Request For Information released for 5 IN Fleet Replenishment tankers

[Abingdonboy]

http://tenders.gov.in/viewtenddoc.asp?tid=del559005&wno=1&td=TD
@sancho I think you can give some key info on the contenders.

 

[arp2041]

@Abingdonboy 5???

where did this came from??

was the deal always in the pipeline, am i missing something here??

Anyways, I think Italian Fincantieri's made Deepak class Fleet tankers stand a good chance, as they have emerged as the L1 earlier also & they delivered two fleet tankers to IN in record 3 years time from the date of signing.

 

[Abingdonboy]

@Abingdonboy 5???

where did this came from??

was the deal always in the pipeline, am i missing something here??

Anyways, I think Italian Fincantieri's made Deepak class Fleet tankers stand a good chance, as they have emerged as the L1 earlier also & they delivered two fleet tankers to IN in record 3 years time from the date of signing.

What do you mean where did it come from? Straigt form the desks of the IN long terms planners! lol!


I get what you mean though, it is a but out of the blue (although I have been hearing about this deal for some time).

And I think the IN is after ships larger than the Deepak class in this instance.



Like I said @sancho will be a good source of info for the contenders in this case.

 

[arp2041]

@Abingdonboy Yes you are Right.

RFI says 40k tonnes, while the Deepak class were 27k tonnes only.

IN's future looks great, now there tonnage is making new records with each new ship.

 

[sancho]

http://tenders.gov.in/viewtenddoc.asp?tid=del559005&wno=1&td=TD
@<u><a href="http://www.defence.pk/forums/member.php?u=13746" target="_blank">sancho</a></u> I think you can give some key info on the contenders.

Interesting, it's not "just" another tanker that they want like the Deepak Class, but finally a joint support ship, that also can transport water, ammo, spares or food, for Carrier Battle Groups, or subs in blue water operations. With these specs, the first that comes in my mind is the Brave Class from DCNS:

Brave® | DCNS


Futher infos and specs:

BRAVE class replenishment and support ship AOR fleet oiler AOE Fast Combat Support Ship Batiment RAvitailleur d


Another option:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/30327-indian-navy-news-discussions-134.html#post3631615

@Abingdonboy Yes you are Right.

RFI says 40k tonnes, while the Deepak class were 27k tonnes only.

IN's future looks great, now there tonnage is making new records with each new ship.

40k including a full load, not for the ship alone!

 

[Abingdonboy]

Another option:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/30327-indian-navy-news-discussions-134.html#post3631615

I knew you were the right guy to go to @sancho!


Wrt your other option, surely this is only really relevant for navies looking to cut costs with less vessels (and associated overheads) so combine 2/3 ships in a single platform. But for the likes of the IN, which is expanding at an impressive rate without such limitations, that have now drawn a line in the sand and asked specifically for 5 Joint Support Ships (entirely separate to the LHD/LPD it intends to procure) the Multo-role support vessel is not all that nessercary for them?

 

[Capt.Popeye]

@Abingdonboy;
I guess first off the blocks will be Fincantieri, since the existing 27k design is very easily modifiable upto 40k and other specs seem similar to the Deepak Class. Then German builders like Bremer Vulkan are also possible since they have experience in this field too whether it is hull, propulsion etc.
The RAS handling eqpt will be third-party in nearly all cases.
But we have to watch for Korean yards; since in generic ship-building terms they can provide the optimal mix of quality and cost. Though I'm not sure if they have tendered for similar ships before, but that is no impediment; since design consultancy is available from specialist ship-design firms.
An outside chance is a JV between a local pvt yard like Pipavav and some foreign yard. But that will really be an outside chance.

 

[Abingdonboy]

@Abingdonboy;
I guess first off the blocks will be Fincantieri, since the existing 27k design is very easily modifiable upto 40k and other specs seem similar to the Deepak Class. Then German builders like Bremer Vulkan are also possible since they have experience in this field too whether it is hull, propulsion etc.
The RAS handling eqpt will be third-party in nearly all cases.
But we have to watch for Korean yards; since in generic ship-building terms they can provide the optimal mix of quality and cost. Though I'm not sure if they have tendered for similar ships before, but that is no impediment; since design consultancy is available from specialist ship-design firms.
An outside chance is a JV between a local pvt yard like Pipavav and some foreign yard. But that will really be an outside chance.

I agree with @sancho that the Brave class from DCNS looks like an ideal candidate right out of the gate. Given the Indian shipyard tie ups with DCNS, this surely hands an advantage to DCNS in this competition.

 

[sancho]

I knew you were the right guy to go to @sancho!


Wrt your other option, surely this is only really relevant for navies looking to cut costs with less vessels (and associated overheads) so combine 2/3 ships in a single platform. But for the likes of the IN, which is expanding at an impressive rate without such limitations, that have now drawn a line in the sand and asked specifically for 5 Joint Support Ships (entirely separate to the LHD/LPD it intends to procure) the Multo-role support vessel is not all that nessercary for them?

As I told you earlier, imo it makes no sense for IN to go for dedicated LDPs anymore, that are next to useless unless a war or a disaster happens. To be more cost-effective and capable they should go for 2 x LHDs and increse the number of JSS instead, if necessary with a well deck. The Brave class lacks the welldeck, but you can simply modify the Mistral calls too, or choose the Enforcer class as a basline designe for both, LHDs and JSSs.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Interesting, it's not "just" another tanker that they want like the Deepak Class, but finally a joint support ship, that also can transport water, ammo, spares or food, for Carrier Battle Groups, or subs in blue water operations. With these specs, the first that comes in my mind is the Brave Class from DCNS:
40k including a full load, not for the ship alone!

@sancho;
All existing Fleet Rep Tankers are not only tankers, though historically they have been known as Fleet Oilers/Fleet Tankers. Right from the old INS Deepak/Shakti of 1950s/60s through INS Aditya/Jyoti to the present Fincantieri ships, they have had capacity to carry additional supplies and stores including Ammo and Victuals (Vittles) to replenish Fleet ships. While liquids are transferred through hoses, the solids were transferred earlier by 'Jackstay' and later increasingly by 'Vertrep' Helos. So there is nothing new that is being talked about here.
Another thing to note is that the Fleet Oilers also have additional Sick-Bay accommodation, augmented Medical Facilities as well as Medical Staff to attend to casualties.
Lastly, there are some Merchant Ships like the 'C.V.Raman' class of tankers in the SCI fleet that can perform STS (Ship-to-Ship) transfers even when underway; albeit without RAS Gantries and at very slow speed. The are part of the STUFT Fleet that IN can requistion if required.

I agree with @sancho that the Brave class from DCNS looks like an ideal candidate right out of the gate. Given the Indian shipyard tie ups with DCNS, this surely hands an advantage to DCNS in this competition.

I will not put it down as simply as that. Many factors are involved, the most important being cost-----the magic"L1" factor!

 

[Abingdonboy]

As I told you earlier, imo it makes no sense for IN to go for dedicated LDPs anymore, that are next to useless unless a war or a disaster happens. To be more cost-effective and capable they should go for 2 x LHDs and increse the number of JSS instead, if necessary with a well deck. The Brave class lacks the welldeck, but you can simply modify the Mistral calls too, or choose the Enforcer class as a basline designe for both, LHDs and JSSs.

I understand this is your preference @sancho. But the fact is the IN has quite clearly gone in for two separate procurements, one for 4-6 LHD/LPD and another for 5 JSS. With the IN raising their own Marine infantry unit (numbering 15-25,000) it can make sense to have at least 4 dedicated LHD/LPD so these Marines can operate from them to exercise and operate.


We don't always get what we want, do we? And I'm sure the IN knows what it is doing and are working to a vision.

 

[sancho]

@sancho;
All existing Fleet Rep Tankers are not only tankers, though historically they have been known as Fleet Oilers/Fleet Tankers.

Not only, but mainly! Compared to JSS, they are much more limited in their roles and capabilities, which is why these kind of Tankers are not up to date anymore. It's simply a huge advantage when you can use a vessel not only in a single supporting role, but also alone in disaster relief as well. With INs array of operations getting bigger and bigger, having a licence production line of a capable multi role JSS in India would be highly useful!

Btw guys, did you noted that the RFI requires dedicated ASW capability? Possibly for self defence, but still interesting that they will have torpedos.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Not only, but mainly! Compared to JSS, they are much more limited in their roles and capabilities, which is why these kind of Tankers are not up to date anymore. It's simply a huge advantage when you can use a vessel not only in a single supporting role, but also alone in disaster relief as well. With INs array of operations getting bigger and bigger, having a licence production line of a capable multi role JSS in India would be highly useful!

Btw guys, did you noted that the RFI requires dedicated ASW capability? Possibly for self defence, but still interesting that they will have torpedos.

Sancho, all tankers have been Supply Ships but carrying mainly POL; because that is the thing that gets consumed most and requires most replenishment. In that respect this class of ships being considered will be no different from any of it predecessors.
This tender specs seems to be a mirror of the Fincantieri Tankers save for larger size.

 

[black_jack]

Why 5 more fleet tankers ? I guess navy planning to operate more than 2 CBG's

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Why 5 more fleet tankers ? I guess navy planning to operate more than 2 CBG's

It does not necessarily translate into that. Every Task Force on 'extended deployment' will need resupply and replenishment. Even a Destroyer or Frigate squadron with escort ships. Rather it points towards "Blue Water" requirements, where Naval Assets will be able to perform tasks far away from home bases.