Russia and India at odds over MTA powerplant

[Blue Marlin]

What I am saying is that the MTA (and by extension KC-390) is not really the optimal solution as the IAF's replacment for the AN-32 (being turbofan) but the industrial benefits the MTA was to bring offset these drawbacks. With the KC-390 there would be no such industrial benefits for India and thus only a comprimised product as far as the IAF is concerned. Addtionally, inducting another type and one as "internationalised" as the KC-390 would be a more complex task for the IAF than either inducting the MTA or further C-130s. Brazil is not really on India's radar as far as expanding ties goes (as it is another devloping nation and a stumbling one at that) so there isn't even a poltical argument for the KC-390 for India.
.

no disrepect here lad but. if they are looking to replace the an-32 when just build more c295 which are already on order which tata is building. the 214 is a good jet and i get what your saying where brazil is not important for india. but if you put political need aside the kc-390 beats the 214. what about the c-27j? well that lost to the c295. i think its best if they got more c295's to keep the production line open for as long as possible, and try selling them abroad too.

 

[Abingdonboy]

no disrepect here lad but. if they are looking to replace the an-32 when just build more c295 which are already on order which tata is building. the 214 is a good jet and i get what your saying where brazil is not important for india. but if you put political need aside the kc-390 beats the 214. what about the c-27j? well that lost to the c295. i think its best if they got more c295's to keep the production line open for as long as possible, and try selling them abroad too.

The C-295W is being procured to replace the IAF's HS-748s as the lowest rung of the IAF's transport fleet and not to replace the AN-32 for which the IAF is looking for a far more capable airlifter. The main drawbacks of the C-295 vis a vis the MTA are:

1) cabin volume/dimensions:

The C-295 is about on par with the AN-32 but inadequate when compared to the IL-76/MTA or even C-130. The C-27J would have addressed this issue to a degree but it was not selected so this is a moot point.


2)Payload, the C-295 can carry just about half of the payload of the MTA.



The C-130XJ presents to most attractive option for the IAF as an alternative to the MTA. The IAF requires a turboprop in my opinion for this role for their inherent "rough field" capability which is abdudently required for the IAF's tactical transport fleet ( not as much from their strategic air life fleet) especially in the North East. The XJ's cabin is of sufficent size to present the most utility to the IAF and there will be commonaility with exsisting assets in the IAF not to mention the industrial benefits that could come from an XJ purchase- a C-130 production line in India sounds pretty attractive to me.

 

[Blue Marlin]

The C-295W is being procured to replace the IAF's HS-748s as the lowest rung of the IAF's transport fleet and not to replace the AN-32 for which the IAF is looking for a far more capable airlifter. The main drawbacks of the C-295 vis a vis the MTA are:

1) cabin volume/dimensions:

The C-295 is about on par with the AN-32 but inadequate when compared to the IL-76/MTA or even C-130. The C-27J would have addressed this issue to a degree but it was not selected so this is a moot point.


2)Payload, the C-295 can carry just about half of the payload of the MTA.



The C-130XJ presents to most attractive option for the IAF as an alternative to the MTA. The IAF requires a turboprop in my opinion for this role for their inherent "rough field" capability which is abdudently required for the IAF's tactical transport fleet ( not as much from their strategic air life fleet) especially in the North East. The XJ's cabin is of sufficent size to present the most utility to the IAF and there will be commonaility with exsisting assets in the IAF not to mention the industrial benefits that could come from an XJ purchase- a C-130 production line in India sounds pretty attractive to me.

bud its getting late and i dont know what i even said to you, im all out of coffee i shall answer you tommorow. later

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

With all due respect to Russia western platforms are gaining favourites among Indian forces. Not at all surprised. They have all been designed with user interest in mind. They are holding their own in subcontinental conditions and are now a beast.

 

[axisofevil]

What I am saying is that the MTA (and by extension KC-390) is not really the optimal solution as the IAF's replacment for the AN-32 (being turbofan) but the industrial benefits the MTA was to bring offset these drawbacks. With the KC-390 there would be no such industrial benefits for India and thus only a comprimised product as far as the IAF is concerned. Addtionally, inducting another type and one as "internationalised" as the KC-390 would be a more complex task for the IAF than either inducting the MTA or further C-130s. Brazil is not really on India's radar as far as expanding ties goes (as it is another devloping nation and a stumbling one at that) so there isn't even a poltical argument for the KC-390 for India.


And yet they do expect such and when it appears the Indian side is reluctant they dangle the threat of defence sales to Pakistan in front of India....

Yup....no real friend. They sat and allowed China to gain expertise. If India had done the same things as China, Russia would have treated us differently. They help when it suits them. As someone pointed out.....it is not an all weather relationship anymore. To be fair India lost some golden opportunities when it had a chance to absorb Russian scientists after the collapse of the USSR.....our incompetent gov'ts are to blame. I hope our ppl keep the eye on the ball for the yrs to come......with the internet, social media, apps, youtube, etc.....the way corrupt politicians and parties used to operate can no longer be the same.

 

[Nilgiri]

To be fair India lost some golden opportunities when it had a chance to absorb Russian scientists after the collapse of the USSR.

This was brought up in a talk at the Hudson institute recently.

Apparently Yeltsin made a very generous "one-time" offer to India which India refused. Apparently many experts have since said India should be kicking itself hard for that lost opportunity.

 

[axisofevil]

This was brought up in a talk at the Hudson institute recently.

Apparently Yeltsin made a very generous "one-time" offer to India which India refused. Apparently many experts have since said India should be kicking itself hard for that lost opportunity.

Any good reason why India refused. Im still at a lost for words. It doesn't make sense. The only thing that adds up is a certain party or politicians working against India' interests time and time again....

 

[Nilgiri]

Any good reason why India refused. Im still at a lost for words. It doesn't make sense. The only thing that adds up is a certain party or politicians working against India' interests time and time again....

It befuddles me too, because it was Narasimha Rao at the helm back then...one of the few from the "other side" that I respect (passing the slip of paper to Vajpai that the "bomb is ready" etc.). Because this offer was made somewhat unofficially (more of a closed doors proposal), it is firstly not heard about much (similar to the Israeli request to be able to bomb Pakistan reactors) and secondly is lost in the din of larger news of that period (babri masjid, economic crisis + reform, lingering bofors case + rajiv assasination).

There will be no follow up or investigation of who what where and why and that ship has long sailed anyway. Absolutely pathetic.

 

[axisofevil]

It befuddles me too, because it was Narasimha Rao at the helm back then...one of the few from the "other side" that I respect (passing the slip of paper to Vajpai that the "bomb is ready" etc.). Because this offer was made somewhat unofficially (more of a closed doors proposal), it is firstly not heard about much (similar to the Israeli request to be able to bomb Pakistan reactors) and secondly is lost in the din of larger news of that period (babri masjid, economic crisis + reform, lingering bofors case + rajiv assasination).

There will be no follow up or investigation of who what where and why and that ship has long sailed anyway. Absolutely pathetic.

Oh damn it was Rao at the helm? Mmm...very puzzling to say the least. I know what you mean, any meaningful insight, follow ups or investigations will hit a wall with no answers.


Israel and India should work 300% into overdrive. However, Israel is doing its best to court China to some degree.


We need to infuse new blood into politics.....the dinosaurs won't go extinct.

 

[proud_indian]

This was brought up in a talk at the Hudson institute recently.

Apparently Yeltsin made a very generous "one-time" offer to India which India refused. Apparently many experts have since said India should be kicking itself hard for that lost opportunity.

What offer are you talking about guyz?

 

[Nilgiri]

What offer are you talking about guyz?

Details are sketchy. It was around 1993, around same time the cryogenic Upper Stage for GSLV was being negotiated. It included massive import of Russian defence scientists in many fields (radars, submarines, aircraft, missiles, engines etc) along with various blueprints that India could choose from regarding such things as Tu-22, tanks, FCS, avionics + material tech.

But I guess Rao was worried about financing this somewhat and also dealing with the US pressure (manifested by loan squeeze from IMF and WB as needed....when Indian economy was just starting to recover from 1991)

 

[Super Falcon]

Wastage of funds if it was case why bought C 130 and C 17

 

[Abingdonboy]

Wastage of funds if it was case why bought C 130 and C 17

Different catergories of aircraft with different roles.