Ring brings ancient Viking, Islamic civilizations closer together

[jamahir]

You do realise early Shias were mostly Arabs right?

i know that, but that fact has nothing to do with hashisheen... i just wondered if irani culture might not have produced hashisheen... compare it to the present ayatollahs who were so "strange" that iraq was compelled to go to war against the khomenei system.

 

[Kabira]

i know that, but that fact has nothing to do with hashisheen... i just wondered if irani culture might not have produced hashisheen... compare it to the present ayatollahs who were so "strange" that iraq was compelled to go to war against the khomenei system.

Iranis converted to shiasm just 3 hundred years ago. Before majority of them were sunnis.

 

[jamahir]

Iranis converted to shiasm just 3 hundred years ago. Before majority of them were sunnis.

sure, but consider the headquarters of the hashisheen, the alamut castle within iran territory.

my point was that irani culture seems to have a certain sympathy towards religious fanaticism.

just that... i wasn't talking about sunni or shia.

 

[Taygibay]

Thanks to Akheilos and Sven for the infos but just a precision :
many historians have stated that, from texts, and objects, we can guess that at least a few or
the Vikings went all the way to Bagdad.
At the very least, they traded in Istanbul/Constantinople with Bagdadi merchants.
This is why I personally had read the news but not thought much of it.

It does raise a question if someone here has a historical knowledge of early Islam however.
Following the discussion here, could it be that some Muslims of that time might have had a
less strict view of offering the ring to a Viking? I'd like a reference please, not just an opinion.

In any case, we can also surmise that a Muslim trader might have accompanied the Vikings
on a trip back to their lands ( at least to Kyiv ) and died while on the trip. That could explain
how a Viking might have been in possession of the ring without it being sold? And then either
in reverence to the passed friend or simply out of esthetic appreciation, have kept the object.

Good day all, Tay.

 

[Dubious]

less strict view of offering the ring to a Viking

You do know that during the Khalifah era, delegates were sent to all parts of the world inviting the people to Islam and some letters contained verses from the Quran...What the kings and Queens of their time did with the letter is not entirely known but I guess it has nothing to do with strictness....

It is the South Asians who elevate the Quran and its verses to such a height they no longer find themselves worthy enough to read it...while all over the world, non Muslims are invited to Islam by giving them the Quran...what they do with it is entirely up to them! Heck anyone can purchase a copy from a bookstore or from Ebay and do what they like with it...

Who knows Vikings liked the ring or were invited to Islam or just plain business....

 

[MastanKhan]

There was an Arab who went there his name was Ahmad Ibn Fadlan during Caliphate in Baghdad. He was considered as First person who Contact Al Majus(Viking in Arabic) from the Muslim World. Western Media have even Made a Movie about his Journey to Viking Lands by the Name of 13th Worrier starring Antonio Bendaras. It is a fiction of course but good Movie.

The book is written by Michael Crichton---a very nice read----.

 

[Taygibay]

@Akheilos Oh, I know about the Quran, I have one myself. But even without more precisions,
I like your reminder about the era. I just wish I had a source. Maybe if they can find where the ring
was made, it would help.

@Gazi I noticed something in MastanKhan's quote of your post : Worrier
unless that particular Muslim was a nervous wreck, I change that O back to an A?

And good evening all, Tay.

 

[Dubious]

@Akheilos Oh, I know about the Quran, I have one myself. But even without more precisions,
I like your reminder about the era. I just wish I had a source. Maybe if they can find where the ring
was made, it would help.

Restricting Islam is not gonna get you anywhere...

If in that era people had behaved according to your thinking, then Islam would not have spread further than Arab speaking nations!

How would Islam spread if we keep ELEVATING Islam to such heights and deciding whom to "honour" the msg to? Had that been the case, only the people of Mekkah and Madina would be allowed in that cult...Such restricted thinking would have stopped everyone from sending out invitations to other people (Africans, Malaysians, South Asians) Heck, many of us wouldnt be Muslims!

How do you think Islam spread if everything was kept to ourselves?

 

[Taygibay]

We seem to be having a misunderstanding here @Akheilos mate!?

I did not imply the restriction per say but simply took over from posters who said that
something marked with the name of Allah would likely not have been sold or given.
Hence my question to a reference to a clear text for the habits of the time regarding this.

For instance, at certain times giving a pendant with the Holy Cross would have been "haram"
and at others permissible but in Judaism, a star of David would never be given to a gentile?

I know about cultural exchanges and texts my friend; I'm only referring to the object itself.
Good evening, I'll read you later GTG Tay.

 

[Dubious]

I did not imply the restriction per say but simply took over from posters who said that
something marked with the name of Allah would likely not have been sold or given.
Hence my question to a reference to a clear text for the habits of the time regarding this.

For instance, at certain times giving a pendant with the Holy Cross would have been "haram"
and at others permissible but in Judaism, a star of David would never be given to a gentile?

Interesting...I am very sure such restrictions were not a part of Islam....why?

Because Islam is for everyone and this was well established even back then!

I know about cultural exchanges and texts my friend; I'm only referring to the object itself.
Good evening, I'll read you later GTG Tay.

There is no harm in exchanging objects...Not a word in the Quran forbids people to do exchange things....Sure some misguided Mullah would tell you such things but like I said, if letters and invitations (paper can also be a thing) were sent freely, why have sudden restrictions on a ring?

BTW, Christians in Arab land also use the word ALLAH to refer to god...If you want to take that route...

As for you being very sure, can you back up such a claim? If a Quran can be given why not a ring??

 

[Taygibay]

@Akheilos I really have to go but do read my posts again mate!
I did not say anywhere that I was very sure of this restriction thing.
You did in your answer. Which is why I think its only a misunderstanding?

I have to log off, talk to you later, Tay.

 

[Dubious]

but simply took over from posters who said that
something marked with the name of Allah would likely not have been sold or given.

which poster?

Random google brought me this verse:

Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion nor drove you out of your homes. Verily, Allah loves those who deal with equity (60:8)

And again, if a Quran (which has the word ALLAH many times in it) can be given or even bought freely, I dont see the forbidding of a ring or any other object...

Yes there are some scholars who claim that stuff with ALLAH engraved shouldnt be worn as people would bring them to the washroom and that is disrespectful....

Apart from that there is no absolute reason to object to it...

Hope that answers your question!

 

[patriotpakistan]

The Viking likely traded the ring for his goods and brought it back for his wife, or an arab trader went back with the vikings and married a viking woman.

 

[Taygibay]

which poster?

These three were the ones debating it mate :

Muslims don't touch the name of Allah in state of impurity. So it is'nt possible they would sell or gift product this kind to such impure people. It tells the obvious what would've happened.

well it can be in some culture , but i never see anyone wearing a ring with Written Allah in it ...
many people here in South Asia wear Necklaces , with written Allah and Rasool ( Muhammad Pbuh )

precisely... though there were disruptions brought in by the taliban of those times, the hashisheen.

by the way, aga khan comes from that line, you know.

I was just picking up their discussion. And that's why I was asking for a documented proof that it was forbidden. My own knowledge goes the same way yours given in answer does.

Tay.

 

[Jaanbaz]

that irani culture seems to have a certain sympathy towards religious fanaticism.

That seems to be true in most Muslim countries due to corrupt clergy who twist Islamic theology to promote extremism.