as saying that I'd even prefer the older J-79's or even the old Dassault Atlas engines in them over the Russian one's; despite them being Turbojet engines. Granted, the Russian industry has come along way and has made considerable strides to make up the gap as they do have some interesting designs in the pipelines; but so far, in actual performance and combat situations, their performance have been dismal.

We can not help it if pethetic airforces gave Russian aircraft a bad name, if Arab pilots were as good as as the Pakistani pilots that downed Israeli in our Mig-21's aircraft then the outcome would have been very different.

 

[ejaz007]

And I thought this thread was about "Russia blocks sale of engines for Sino-Pak fighter jets".

First an old thread is revived and then the battle of the posts begins and that too not relevant to the topic. Good work keep it up guys

 

[Developereo]

This is just a temper tantrum by the Russians; they will relent in the end and allow the engines to be exported.

In business, you can't hold your customers hostage to random whims. If Russia continues to act this way, they will lose China as a customer. The Chinese have money, lot$$$$ of it, and the Russians are desperate for cash.

In the end, money talks.

 

[T-Rex]

great news...i want this...this will help us to get involved in R&D in this field too....Insha Allah soon we will see some new engines MADE IN PAKISTAN....

Pakistan should have started developing its own jet engine long time ago. I don't know what kept them from doing so, perhaps a jet engine is too complex, but I do believe that Pakistanis can build jet engines if they put their mind to it and try hard.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Russians are looking for replace their mig-29s and what better way to sell their air force inventory for as good as $22-24 million a unit with low upgrades/updates, which is good for next 5-7 years support and than worth replacement. Soon the usaf F-16 inventory would be out for sale to many current operators and new ones with best quality and support for years to come who needs mig-29s.

 

[RescueRanger]

As I said It is a very good move by Russia. Now Russia can sell entire plane instead of just engine.

A moment of celebration for us.

Dance all you want, we are still getting the engines and we are still getting the aircraft...

 

[ptldM3]

This is just a temper tantrum by the Russians; they will relent in the end and allow the engines to be exported.

In business, you can't hold your customers hostage to random whims.

That is not fair, many other countries such as the US have stopped supplying their clients too.

Imagine if India purchased Chinese jet engines for their LCA, then imagine the LCA being a direct competitor to Chinese aircraft.

If Russia continues to act this way, they will lose China as a customer. The Chinese have money, lot$$$$ of it, and the Russians are desperate for cash.
In the end, money talks.

There are a number of Russian arms manufacturers that have have made large profits, so much so that Russia is second in arms exports and the sales for 2010 is expected to rise.

More importantly this is not the first time Russia has declined to sell arms, so no, Russian arms companies are not desperate, not even close.

 

[fatman17]

who started this BS again!!!

 

[TaimiKhan]

who started this BS again!!!

Not hard to guess

 

[Awesome]

Russians are going to do a flip flop again.

Two factors can be speculated, and both fall short

1) India doesn't want this deal. China is a bigger buyer of Russian hardware than India and we all know that if Putin himself came and installed the engines on the JF-17, India will still not ditch the Russians.

2) Competition? JF-17 vs Mig 29 has been previously unheard of. Moreover they only stand to lose a sale of the engines as the WS-13 is just about to hit the market. This could've worked when they first did this flip flop 5 years ago. The plane would sell - for cheaper!

Russians will try to drive up the costs by a tad. But won't stop it completely.

Not to mention that the Russians plan to sell plenty more Engines to Chinese and half of China's motivation with them is to re-export.

Remember the order is for a total of 500 RD-93 engines, not just the 100 for Pakistan.