Rice: It's Time for a New Middle East

[sigatoka]

See the Colonels response about Kofi. He is far from powerless, for instance it is under his aegis that hezbolah has been able to re-equip and dig in in southern Lebanon, despite numerous reports from UNIFIL.
And I seriously doubt that the UN under Kofi Annan is capable of mounting a force capable of enforcing the peace.

I suggested NATO or ABCA because both have the capabilities to deploy and ROE's that would enable them to enforce the peace, if you can come up with another solution I'm more than open to persuasion.

U.N. is a neutral force, the last time the Marines were there they had their *** blown off. The U.N.'s ability to work requires both sides to at least committ to not fighting. Under even a different sec. general the U.N. would have been no different and no more effective.

NATO troops are struggling in Afghanistan and havent even offered to help in Iraq, i doubt they have the will to enter into Lebanon and forcefully disarm Hezbolla which Israel is struggling to do (even by using collective punishment).

 

[parihaka]

U.N. is a neutral force, the last time the Marines were there they had their *** blown off. The U.N.'s ability to work requires both sides to at least committ to not fighting. Under even a different sec. general the U.N. would have been no different and no more effective.

Which pretty much sums up why the UN shouldn't be there. They've failed in preventing the buildup of hezbolah forces, and under the same ROE's would fail in enforcing a new peace.

NATO troops are struggling in Afghanistan and havent even offered to help in Iraq, i doubt they have the will to enter into Lebanon and forcefully disarm Hezbolla which Israel is struggling to do (even by using collective punishment).

My read on Afghanistan is that they are anything but failing. It would have been easier if they'd undertaken these missions immediately post Tora Bora but there's no use in crying over spilt milk. Yes they've taken casualties, but the rump Taliban is getting fried, and there's a lot less concern over casualties now than there was pre 9/11.
The only way an enforcable peace can be maintained is if hezbolah are disarmed and this requires the co-operation of the Lebanese govt. to allow search and seizure, followed by prosecution.
Hezbolahs statement that the real battle will be with the Lebanese once the Israeli incursions are over might actually stiffen the Lebanese govts resolve in this matter.

 

[sigatoka]

1. Which pretty much sums up why the UN shouldn't be there. They've failed in preventing the buildup of hezbolah forces, and under the same ROE's would fail in enforcing a new peace.

2. My read on Afghanistan is that they are anything but failing. It would have been easier if they'd undertaken these missions immediately post Tora Bora but there's no use in crying over spilt milk. Yes they've taken casualties, but the rump Taliban is getting fried, and there's a lot less concern over casualties now than there was pre 9/11.

3. The only way an enforcable peace can be maintained is if hezbolah are disarmed and this requires the co-operation of the Lebanese govt. to allow search and seizure, followed by prosecution.

1. So your suggesting that if the current situation is not fully effective we should remove all U.N. troops and get a worse situation.

2. The Taliban is getting stronger not weaker as you suggest.

3. Thats your opinion, maybe Israel should discontinue in its path of war crimes for an enforcable peace to be maintained?

 

[parihaka]

1. So your suggesting that if the current situation is not fully effective we should remove all U.N. troops and get a worse situation.

The current situation regards the UN is in no way effective, and UN troops are getting killed, so how would it be worse? The UN's position was further undermined when they asked 'permission' of Israel to establish a corridor to evacuate civilians and were refused. A ceasefire needs to be established and an armed force capable of enforcing the peace needs to go in. The UN has not suggested a force capable of doing this, only Tony Blair and the French have advocated this, with American backing.

2. The Taliban is getting stronger not weaker as you suggest.

Casualty rates suggest otherwise.

3. Thats your opinion, maybe Israel should discontinue in its path of war crimes for an enforcable peace to be maintained?

War crimes are for the politicos to investigate and establish tribunals, and both Israel and the Syrians/Iranians whose mercanary army hezbolah is should be equally culpable. Under that scenario I have no dispute.

 

[sigatoka]

1. The current situation regards the UN is in no way effective, and UN troops are getting killed, so how would it be worse?

2. Casualty rates suggest otherwise.

3. War crimes are for the politicos to investigate and establish tribunals, and both Israel and the Syrians/Iranians whose mercanary army hezbolah is should be equally culpable. Under that scenario I have no dispute.

1. This point is bordering on the ludicrous, by the same statement we should abandon trade between nations because we are unable to reach free trade, we should abandon the justice system in nations because innocent people get convicted and the guilty are let free.

2. The number of body bags doenst suggest who is winning or losing.


3. If Syria and Iran are there, the U.S. should be there too. (U.S. delivered extra bombs by plane which are being put to good effect blowing apart children, women and elderly). The amount of support and weaponry that Israel gets suggests it could be considered the mercanary army of U.S.

 

[parihaka]

1. This point is bordering on the ludicrous, by the same statement we should abandon trade between nations because we are unable to reach free trade, we should abandon the justice system in nations because innocent people get convicted and the guilty are let free.

Your advocating that UN troops should be cannon fodder and I'm being ludicrous? We are talking about war here, remember?

2. The number of body bags doenst suggest who is winning or losing.

4 Taliban militants killed by premature roadside bombs in S. Afghanistan http://english.people.com.cn/200607/31/eng20060731_288256.html
Coalition forces kill 20 Taliban rebels in Afghanistan

http://news.monstersandcritics.com/southasia/article_1185234.php/Coalition_forces_kill_20_Taliban_rebels_in_Afghanistan

613 Taliban-linked insurgents killed in Afghanistan

http://www.indianmuslims.info/news/2006/july/30/muslim_world_news/613_taliban_linked_insurgents_killed_in_afghanistan.html

Sorry, but my read differs drastically from yours. In any war of attrition, NATO wins.

3. If Syria and Iran are there, the U.S. should be there too. (U.S. delivered extra bombs by plane which are being put to good effect blowing apart children, women and elderly). The amount of support and weaponry that Israel gets suggests it could be considered the mercanary army of U.S.

Whatever. If you can demonstrate in even a UN court your accusations, then good luck to you. Doesn't mean squat in terms of the ongoing war though, does it?
How exactly would you advocate an end to the current hostilities, or do you simply want to see Israel destroyed?

 

[sigatoka]

1. Your advocating that UN troops should be cannon fodder and I'm being ludicrous?

2. Sorry, but my read differs drastically from yours. In any war of attrition, NATO wins.

3. Whatever. If you can demonstrate in even a UN court your accusations, then good luck to you.

Doesn't mean squat in terms of the ongoing war though, does it?

How exactly would you advocate an end to the current hostilities, or do you simply want to see Israel destroyed?

1. Well maybe Israel could stop killing them?

2. Yes, just like American's won in Vietnam and the Soviets in Afghanistan.

3. of course it cant be down, anything condemning the U.S. or Israel is vetoed by Big Sam.

No, it doesn't.

Israel could stop blowing apart hundreds of civilians and destroying hundred upon hundreds of dwellings, factories and so forth for a start.

I never said I wanted to see Israel destroyed and that is a common diversionary tactic used by Israel and the U.S. to justify their war crimes.

 

[parihaka]

1. Well maybe Israel could stop killing them?

2. Yes, just like American's won in Vietnam and the Soviets in Afghanistan.

3. of course it cant be down, anything condemning the U.S. or Israel is vetoed by Big Sam.

No, it doesn't.

4:Israel could stop blowing apart hundreds of civilians and destroying hundred upon hundreds of dwellings, factories and so forth for a start.

I never said I wanted to see Israel destroyed and that is a common diversionary tactic used by Israel and the U.S. to justify their war crimes.

1: Yes, it would be just lovely if Israel stopped killing in Lebanon.
2: By that logic no country that ever lost a war would be able to win another one.
3: The UN isn't really that much use then, is it?
4: Yes, that would be lovely, it would also be lovely if hezbolah stopped shooting rockets into Israel. Since you don't want to see Israel destroyed, do you want to see hezbolah destroyed?

 

[sparten]

Israek can't stop now. Hizb would be much stronger if they did. If the continue, its 1982 all over again.
Now thats what I call dillemma.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

Sparten,

Could you give me the TOE of the 19th Lancers? Want to check that against the authorized strength of MONUC.

This being said, MONUC is strong enough to kill any and all Congo belligerants. Only the US supported by NATO can field such a force in Lebanon. It's too far for Russia, China, India, and Pakistan to field sufficent forces to sway Israel from further military action.

 

[Bull]

We, The MUSLIM UMMAH would overcome them very soon, INSHA-A-ALLAH. At the moment Muslim, as a whole must try to build and raise their defence, reasearch and development, economy and try their best to build a defense alliance simmilar to NATO. They must also share the R & D results with muslim coutries all over the world. A shared knowldge is in the benefit of Muslims in particular and world in general

Why dont you unite into one country from Morocco to pakistan and craete united states of Arabis and then speak abt sharing the so called tech know how of making suicide bombers.

 

[Bull]

Israel is best quipped to destroy Hizbullah, so let them do it.Why bring a intl force into the equation.

 

[Arrow]

Whatever be the current situation, one thing is clear that Jews can not live in peace, untill they have peace with muslims, all over the world. Their hostilities and crimes against the muslims, world over, just shows the low level of their self confidence and fear.
We, The MUSLIM UMMAH would overcome them very soon, INSHA-A-ALLAH. At the moment Muslim, as a whole must try to build and raise their defence, reasearch and development, economy and try their best to build a defense alliance simmilar to NATO. They must also share the R & D results with muslim coutries all over the world. A shared knowldge is in the benefit of Muslims in particular and world in general.
REMEMBER: UNITY OF MUSLIMS IS THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR ISLAM AND MUSLIMS WORLDOVER. In the long run nothing else would work !!
Kashif

The same can be said of Muslims, that they cant live in peace anywhere...

 

[Arrow]

Then why are you sayiing the region sucks when it is doing better than India?

Sure killing the heck out of each other- Iraq, stoning people to death- Iran, run by a corrupt oligarchy- Egypt...

Spare India from doing so well, o' Ram, Rahim & Jesus!:p

 

[Arrow]

Israek can't stop now. Hizb would be much stronger if they did. If the continue, its 1982 all over again.
Now thats what I call dillemma.

:GUNS: :GUNS: :GUNS: