Revolution in Pakistan?

[Zyxius]

Once again we Pakistanis find ourselves in despair and our country heading towards ruin. The poor of this country are made more desperate still, and now our highly productive agricultural country faces millions of its own citizens who cannot afford to eat. Our currency is falling, our markets are faltering, our politicians have fled the scene, there is an insurgency throughout the country, terrorism in our cities, and no sign of leadership or hope anywhere.

All of us Pakistanis have either said, or heard someone close to us say that only a revolution could sort out Pakistan. We have tried democracy but the same organizations and people monopolize the process. We have tried military coups, but none of them delivered for the people and the same crooks always came back. Today we are back in the same position once again with no leadership or governance and the people in despair. Now people are crying about the situation and some are saying we need the army to take over again. So let us talk about that other option that we have all discussed in private or heard from someone we know; revolution. I'm just throwing the questions out there and I'm curious to see what people are thinking.

If ordinary people like you and me wanted to start or support a revolution in Pakistan, how should we go about it?

Is there already an organization that is supporting the right sort of revolution in Pakistan? If not, should one be created? And if so, how?

Revolutions are usually carried out with a leadership composed of ideologues and the working class, while the main body is mainly the working class and the poor who have suffered the most. Therefore, it is most likely that the revolution would have to be taken to the masses first. What are the best places in Pakistan to spread this message?

In Karachi could they be:
Korangi Industrial Area? Orangi Town? Shah Faisal Colony?

What is the best way to give these people this message?

What is the best time to give these people this message?

What kind of people should be the target audience of this Peoples Revolution?

How should people organize themselves?

What should be the ideals/central manifesto of this revolution?

Is civil disobedience enough? Should it be non-violent?

What would be the best non-violent way to carry out a revolution in Pakistan?

How should the revolutionaries ensure that they do not get picked up by intelligence agencies and disappear?

What Human rights organizations, or other organizations should they be tied to?

What is the best way to carry out a "legal" revolution?

What kind of alliances are likely to form in this revolution?

What role is the media likely to play in this revolution?

What should be done with PPP, MQM, PML-N and other parties that have repeatedly failed us? What about the leaders of these parties?

Do you think it would be possible to recruit people from the armed forces of Pakistan for this revolution?

What do you think the slogans of this revolution should be?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Why can't all of this effort be spent upon a new political party with a leadership that attracts, and a message that sells, instead of the messy business of a revolution?

In either case you have to convince people to go for 'change'.

 

[JK!]

I disagree with the notion of revolution to solve problems as I think it will cause more instability and unnecessary hardship as every Tom, Dick and Harry will fight for some power.

I prefer the approach of a strong man like Musharraf though not necessarily him who can lead with conviction for at least 20 years to carve out meaningful institutions and infrastructure.

 

[Majnun]

No, a revolution should not happen, definitely not. It would be chaos.
And, I'm guessing, Zyxius, that you would want an Islamic revolution. That would be terrible for Pakistan to become an Islamist state like Iran. All countries that have changed to become heavily Islamicized have always weakened very considerably.
Iran is the best example of this.
To have a silent revolution, like Musharraf attempted, may work, but if Pakistan is to be changed, let it be more like Turkey and less like Iran.

 

[Majnun]

I disagree with the notion of revolution to solve problems as I think it will cause more instability and unnecessary hardship as every Tom, Dick and Harry will fight for some power.

I prefer the approach of a strong man like Musharraf though not necessarily him who can lead with conviction for at least 20 years to carve out meaningful institutions and infrastructure.

Musharraf was good, but he tried to implement democracy too soon and give people all sorts of liberties they had never had before and so started misusing (best example is Geo and lawyers movement). Maybe he should have had a hard rule on the people for 10-15 years and changed everything from the grassroots up.

 

[Zyxius]

Well...I'm not suggesting that the revolution be violent, neither am I suggesting the ideology of the revolution, i.e. Islamic. I have always been a big support of Mushy boy, but feel that he's already had 8 years and we still find ourselves back in the same situation once again. I don't doubt that Mush was more sincere than PPP or PML, but he did not deliver and we cannot expect that after an 8 years stint without enough results, that this General is going to be able to pull of miracles now.

We've gave the criminal Bhutto-Zardari duo 3 chances to shaft us and the Sharif's have had two with a third on the way. Yesterday after the stock Exchange nose-dive, people were crying for Mushy to impose 58-2b again and kick zardari and these losers out.

New parties have been formed by Imran Khan, Shaikh Rasheed, and I'm sure a whole bunch of others. Unfortunately, none of our parties is actually sincere to anything...they simply have a job to keep a certain number of people busy and away from the process.

I have a feeling that a revolution is only a matter of time, since I have no faith that any of these leaders will improve the lives of the poor of this country. I dont htink that a revolution would necessarily be Chaos....Chaos is a Nawaz or zardari government.

86% of Pakistanis feel that we are headed in the wrong direction - Business Plus Tv. Prices are out of control, jobs have disintegrated, the gap between the rich and poor is almost insurmountable, our rupee is a joke, land holding in Pakistan does not allow mobility of classes, the processes are all monopolized by politicians, feudals, industrialists and the armed forces. The "People" have basically been told to 'eff' off. Any time you see an interview of the average Pakistani on the street on TV, you will see that he is furious and feels that leaders are all traitors.

A revolution could take any meaning WE assign it. It could take shape in any way we wanted. I have myself carried out experiments on directing the masses and find that all it takes is for someoen to take advantage of the right time just as a major catalyst is unfolding, i.e. a Rally for another purpose, a strike call after everyone gets to their offices and offices get shut down, on a day like yesterday when the KSE fell and investors were crying about their situation and smashing the exchange, etc. One needs either to find a catalyst, or to create one. Which catalyst one uses and how one uses it decides whether it is violent or chaotic.

 

[JK!]

Well on that analysis the people of Pakistan had such an opportunity after the Chief Justice saga but they've failed to capitalise on that event successfully.

I mentioned this in another thread but I think a dual house system like the house of lords in the UK might be a solution.

Ex high ranking officers from all of Pakistans services can sit there maybe alongside trusted religious leaders who can keep an eye on things and have the power of veto on a lower house.

 

[muse]

Dual chambers?

Majlis has Senators and Representatives/Deputies. Revolution? Insurrgency, insurrection and now revolution -

 

[Zyxius]

I think people were still hopeful when the Chief Justice issue was taking place...and secondly...that catalyst was already being exploited by the "Leaders" who do the 'keep em busy' routine. The same faces led and exploited this event as do all others. NO...this one has to be from the people...from new faces that dont come from the Feudal class, big industrialists, politicians, or big shot from the armed forces. It has to be ordinary people led by passionate ordinary people.

I wonder....would it be possible for people like us to meet and cultivate such passionate ordinary people?

 

[JK!]

That would be an enormous responsibility thrust upon an individual who might have little to no experience in such high level leadership hence why I favour ex servicemen who have an idea of that level of command at least until the people you have in mind can be trusted to lead.

 

[Zyxius]

In my view, people from the armed forces do not have the ability to lead a country, a movement, or politics of any sort. They have a very rigid way of thinking...and frankly...more of them are thick than are intelligent...and they're stuck in another century. They dont know how to work with others and compromise, and they certainly dont know how to handle shades of gray. I would definitely not accept someone from the armed forces...except as a junior or as an underling.

 

[JK!]

That maybe but I can't see anyone else in Pakistani society as having such an ability.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

We've gave the criminal Bhutto-Zardari duo 3 chances to shaft us and the Sharif's have had two with a third on the way. Yesterday after the stock Exchange nose-dive, people were crying for Mushy to impose 58-2b again and kick zardari and these losers out.

I disagree with that on some points.

We gave them the chances, but they were never given the continuity to get the ball rolling. I think what one has to realize is that change is not going to come overnight, especially in a democratic system with a coalition government.

Its been barely six months, and a government challenged with the hangover of last years violence, the current insurgent threat in FATA and spiking global commodities prices cannot be expected to work miracles.

Chances we gave -to govern, but we never gave them the chance to govern for their full terms. As much as I distrust Zardari and Nawaz (especially), I think that good or bad this government needs top complete its term, and have a proper transition through elections to the next government.

A 'revolution' isn't going to solve peoples problems, getting Pakistanis to realize that they have to participate in the electoral process and elect those who have a vision and plans to improve the country is what is needed.

If there needs to be a movement, it needs to be one that educates our voters about the choices they have, about what those in the past have done (good and bad).

A movement that tries to help Pakistanis understand what their interests are and how those interests can be best achieved.

The change we need shouldn't be about empowering another set of 'visionary leaders', it should be about empowering Pakistanis, so that they are better able to make the choices they need.

The system should stay, the leaders should stay, what is needed is the next four and a half years be spent educating and empowering Pakistanis to start making the right choices.

 

[x_man]

ZYXIUZ

I do not share your optimistic tone and not sure that what kind of a revolution you are looking for and in the end of your percieved revololution , what will happen ? If a revolution ever takes place, it will only bring more miseries for masses , deepened chaos and in the end of the whole mess , only a small opportunist group will benifit from it.....they will sit on our heads and same situation will repeat....Net result....ZERO....

With the lack of an independent judiciary in the state, justice has become something which is not achievable for a comman man in the streets. This is the single most important factor which is making the lives of millions miserable. People simply have no rights. Its only the chosen few landlords/ industrialists/ ex army men who are the elite owners of the power corridors and every law can be bend to suit their needs.........We dont need an Inqilab, we just need a one sincere leader who has a acumen and salt to get us of this mess....and I dont think that a common Pakistani would mind if that person has Miltary or Civilian background...

 

[Zyxius]

I disagree with that on some points.

We gave them the chances, but they were never given the continuity to get the ball rolling. I think what one has to realize is that change is not going to come overnight, especially in a democratic system with a coalition government.

Its been barely six months, and a government challenged with the hangover of last years violence, the current insurgent threat in FATA and spiking global commodities prices cannot be expected to work miracles.

Chances we gave -to govern, but we never gave them the chance to govern for their full terms. As much as I distrust Zardari and Nawaz (especially), I think that good or bad this government needs top complete its term, and have a proper transition through elections to the next government.

A 'revolution' isn't going to solve peoples problems, getting Pakistanis to realize that they have to participate in the electoral process and elect those who have a vision and plans to improve the country is what is needed.

If there needs to be a movement, it needs to be one that educates our voters about the choices they have, about what those in the past have done (good and bad).

A movement that tries to help Pakistanis understand what their interests are and how those interests can be best achieved.

The change we need shouldn't be about empowering another set of 'visionary leaders', it should be about empowering Pakistanis, so that they are better able to make the choices they need.

The system should stay, the leaders should stay, what is needed is the next four and a half years be spent educating and empowering Pakistanis to start making the right choices.

I dont think that Prime Ministers and Presidents get to argue that "I wanted to but they didnt let me". That's not an excuse that leaders get to make in my opinion. She would not have been in that position if she had not compromised herself in every which way through her notorious husband...Mr 10% whom I know firsthand was involved in massive corruption during her terms.

The thing is not that they have not had enough time...you can see that people have had enough...and let's be honest...we all know that Zardari will screw it up for sure within 18 months. In fact.....I know for a fact that he said to Iqbal Memon and other front-men of his that "we have 18 months to do whatever the hell we want and then its over"....so even he knows that this is the case. Its only a matter of time before this government comes crashing down and even he has that prediction...which is why he's always going to keep a ticket to Dubai on hand.

Let's not come with preconceived notions about what a revolution is and should be. It could very well be a movement to get more people to vote and while concurrently giving them a better option to vote for. It could be a series of non-violent protests to capture attention and fight for some emotionally charged cause that helps the movement gain momentum. It could be virtually anything that changes the status quo in which the process is totally monopolized.