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Replacing the F-16: Will Pakistan’s Top Fighter Squadron Transition to Chinese J-10Cs?

So in your thoughts I don't have an option to keep my own thoughts and believe what I want to believe... Get some life...

Not a fan of anyone but everyone should've a right of expression on an open forum... Hopefully you living out in an independent country should understand this unless you've some agenda...

Go ahead and ban him I don't care but you can't dictate what someone says on an open forum just because you can't comprehend...


Indeed I'm living in a free country where everyone can express his or her views but why shouldn't false views and ideas as well as faked information be corrected and named as what it is?

Again, I have no problem if anyone wants to express his view which could easily be different to mine, but that does not mean it is correct. Claiming the JF-17 Block would use an Italian engine, could use AMRAAM or these constant wishes of "we get J-11, J-16, J-16 and J-20" and "the Block 3 should use PL-XX" are an as unrealistic wish or opinion like my son's wish "hey dad, we should get a BMW X6 for the family and I think best would be a Lamborghini Sián".
Yes, these are wishes and he surely can express them, but a wish is just a wish and I cannot afford or there are other reasons against this wish and for most of these wishes expressed here simple logic is against them.

As such on the one side you demand free speech and feel oppressed by my constant "negative connotations" but in the same post you demand I "should be banned"?! So is the right for free speech is only for you or as long as it fits your opinion of "positive connotations" regardless how stupid or impossible it is??

If yes, then you should probably change the forum to the "what if section"!
 
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Indeed I'm living in a free country where everyone can express his or her views but why shouldn't false views and ideas as well as faked information be corrected and named as what it is?

Again, I have no problem if anyone wants to express his view which could easily be different to mine, but that does not mean it is correct. Claiming the JF-17 Block would use an Italian engine, could use AMRAAM or these constant wishes of "we get J-11, J-16, J-16 and J-20" and "the Block 3 should use PL-XX" are an as unrealistic wish or opinion like my son's wish "hey dad, we should get a BMW X6 for the family and I think best would be a Lamborghini Sián".
Yes, these are wishes and he surely can express them, but a wish is just a wish and I cannot afford or there are other reasons against this wish and for most of these wishes expressed here simple logic is against them.

As such on the one side you demand free speech and feel oppressed by my constant "negative connotations" but in the same post you demand I "should be banned"?! So is the right for free speech is only for you or as long as it fits your opinion of "positive connotations" regardless how stupid or impossible it is??

If yes, then you should probably change the forum to the "what if section"!
Covfefe
 
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Indeed I'm living in a free country where everyone can express his or her views but why shouldn't false views and ideas as well as faked information be corrected and named as what it is?

Again, I have no problem if anyone wants to express his view which could easily be different to mine, but that does not mean it is correct. Claiming the JF-17 Block would use an Italian engine, could use AMRAAM or these constant wishes of "we get J-11, J-16, J-16 and J-20" and "the Block 3 should use PL-XX" are an as unrealistic wish or opinion like my son's wish "hey dad, we should get a BMW X6 for the family and I think best would be a Lamborghini Sián".
Yes, these are wishes and he surely can express them, but a wish is just a wish and I cannot afford or there are other reasons against this wish and for most of these wishes expressed here simple logic is against them.

As such on the one side you demand free speech and feel oppressed by my constant "negative connotations" but in the same post you demand I "should be banned"?! So is the right for free speech is only for you or as long as it fits your opinion of "positive connotations" regardless how stupid or impossible it is??

If yes, then you should probably change the forum to the "what if section"!

Son,

Just understand this---I am the member who suggested 3 major items for Pak navy 7 + years before anyone dreamt of it in Pak navy---. Those are the JH7A's---Type 054's and chinese subs---.

The type 054's are about to be integrated---the chinese subs are coming pretty soon----2 out of 3 major major weapons systems that I had proposed have been and about to be in service.

So---if you cast aside your stupidity and start to think for a moment---you might begin to understand that maybe I may have more information, may have more input in the procurement of some systems that you could ever imagine.

Baby boy---just remember---you are on a defense forum not a 'truth forum'.
 
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Son,

Just understand this---I am the member who suggested 3 major items for Pak navy 7 + years before anyone dreamt of it in Pak navy---. Those are the JH7A's---Type 054's and chinese subs---.

The type 054's are about to be integrated---the chinese subs are coming pretty soon----2 out of 3 major major weapons systems that I had proposed have been and about to be in service.

So---if you cast aside your stupidity and start to think for a moment---you might begin to understand that maybe I may have more information, may have more input in the procurement of some systems that you could ever imagine.

Baby boy---just remember---you are on a defense forum not a 'truth forum'.


Oh man ... I never denied that you "may have more information, may have more input in the procurement of some systems that you could ever imagine", I only claimed the most extraordinary wishes like "we get the Liaoning, J-15s, J-16s, J-20s and 055 DDGs" are out of range. So yes, a Type 054 or small subs was never on the agenda. For the JH-7A I still have a different opinion due to reasons that you don't accept, but so what ...

My biggest concern is simply your attitude of arrogance against anyone and especially foreigners regardless what they post. You are twisting words, misread anything to fit your bias and your admittance that you like spreading lies to fool stupid foreigners like me is in fact a "no go" for a forum. But anyway. life goes on regardless what you want to put in my words even if I never said so.
 
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Oh man ... I never denied that you "may have more information, may have more input in the procurement of some systems that you could ever imagine", I only claimed the most extraordinary wishes like "we get the Liaoning, J-15s, J-16s, J-20s and 055 DDGs" are out of range. So yes, a Type 054 or small subs was never on the agenda. For the JH-7A I still have a different opinion due to reasons that you don't accept, but so what ...

My biggest concern is simply your attitude of arrogance against anyone and especially foreigners regardless what they post. You are twisting words, misread anything to fit your bias and your admittance that you like spreading lies to fool stupid foreigners like me is in fact a "no go" for a forum. But anyway. life goes on regardless what you want to put in my words even if I never said so.
You’ve been on this forum long enough to know when it’s time to start ignoring, some People here are far too idealistic to care for realities, they are like children who can’t have their “authority” challenged or don’t want to be told that Pakistan cannot get a certain thing simply because its “unrealistic.”
they will call you out simply because you told them the truth of their far-fetched dreams. Try not to waste your time.

To the others who simply don’t get what Deino is saying, he never made a comment regarding what Pakistan is getting or not getting nor is he challenging any of your “all-knowing” sources, he’s simply pointing out that some members are claiming unrealistic things in this thread, which is correct, so stop behaving like babies, it’s derailing the thread.
 
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@ilion1234 and Deino

Guys the hard reality is very difficult for members to digest .....
people no the truth inside but can't speak the truth
that being a modest country with terrible financial constraints will.always be limited on what can be achieved
pakistan is now even behind Bangladesh in gdp per capita and forex
things like type 55 destroyers j15 j16 j20 are far fetched dreams that will.not happen ever no matter how much you praise China...

demand bans is childish and wreaks complex and angst

thank God your 2 bring reality to the table
 
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@ilion1234 and Deino

Guys the hard reality is very difficult for members to digest .....
people no the truth inside but can't speak the truth
that being a modest country with terrible financial constraints will.always be limited on what can be achieved
pakistan is now even behind Bangladesh in gdp per capita and forex
things like type 55 destroyers j15 j16 j20 are far fetched dreams that will.not happen ever no matter how much you praise China...

demand bans is childish and wreaks complex and angst

thank God your 2 bring reality to the table

conspirators are always sitting at the door looking for something to take advantage of. why don't you go open the door for the milk man ringing bell at the door.
 
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@ilion1234 and Deino

Guys the hard reality is very difficult for members to digest .....
people no the truth inside but can't speak the truth
that being a modest country with terrible financial constraints will.always be limited on what can be achieved
pakistan is now even behind Bangladesh in gdp per capita and forex
things like type 55 destroyers j15 j16 j20 are far fetched dreams that will.not happen ever no matter how much you praise China...

demand bans is childish and wreaks complex and angst

thank God your 2 bring reality to the table

I really don’t know why mods keep unbanning you. You bring nothing but useless comments to this forum in every thread you join.

All you do is bash Pakistan and China every single time you find the opportunity, you love to make up stories about Pakistan and Chinas downfalls and how India is so mighty and has overtaken both.
Pakistan has enough money to buy what it needs. I call out unrealistic people on our side but I will also call out trolls, You’re just as unrealistic about india as these guys are about Pakistan. I also call out the payed Chinese bots this forum is infested with the same way as well.
You have trouble digesting everything and anything Pakistan does, go compare yourself to Bangladesh. You barely know the first thing about defense and economics.

You’re also nothing like Deino. He actually knows what he’s saying and doesn’t live on this forum for the sole reason of bashing other countries because he has an inferiority complex.
 
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Replacing the F-16: Will Pakistan’s Top Fighter Squadron Transition to Chinese J-10Cs?

June-22nd-2021




Chinese J-10C with PL-10 and PL-15 Missiles

The Pakistani Air Force’s combat jet acquisitions for over a decade have centred around the JF-17 Thunder fighter program, which has been pursued jointly with China and has seen the country acquire fighters both from Chinese production lines and from those located in Pakistan itself. Before the JF-17, Pakistan’s Air Force was comprised primarily of ‘very light’ third generation fighters and attack jets such as the J-7, Mirage III, Mirage 5 and Q-5, with a single elite squadron comprised of slightly heavier but still lightweight fourth generation F-16A/B Fighting Falcons. While the JF-17 has allowed Pakistan to replace the pre-fourth generation jets in its fleet with a ‘very light’ fourth generation fighter, which although in many ways more sophisticated than the F-16 has a much smaller engine and much lower operational cost, the JF-17 is not expected to replace the F-16 itself in service. Pakistan’s F-16 fleet is fast ageing, however, with the large majority comprised of F-16A/B fighters acquired in the early 1980s. This old F-16 variant has been retired by the majority of countries, with Egypt and Israel recently retiring their fleets, and only Taiwan and Venezuela expected to continue using them due to an inability to procure replacements.


article_60d0830e18bf78_86797207.jpeg

Pakistani Air Force F-16 Leads Mirage III and JF-17

Pakistan was the third country in the world to field the F-16 after the United States and Israel, and has upgraded the fighters over time including integrating modern AIM-120C air to air missiles onto them. A number of factors such as metal fatigue, however, mean that operational costs will only continue to rise and there will be growing pressure to retire the aircraft in favour of a more modern fighter - likely a lightweight or medium weight aircraft which will be larger and more capable than the JF-17. When Pakistan does so it will likely replace the jets with a non-American fighter class, as the U.S. is highly unlikely to offer a more capable aircraft such as the F-18E or F-35A. Although some unverified reports have indicated that Pakistan could consider purchasing MiG-35 fighters from Russia, this is unlikely due to Russia’s close defence ties with India, and the fact that India already operates MiG-29UPG jets which are in many ways similar, albeit much less capable, than the MiG-35. As such the most likely options are either that Pakistan will wait until its fifth generation Project AZM program being pursued with China can produce fighters, or that it will purchase Chinese J-10C fighter jets. The J-10C has notably been deployed to Pakistan in the past for joint training exercises, and reportedly made a very strong impression due to its advanced capabilities.


article_60d0839be44691_92499031.jpeg

Chinese J-10C Fighter

The J-10C entered service from 2018, and like the F-16 it is a single engine lightweight fighter. Having been designed several decades after the F-16, the J-10 is a much more advanced design boasting advantages in almost all parameters, including a higher speed, lower radar cross section and much greater manoeuvrability. The J-10C is the latest and most capable J-10 variant, and uses thrust vectoring engines for enhanced manoeuvrability - something no Western fighter other than the F-22 does. It benefits from stealth coatings for improved survivability. The aircraft uses a modern AESA radar paired with some of the world’s most capable air to air missiles, the PL-15 and PL-10, the former which is one of just two in the world confirmed to use an AESA radar for guidance. These missiles will also be deployed by upcoming improved variants of the JF-17.


article_60d105bbb23601_14543595.jpeg

J-10C Equipped for Air Defence Suppression with YJ-91 and PL-10 Missiles

The J-10C would provide Pakistan with by far the most capable combat jet in its fleet, and benefits from a much lower operational cost and lower maintenance needs than the ageing F-16A airframes. Its access to YJ-91 cruise missiles provides much a much more dangerous air to ground capability than any Pakistani fighter. With the J-10C having reportedly proven capable of outperforming heavyweight Russian jets from the Flanker family, due largely to its more advanced radar and missiles, the Chinese-built fighter would provide an effective means of countering India’s most dangerous fighter class the Su-30MKI. A Pakistani J-10C purchase remains by far the most likely option should the country look to acquire new combat jets other than the JF-17, with China potentially providing the aircraft on highly favorable terms due to the close strategic partnership between the two countries. At least until the F-35 moves beyond its current very limited initial operating capability to eventually become fully operational, the J-10C will be considered the world’s most capable single engine fighter in overall performance.

Replacing the F-16: Will Pakistan’s Top Fighter Squadron Transition to Chinese J-10Cs? (militarywatchmagazine.com)

You must have the wrong information Zarvan. According to fanboys and khafee on an online forum, PAF has already secretly got F-16s Block 70/72. And there are about 200 of these F-16s parked somewhere in Bholari Airbase, Shabaz Air Force Base. These F-16s are flying in as we speak !!!! :lol:
 
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Despite what people say M3/5 & F7's have no place in a modern air force. Do people even bother thinking how these antique aircrafts show up on radar? I'm sorry but a/c's older than me need to be replaced ASAP

As to your query, CAS are on record for saying "we will maintain first shoot capability", all I can say is that Blk52 is not what they had in mind.
Finally someone agreeing with me. Yes please for GOD sake retire Mirages and F-7. They are way old. Secondly we need a jet which can do BVR fights but also we also need a jet which carries out strikes deep into Indian territory like hitting Mumbai and Bengaluru and Goa and other cities in India.
Replacement aircraft is no where in sight. Reason is Mirage 3/5 / F4/ F5 are of the same era and same role GROUND ATTACK. Turkey wanted to replace F-4's with F-35 as their Stealth would make them an ideal SEAD platform.

Looking at the next 10-15 years almost all important sites would be under air defence systems that would have ESAR radars which can not be effectively jammed. Hence any 4th generation fighter aircraft would be doomed from the word go. Hence Storm drones supplemented by MALE UAV would be dominating such environments along with 5th Generation Aircraft providing top cover.

People here are talking about replace PAF Mirages and F-16 which are the first choice in both spectrums i.e Air Superiority and Ground Attack. Replace Ground attack with a dedicated 5th generation Ground attack aircraft and replace Air Superiority aircraft with a 5th Generation Air Superiority aircraft is highly unlikely for Pakistan on account of funds and technology transfer by most of the countries.
 
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Replacement aircraft is no where in sight. Reason is Mirage 3/5 / F4/ F5 are of the same era and same role GROUND ATTACK. Turkey wanted to replace F-4's with F-35 as their Stealth would make them an ideal SEAD platform.

Looking at the next 10-15 years almost all important sites would be under air defence systems that would have ESAR radars which can not be effectively jammed. Hence any 4th generation fighter aircraft would be doomed from the word go. Hence Storm drones supplemented by MALE UAV would be dominating such environments along with 5th Generation Aircraft providing top cover.

People here are talking about replace PAF Mirages and F-16 which are the first choice in both spectrums i.e Air Superiority and Ground Attack. Replace Ground attack with a dedicated 5th generation Ground attack aircraft and replace Air Superiority aircraft with a 5th Generation Air Superiority aircraft is highly unlikely for Pakistan on account of funds and technology transfer by most of the countries.
:tup:
 
. . .
@ilion1234 and Deino

Guys the hard reality is very difficult for members to digest .....
people no the truth inside but can't speak the truth
that being a modest country with terrible financial constraints will.always be limited on what can be achieved
pakistan is now even behind Bangladesh in gdp per capita and forex
things like type 55 destroyers j15 j16 j20 are far fetched dreams that will.not happen ever no matter how much you praise China...

demand bans is childish and wreaks complex and angst

thank God your 2 bring reality to the table
You better care about your samoosa(teja). We are ready to roast it with AMRAAM in next 27 feb, even in this financial condition we will not spare your new mighty god rafale . So hide the samoosa in orrisa or bengal, it would be a better solution for your ego.
 
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Son,

Just understand this---I am the member who suggested 3 major items for Pak navy 7 + years before anyone dreamt of it in Pak navy---. Those are the JH7A's---Type 054's and chinese subs---.

The type 054's are about to be integrated---the chinese subs are coming pretty soon----2 out of 3 major major weapons systems that I had proposed have been and about to be in service.

So---if you cast aside your stupidity and start to think for a moment---you might begin to understand that maybe I may have more information, may have more input in the procurement of some systems that you could ever imagine.

Baby boy---just remember---you are on a defense forum not a 'truth forum'.


even a broken clock is right twice a day ;)
 
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