RFIs released by IN for LGBs,airborne laser designators & manportable laser

[sancho]

It isn't for the good of the world or for humanitarian missions. Through its military power the US is able to secure certain resources and protect its interests abroad.

But as I said, not every country will do with by military force like the US does, India has a record of joining hands with other countries through foreign policy. Look at the oil supply from Iran that we get, ALTHOUGH the US and the west posed sanction on them and ALTHOUGH the issues of Iran and Israel. We actually showed the US how it should be done here and the same happens in other areas too. Similarly, China is clearly one of the current Superpowers and still don't operate military bases all over the world right? On the other hand, they use their economical success to get friendly with other countries and get certain recourses. That's why they are way more successful in Africa and S. America, the the US are and the recent reports about China ready to provide African countries huge loans will only increase the shift towards China of these countries.
So only because the US does it, is no argument for India to do it the same, infact we have not only our own, but also better ways to handle things!

However, back to topic, do you have some infos on Russians latest LGBs?

 

[danish_vij]

thats a great news...but i don't know whts there real use for IN???

 

[Abingdonboy]

But as I said, not every country will do with by military force like the US does, India has a record of joining hands with other countries through foreign policy. Look at the oil supply from Iran that we get, ALTHOUGH the US and the west posed sanction on them and ALTHOUGH the issues of Iran and Israel. We actually showed the US how it should be done here and the same happens in other areas too. Similarly, China is clearly one of the current Superpowers and still don't operate military bases all over the world right? On the other hand, they use their economical success to get friendly with other countries and get certain recourses. That's why they are way more successful in Africa and S. America, the the US are and the recent reports about China ready to provide African countries huge loans will only increase the shift towards China of these countries.
So only because the US does it, is no argument for India to do it the same, infact we have not only our own, but also better ways to handle things!

Yes I agree, India's approach in the future will be uniquely Indian. All I am saying is it doesn't hurt to have military might to back up your diplomatic talk, a velvet glove covering an iron fist approach if you will.

However, back to topic, do you have some infos on Russians latest LGBs?

Have you seen this, released a few weeks back:



Soviet/Russian Guided Bombs


Pretty comprehensive.



Also @sancho did you notice the IN were open to glide-kits on the LGBs?

thats a great news...but i don't know whts there real use for IN???

What other use than pounding ground targets with accuracy?

 

[sancho]

Have you seen this, released a few weeks back:

Yes I know it, but the infos on KAB-250L for example are pretty old and all integration tests on the Mig 29 UPG and Ks didn't mentioned them at all, only KAB 500s with TV guidance.

Also @sancho did you notice the IN were open to glide-kits on the LGBs?

Yes, but not that surprising, since extended launch range should be important for IN. In theory the new Laser AASM would fit the requirements as well, but I somehow doubt that IN will pay so much for the weapon and the integration. Sudarshan and the Israeli SPICE kits seems to be the most logical choices.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Yes I know it, but the infos on KAB-250L for example are pretty old and all integration tests on the Mig 29 UPG and Ks didn't mentioned them at all, only KAB 500s with TV guidance.

Yes I had noticed this also. But I don't have any other info more recent than you likely have in your possession.

Yes, but not that surprising, since extended launch range should be important for IN. In theory the new Laser AASM would fit the requirements as well, but I somehow doubt that IN will pay so much for the weapon and the integration. Sudarshan and the Israeli SPICE kits seems to be the most logical choices.

Yes @sancho this was another point I was unsure of. The RFI clearly states the LGB/LDP must be certified on the MIG-29K (obvious request) but will it be the IN forking out for this? And will the LGB/LDP OEMs now be running to the K's (Mikoyan) to obtain this certification or can the IN and India's aviation safety agency clear the integration run on IN K's? I'm assuming it's the former.


And if so, the Sudarshan-SPICE is on the cards this could get very complicated, you'd have to have the DRDO/ADE, Rafael, Mikoyan and the IN involved in the certification, integration and testing of this system. Has the DRDO/ADE shown any interest to date in intergrateing the Sudarshan with the SPICE guidance kit?

 

[sancho]

Has the DRDO/ADE shown any interest to date in intergrateing the Sudarshan with the SPICE guidance kit?

I am not talking about Sudarshan with SPICE kits, but both competing eachother, since there is already a range extended version of Sudarshan under development with wings and according to some reports from Aero India with a range around 50Km. The SPICE or AASM kits, offer higher range and were recently evaluated for the Mirage 2000 upgrade as well, but possibly only in the 2000lb class, with SPICE as the winner. So it might be added to the Mig as well, with Sudharshans in the long run.
But the weapon pack of the Mig 29K gets more and more interesing!

Kh 29 for CAS
Kh 31 for SEAD
Kh 35 for anti ship
ER LGBs for stand off strikes
Brahmos light for cruise missile strikes

 

[Abingdonboy]

I am not talking about Sudarshan with SPICE kits, but both competing eachother, since there is already a range extended version of Sudarshan under development with wings and according to some reports from Aero India with a range around 50Km. The SPICE or AASM kits, offer higher range and were recently evaluated for the Mirage 2000 upgrade as well, but possibly only in the 2000lb class, with SPICE as the winner. So it might be added to the Mig as well, with Sudharshans in the long run.
But the weapon pack of the Mig 29K gets more and more interesing!

Kh 29 for CAS
Kh 31 for SEAD
Kh 35 for anti ship
ER LGBs for stand off strikes
Brahmos light for cruise missile strikes

Hmm I had missed the news about an ER version of the Sudarshan, this is quite significant is it not? I'm surprised it hasn't received more attention.


And yes I was just thinking the MIG-29K (but actually most Indian fighters if you have a look at them and plans for the future) are going to get VERY exotic, diverse and interesting weapon suites, unique to India for sure!



Also do you not think the IAF should be working closely with the IN wrt their MIG-29UPGs as the UPGs are incredibly similar to the Ks, and while the IN is "tricking-out" their Ks, the IAF is standing still (in some ways) with their UPGs. There's scope, is there not, for the UPGs and Ks to be given the same weapons and orders so as to cut down costs and time delays (as the UPG orders can be "tagged-on" to orders for the Ks"?


Or is this a case of the IN trying to simply break away from all other wings and build their own, fully-fledged air force?

 

[sancho]

Hmm I had missed the news about an ER version of the Sudarshan, this is quite significant is it not? I'm surprised it hasn't received more attention.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...shan-lgbs-ade-scientists-get.html#post3942690

Also do you not think the IAF should be working closely with the IN wrt their MIG-29UPGs as the UPGs are incredibly similar to the Ks, and while the IN is "tricking-out" their Ks, the IAF is standing still (in some ways) with their UPGs. There's scope, is there not, for the UPGs and Ks to be given the same weapons and orders so as to cut down costs and time delays (as the UPG orders can be "tagged-on" to orders for the Ks"?

From the weapon integrations we have seen, both will have both will have R77 and Kh 35, I also think that the UPG will use KAB 500 and Kh 29 possibly, but I doubt that it would be used for SEAD or stand off strikes, simply because IAF has more useful plattforms for it. IN on the other side will have space limitations and theirfor must get their Migs as capable as possible, one reason why I prefer more Migs than low capable N-LCAs.

 

[Abingdonboy]

From the weapon integrations we have seen, both will have both will have R77 and Kh 35, I also think that the UPG will use KAB 500 and Kh 29 possibly, but I doubt that it would be used for SEAD or stand off strikes, simply because IAF has more useful plattforms for it. IN on the other side will have space limitations and theirfor must get their Migs as capable as possible, one reason why I prefer more Migs than low capable N-LCAs.

Yes I was thinking this, there's no point in the IAF going to all this expense for their 2nd rate (sounds unfair but is true) a/c that haven't got much more than 15-20 years of life in them. IN has far newer MIGs and they are their mainstay for the foreseeable future. I guess though, this is another reason to just give the IN the UPGs for shore-based defence, I know you have suggested this in the past @sancho.

 

[JayAtl]

Because Indias threats will always be next door, while the US threats will always be 1000s of Km away, that's why they have to project power with their navy big times, while India will use the navy mainly in defensive roles, alongside their costlines.
Just as well as India won't join the US in their world police roles, since Indian foreing policy is not based on military and that's good!

I think you are looking at India from a regional "economic power" perspective and not global. The military always prepares to protect the countries assets - and since we live in a global economy, India's economy will have several important assets all over the world in future-hence it needs to and will be drawn up as one that takes " global" reach into account.

Look at what is happening on SCS, OIL excavations and Vietnam as a tiny example of the future.

 

[sancho]

I think you are looking at India from a regional "economic power" perspective and not global. The military always prepares to protect the countries assets - and since we live in a global economy, India's economy will have several important assets all over the world in future-hence it needs to and will be drawn up as one that takes " global" reach into account.

Look at what is happening on SCS, OIL excavations and Vietnam as a tiny example of the future.

Of course, but that again is definding Indian interests, not playing a global police as a Superpower. Moreover, the strategic location of Indian and the potential growth of Asia in the coming years makes our areas of interest limited to the Indian Ocean area and partially to Eastern Asia, so no difference from today anyway. We won't send a CBG to the Atlantic for any reason, since there is nothing to gain.
That is the difference for the US for example, they have no enemies around them, but a lot of interests all over the world, mainly the Gulf region to control the oil supply. That's why they need so many carriers and troops in this area, just like they needed many troops in Europe in the past, to keep the Russians in check, or in Eastern Asia to keep the Chinese in check.
That is not the case for India, since we share massive land borders with the most likely enemies and since our location is pretty much in the middle of all important economic or resource areas, be it towards the Gulf countries, towards Africa, or towards Eastern Asia.

 

[MilSpec]

Hmm I had missed the news about an ER version of the Sudarshan, this is quite significant is it not? I'm surprised it hasn't received more attention.


And yes I was just thinking the MIG-29K (but actually most Indian fighters if you have a look at them and plans for the future) are going to get VERY exotic, diverse and interesting weapon suites, unique to India for sure!



Also do you not think the IAF should be working closely with the IN wrt their MIG-29UPGs as the UPGs are incredibly similar to the Ks, and while the IN is "tricking-out" their Ks, the IAF is standing still (in some ways) with their UPGs. There's scope, is there not, for the UPGs and Ks to be given the same weapons and orders so as to cut down costs and time delays (as the UPG orders can be "tagged-on" to orders for the Ks"?


Or is this a case of the IN trying to simply break away from all other wings and build their own, fully-fledged air force?

Mig 29's of IAF are primary Air superiority fighters, UPG is bringing them additional multirole dimension, But the Mig 29 pilots of IAF are the chosen ones. These are the best pilots of IAF, and their primary job is clip wings of the enemies. Although Mig 29's are getting multirole features, I dont think they will be utilized as multirole aircrafts anytime soon. They will have the option to undertake a multirole mission if they want to.