Routes to Central Asia being constructed, says Nawaz

[Hyde]

both routes should exist..
its not impossible tough terrrain..the bottle neck was lawari tunnel

Pakistan should try to pursue Afghanistan to sell that tiny piece of land to Pakistan like we did for Gwadar so that our direct route with Central Asia could be established. I am not convinced if it is a good idea to invest near the wakhan corridor to shorter link with Tajikistan when you could also do it from pre established route passing through Afghanistan.

The economy of Tajikistan is not stable enough to justify the cost of the project. Building KKH was a different ball game as you were talking about links with China and it didn't require permission of third country as in case of Afghanistan. I am in favour of encouraging Tajikistan to allocate funds for Road link via Wakhan Corrdidor to Pakistan if she wants to gain access to Gwadar. Pakistan must avoid setting its feet in no mans land of Wakhan corridor unless it is absolute necessity. Our current trade requirements could be fulfiled by existing Peshawar to Kabul route going towards Tajikistan.

The other alternative route is to build small highway in Tajikistan to connect with existing KKH after it enters China so Afghanistan could be bypassed if needed. Karakoram Highway is soon going to be upgraded to 3 lanes so Takikistan can easily be linked with it after it enters China

there are a lots of thing that are only found in the minds of fan boys.

Excuse me... Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?

 

[xyxmt]

Excuse me... Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?

I am disagreeing with you smarty, a jeepable track is made by local driving jeep on a piece of land and it becomes a form of a road overtime but that doesnt mean it was a road already there.

have you been to these areas before trolling kid ?

first of all you dont call you chacha your kid, do you?
I am from that area puter

 

[Hyde]

I am disagreeing with you smarty, a jeepable track is made by local driving jeep on a piece of land and it becomes a form of a road overtime but that doesnt mean it was a road already there.



first of all you dont call you chacha your kid, do you?
I am from that area puter

Right, I see you are over smart and quoting my post by mistaking it with other members post.

I didn't say anything like that, it's the other member you probably are talking to

 

[aks18]

I am disagreeing with you smarty, a jeepable track is made by local driving jeep on a piece of land and it becomes a form of a road overtime but that doesnt mean it was a road already there.



first of all you dont call you chacha your kid, do you?
I am from that area puter

kid if your are from that area have you seen karakoram highway between kohistan chillas area and up in sost to khunjrab have you seen how we have made KKH and how chinese has upgraded it ?

 

[ito]

Networked economies are the future. Good that Pakistan too realized their importance.

 

[aks18]

and kid if you have seen karakoram highway how it is built in such a tough terrain that too of 800km that too in 1970s

 

[xyxmt]

kid if your are from that area have you seen karakoram highway between kohistan chillas area and up in sost to khunjrab have you seen how we have made KKH and how chinese has upgraded it ?

puter, Chinese are working on that road since last 30 years on and off, we first heard of it in Zia time when old silk road project started, but thats the time when your mommy was wiping your nose so you obviously dont know about it.

Lowari Tunnel project idea was discussed in the National Assembly of Pakistan by the MNA from Chitral Attalique Jaafar Ali Shah during 1972-75. Work on the tunnel began on 8 September 1975 inaugurated by PM Pakistan Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto but was stopped in 1976 due to Military takeover of civilian government and on the pretext of lack of funds and other development priorities, work on the tunnel did not restart until September 2005. So it was not Musharaf the great who concieved the idea.

 

[aks18]

puter, Chinese are working on that road since last 30 years on and off, we first heard of it in Zia time when old silk road project started, but thats the time when your mommy was wiping your nose so you obviously dont know about it.

Lowari Tunnel project idea was discussed in the National Assembly of Pakistan by the MNA from Chitral Attalique Jaafar Ali Shah during 1972-75. Work on the tunnel began on 8 September 1975 inaugurated by PM Pakistan Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto but was stopped in 1976 due to Military takeover of civilian government and on the pretext of lack of funds and other development priorities, work on the tunnel did not restart until September 2005. So it was not Musharaf the great who concieved the idea.

i know lowari tunnel project is half century old project but musharaf financed it and started building it along gawadar ... you didnt answered me when last time you visited karakoram highway ? and other tough mountainous area roads in GB ???

 

[slapshot]

Pakistan should try to pursue Afghanistan to sell that tiny piece of land to Pakistan like we did for Gwadar so that our direct route with Central Asia could be established.

That's a very good point my friend. I wonder if this same thought crossed the minds of strategic think tanks in political parties or military ranks?

 

[xyxmt]

i know lowari tunnel project is half century old project but musharaf financed it and started building it along gawadar ... you didnt answered me when last time you visited karakoram highway ? and other tough mountainous area roads in GB ???

I have never been to Japan

that was to make a point
but i was there in august of 2005, now what does that prove?
I have never been to 99% places in Pakistan

That's a very good point my friend. I wonder if this same thought crossed the minds of strategic think tanks in political parties or military ranks?

many people have put this idea forward before but Afghan wont sell it, if coridore goes thru it they will have lifetime income.

 

[B+ Dracula]

Pakistan should try to pursue Afghanistan to sell that tiny piece of land to Pakistan like we did for Gwadar so that our direct route with Central Asia could be established. I am not convinced if it is a good idea to invest near the wakhan corridor to shorter link with Tajikistan when you could also do it from pre established route passing through Afghanistan.

---
Now we are unable to buy that piece of land from afghanistan, we could in 1950 onwards but not in todays scenario....but i support that idea by twisting some major demographic changes

1) We can invite Afghan rufugees plus pathans/punjabis from pakistan to settle in Wakhan strip and at the same time give them dual nationality....bcoz i think ....those Afghan Refugees living here in pakistan for decades have positive image about us (as compared to Afghans living in Afghanistan) and they can speak Urdu

2) Declare FATA as 5th Province of Pakistan and build some major cities like Peshawar or islamabad, so they get accustomed to Civil life instead of traditional tribal milieu

3) Offer them a Win-Win situation, our progress must be directly proportional to the progress of Afghan lands,...in a long term more they generate activities in our land more they become rich

 

[Hyde]

---
Now we are unable to buy that piece of land from afghanistan, we could in 1950 onwards but not in todays scenario....but i support that idea by twisting some major demographic changes

1) We can invite Afghan rufugees plus pathans/punjabis from pakistan to settle in Wakhan strip and at the same time give them dual nationality....bcoz i think ....those Afghan Refugees living here in pakistan for decades have positive image about us (as compared to Afghans living in Afghanistan) and they can speak Urdu

2) Declare FATA as 5th Province of Pakistan and build some major cities like Peshawar or islamabad, so they get accustomed to Civil life instead of traditional tribal milieu

3) Offer them a Win-Win situation, our progress must be directly proportional to the progress of Afghan lands,...in a long term more they generate activities in our land more they become rich

That tiny piece of land (wakhan corridor) is not suitable for living. The weather conditions are extreme, being a remote area it will not be able to support sufficient supply of food, has 0 road links and is in close proximity to 4 extremely indifferent countries

It's likely to remain uninhibited for the next 100 years unless major road link is ever developed. It's like living in Antarctica so survival of life is very difficult

 

[B+ Dracula]

That tiny piece of land (wakhan corridor) is not suitable for living. The weather conditions are extreme, being a remote area it will not be able to support sufficient supply of food, has 0 road links and is in close proximity to 4 extremely indifferent countries

It's likely to remain uninhibited for the next 100 years unless major road link is ever developed. It's like living in Antarctica so survival of life is very difficult

I've no idea about that....thanks for information

 

[aks18]

---
Now we are unable to buy that piece of land from afghanistan, we could in 1950 onwards but not in todays scenario....but i support that idea by twisting some major demographic changes

1) We can invite Afghan rufugees plus pathans/punjabis from pakistan to settle in Wakhan strip and at the same time give them dual nationality....bcoz i think ....those Afghan Refugees living here in pakistan for decades have positive image about us (as compared to Afghans living in Afghanistan) and they can speak Urdu

2) Declare FATA as 5th Province of Pakistan and build some major cities like Peshawar or islamabad, so they get accustomed to Civil life instead of traditional tribal milieu

3) Offer them a Win-Win situation, our progress must be directly proportional to the progress of Afghan lands,...in a long term more they generate activities in our land more they become rich

those afghan refugees are more into black money and illegal businesses in FATA KPK Karachi and many major cities of pakistan they have taken over businesses of local pakistani pathans in kpk peshawar we need to get rid of these afghans if we want prosper pakistan we had given enough to these refugees we need to accommodate our people

I have never been to Japan

that was to make a point
but i was there in august of 2005, now what does that prove?
I have never been to 99% places in Pakistan



many people have put this idea forward before but Afghan wont sell it, if coridore goes thru it they will have lifetime income.

if you havent been to 99% places in pakistan then how can you conclude that a dirt track couldnt be converted into a proper road link with tajikistan via wakhan corridor ?? if we can make KKH all weather road in such tough terrain then linking a few kms road isnt impossible all we need it to deal with afghanis wakhan corridor is just being wasted road link will bring huge chunk of foreign tourists and we can also promote hindukush mountain range as we own major peaks in pakistan of this range

 

[TVVELVEMO$]

I am flummoxed to see lack of consensus on this key issue here.

Backgrounder: There is a great deal to say about this "Belt and Road" (BAR) / CPEC. This is Pakistan’s Suez Canal and more. This mammoth undertaking requires detailed analysis - perhaps another day . Within Pakistan there is a storm in a teacup regarding the initial route using the motorway. This seems to reflect lack of understanding/experience regarding mega infrastructure projects and their second and third order effects that ripple through economic food chain. The need of the hour is for Pakistan to continue implementing the project systematically and let the Business World know it is happening on schedule. In order to go about it swiftly, it makes perfect sense to initially make use of infrastructure already in place, i.e. the Motorway project(M2,3,4,5). If the predictions are realized, a single 6-lane highway will get clogged with Transnational, long-haul, high-speed, time-sensitive freight (TEU) being carried by heavy-duty freightliner Semis (what you guys call lorries but bigger). This may cause friction between TransPak and local traffic. There will be accidents, legal implications, pilferage and corruption leading to complaints from Chinese businesses. Once tonnage exceeds 15 million TEU, China will most likely request Pakistan to plan a dedicated expressway for TransPak freight/commercial traffic destined for Urumqi and points North/North-East…even Chengdu!! I anticipate that to happen by 2022-25. They may also ask you to make it a "Right-hand" side traffic flow, make the design more Euro-Chinese for speed and other specs. Perhaps Pakistan should study changing over from colonial legacy road specs to more integrated with Berlin-Beijing design standards. It will be easier to do at the very outset then later on. In any case, Pakistan is going to need at least one more North-South Highway.

Coming to the issue of land link with Tajikistan: why would Pakistan want to forgo a strategically pivotal Bypass? Does Pakistan want to be a one-act play only? Because this will create a choke-point in the Northern Pakistan where the famed KKH is vulnerable to bad weather, earthquakes, rock & landslides, floods, local politics, unforseen mischief from unknown (sic) sources! Anyone who has crossed Swiss-Italian borders in the Alps (E62 Lausanne-Simplon Pass-Milan) knows that a backed up lines of trucks for tens of miles is bad for time-sensitive cargo. What if the problem lasts for over 48-72 hours. In International business time that is an eternity. Without options, all flow will stop and ripple back to Gwadar port operations and beyond. Pakistan will be getting complaints from global shippers, insurers, and their clients. Trust me that is worse than thinktankers, journalists, diplomats pestering you about security issues these days. That would be "REAL" bad press and justifiably so.

Ergo Pakistan must not put all her eggs in the Karakorum basket. Please take my advice and create "OPTIONS" for yourselves. That is where the Lowari-Chitral-Durah/Dilisang/Broghil Pass-Eshkashem-Dushanbe becomes relevant. Sarhad-Broghil to Ishkoshim is jeepable so basically Pakistan has to lay asphalt right upto Broghil on their turf. Also part of Wakhan can be traversed via tunnel to hedge against inclement elements. It is feasible and already studied in a prelim. Considering the strategic import of TransOxus, it behoves Pakistan to begin laying facts on the ground for a favorable future….l will leave it at that for now! This Chitral Bypass/Spur will enable all traffic to reenter China at Tajik-Chinese border via Eshkashem-Khorog-Murghab-Kulmar Pass (M41; 300m). That is already open to some traffic. Two major Tajik trucking companies SorbonoTrans &Tojiron have 40-25 ton trucks ready to use this route. Once there is a completed link available it will be hard for Afghan authorities to block at least Tajik two-way transport to Gwadar. You can build on that later.

BTW, the Kabul-Salang-Balkh-Termez has many, many problems, trust me on this!
There are many ‘protagonists’ to negotiate with, and Salang is a major choke point in many ways. It can be a tertiary option that will only mature whence TAPI is in play. One last tip: Pakistan will find it much easier to work with Tajikistan than Uzbekistan. And Eastern Tajikistan, Wakhan, Northern Chitral has a Wakhi ethnic dispersion which helps. They are all the same peoples.

Cheers.