Remembrance of Muharram , the days of sorrow and grief

[somebozo]

Please ensure that your objectivity refrains from implying insults to the prophets grandson.

Not wanting to start a religious debate here and NO insults intended but the entire story sounds like make-believe political tale.
Every religion has their story of such martyrdom - no exclusivity here.

I don't support the event or either side but I don't see any importance in remembering the event several centuries later and settling scores by killing each other over what happened in 7th Century Arabia.

The Hashmite vs Ummayads analysis is believed by many Bedouins experts of Arab tribal warfare especially those who have focused on the history of Quraysh, its rise as a power broker of Makkah and the internal power struggles.

However, obviously such study cannot be released officially due to religious and clerical sensitivities.

 

[valkyr_96]

plz elaborate

 

[SQ8]

Not wanting to start a religious debate here and NO insults intended but the entire story sounds like make-believe political tale.
Every religion has their story of such martyrdom - no exclusivity here.

I don't support the event or either side but I don't see any importance in remembering the event several centuries later and settling scores by killing each other over what happened in 7th Century Arabia.

I agree with your last part, I do not agree with the rest of the wahabi-esque ideology of forgetting and burying all records of those that formed Islam. Those people set examples for us to follow, for what is right and what is wrong.
Off course the tale as it is told has exaggeration depending on the sect, but if one concentrates only on the act and the principle and not the "mirch masala" added on or taken off through the different sects...then it still stands as a moral example.
Washing it over as blood feuds or political maneuvering without looking into the idealism that went into it under the guise of objectivity is precisely what signals the end of a community. And it has begun thanks to the poison out of Uyayna, for which I have little objectivity other than contempt.

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

"Husain is from me and I am from Husain. May God love whoever loves Husain."

 

[Bratva]

I second Somebozo thoughts. House of Prophet (P.B.U.H) was the beacon and leader of spirituality. They should not have indulged in Pitty politics. If it was the case, Hazrat Mohammad (P.B.U.H) must have told his ummah before his death to chose Hazrat Ali (R.A) as their Caliph. Yet he remained silent in this matter which indicates he didn't want his family to indulge in wordly affairs and to lead his ummah in the matters of spirituality and ISLAM.\

We all know the Muqam of Hazrat Ali(R.A). He was given the knowledge of whole universe By Allah. When Gabriel disguised as a human came in front of him and asked him to tell where is Gabriel. After some seconds Hazrat Ali (R.A) told this guy i have searched Gabriel all over the world and in seven skies. He was not there which means the person standing infront of me is Gabriel. That was the muqaam of Hazral Ali and the ahlul bayt !

 

[somebozo]

I second Somebozo thoughts. House of Propher (P.B.U.H) was the beacon and leader of spirituality. They should not have indulged in Pitty politics. If it was the case, Hazrat Mohammad (P.B.U.H) must have told his ummah before his death to chose Hazrat Ali (R.A) as his successor. Yet he remained silent in this matter which indicates he didn't want his family to indulge in wordly affairs and lead his ummah in the matters of spirituality and ISLAM

Prophet widows and family were fighting among themselves which killed 10,000 People.
Such is the case of Ummah even today. Little has changed during all this time.

The fitna baz continue to expand and use religion for making clash between two groups of people.


Battle of the Camel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Battle of the Camel (also known as the Battle of Jamal) was a battle that took place at Basra, Iraq in 656 between forces allied to Ali ibn Abi Talib (Muhammad's cousin and son-in-law, Commander of the Faithful) and forces allied to Aisha (widow of Muhammad, and Mother of the Believers (Arabic: Umm-al-Mu'mineen), who wanted justice on the perpetrators of the assassination of the previous caliph, Uthman.

According to William Muir, 10,000 people lost their life in this battle, with each party bearing equal loss. In the three days after the battle, Ali performed a funeral service for all the dead from both parties.

The combat had lasted 110 days in total.

One was commander of the belivers and second was mother of the believers. Theoretically, mother and son going to war. Epic, just epic. Islamic history never ceases to amaze me over its follies! 10,000 people lost their life so the two parties can reconcile and get back to what they could have agreed peacefully. Just pathetic!

If you stick with 7th century politics then you will face 7th century problems. Doesn't take a PhD to figure this out. Take the above mentioned article in wider context and you have the today's sectarian violence of Pakistan.

 

[Bratva]

Prophet widows and family were fighting among themselves which killed 10,000 People.
Such is the case of Ummah even today. Little has changed during all this time.

The fitna baz continue to expand and use religion for making clash between two groups of people.


Battle of the Camel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




One was commander of the belivers and second was mother of the believers. Theoretically, mother and son going to war. Epic, just epic. Islamic history never ceases to amaze me over its follies!

Qaatil bhe Shaheed, Maqtool Bhe Shaheed.

 

[SQ8]

The biggest issue is that instead of taking example, Muslims wail over sides.
These incidents serve as examples, tragedies to be regretted.. and not feuds to be fueled and forwarded.

 

[KingMamba]

Somebozo please leave if you have nothing positive to say. Both Sunnis and Shias mourn on Muharram in different ways. Some do it by fasting and some by mataam. You obviously know nothing trying to peddle forth the foolish notion that this was some sort of power struggle. The fifth caliph was Imam Hassan (RA) and he was more than willing to surrender the Caliphate to Maurwyah with condition that the Caliph who would follow him not be his son because that would turn the Caliphate into a monarchy. Imam Hassan (RA) had already passed when Yazid was handed the Caliphate in clear violation of the agreement. That is why Imam Hussain (RA) refused to accept his rule, he never wanted the caliphate for himself, he was just trying to prevent the advent of a bloodline monarchy which was what became of the Caliphate after his sacrifice. Yazid's motives were clear, he wanted the Caliphate to stay within his family and he knew that the only other family on the planet who could challenge his desire was the family of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Why do you think his men killed the 6 month old son of Imam Hussain (RA), when he could have done no harm?? It was about trying to wipe out the bloodline of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

Prophet widows and family were fighting among themselves which killed 10,000 People.
Such is the case of Ummah even today. Little has changed during all this time.

The fitna baz continue to expand and use religion for making clash between two groups of people.


Battle of the Camel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




One was commander of the belivers and second was mother of the believers. Theoretically, mother and son going to war. Epic, just epic. Islamic history never ceases to amaze me over its follies! 10,000 people lost their life so the two parties can reconcile and get back to what they could have agreed peacefully. Just pathetic!

If you stick with 7th century politics then you will face 7th century problems. Doesn't take a PhD to figure this out. Take the above mentioned article in wider context and you have the today's sectarian violence of Pakistan.

Hazrat Ali (RA) himself forgave Hazrat Aisha (RA) so who are you to judge???

I second Somebozo thoughts. House of Prophet (P.B.U.H) was the beacon and leader of spirituality. They should not have indulged in Pitty politics. If it was the case, Hazrat Mohammad (P.B.U.H) must have told his ummah before his death to chose Hazrat Ali (R.A) as their Caliph. Yet he remained silent in this matter which indicates he didn't want his family to indulge in wordly affairs and to lead his ummah in the matters of spirituality and ISLAM.\

We all know the Muqam of Hazrat Ali(R.A). He was given the knowledge of whole universe By Allah. When Gabriel disguised as a human came in front of him and asked him to tell where is Gabriel. After some seconds Hazrat Ali (R.A) told this guy i have searched Gabriel all over the world and in seven skies. He was not there which means the person standing infront of me is Gabriel. That was the muqaam of Hazral Ali and the ahlul bayt !

Do not malign the ahlul bayt.

 

[somebozo]

Somebozo please leave if you have nothing positive to say. Both Sunnis and Shias mourn on Muharram in different ways. Some do it by fasting and some by mataam. You obviously know nothing trying to peddle forth the foolish notion that this was some sort of power struggle. The fifth caliph was Imam Hassan (RA) and he was more than willing to surrender the Caliphate to Maurwyah with condition that the Caliph who would follow him not be his son because that would turn the Caliphate into a monarchy. Imam Hassan (RA) had already passed when Yazid was handed the Caliphate in clear violation of the agreement. That is why Imam Hussain (RA) refused to accept his rule, he never wanted the caliphate for himself, he was just trying to prevent the advent of a bloodline monarchy which was what became of the Caliphate after his sacrifice. Yazid's motives were clear, he wanted the Caliphate to stay within his family and he knew that the only other family on the planet who could challenge his desire was the family of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Why do you think his men killed the 6 month old son of Imam Hussain (RA), when he could have done no harm?? It was about trying to wipe out the bloodline of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).



Hazrat Ali (RA) himself forgave Hazrat Aisha (RA) so who are you to judge???

In a similar fashion how Hashemites occupied the seat of Arab power in Mekkah for several centuries. The Ummayad resented the Hashemite rise to power and you only validate the theory that it was a typical Ummayad vs Hashemite power struggle - nothing else. These are not my views, many Arab Bedouin experts in tribal warfare will attest the same.

Did that pardon bring back 10,000 killed for nothing? No!

 

[KingMamba]

Qaatil bhe Shaheed, Maqtool Bhe Shaheed.

First of all Muslims are instructed to be ready to fight if they believe the leader is unjust. Hazrat Aisha (RA) thought Hazrat Ali (RA) was wrong to have not punished the murderers of Hazrat Usman (RA) she was within her right to be willing to fight to try and remove him. Second like I said despite losing Hazrat Ali (RA) not only forgave her but they made amends so who are you to judge???

 

[KingMamba]

In a similar fashion how Hashemites occupied the seat of Arab power in Mekkah for several centuries. The Ummayad resented the Hashemite rise to power and you only validate the theory that it was a typical Ummayad vs Hashemite power struggle - nothing else. These are not my views, many Arab Bedouin experts in tribal warfare will attest the same.

Which Hashemites do you refer to?? Do you know who the ahlul bayt are only Hazrat Ali (RA) and Hazrat Hassan (RA) were ever in a position of power during the Caliphate era. The rest of the caliphate was turned into a virtual monarchy by the Ummayads and remained this way until their overthrow by the Abbasids. What several centuries are you referring to???? Who are these Arab Bedouin tribal experts, if the Salafis are teaching you BS against the ahlul bayt do yourself a favor and stop listening.

 

[KingMamba]

This thread is pissing me off Hazrat Ali (RA) was Caliph for 5 years while Hazrat Hassan (RA) was barely Caliph for a year before ceding it in order to prevent a civil war yet this guy wants to talk about CENTURIES of power.

 

[Bratva]

Somebozo please leave if you have nothing positive to say. Both Sunnis and Shias mourn on Muharram in different ways. Some do it by fasting and some by mataam. You obviously know nothing trying to peddle forth the foolish notion that this was some sort of power struggle. The fifth caliph was Imam Hassan (RA) and he was more than willing to surrender the Caliphate to Maurwyah with condition that the Caliph who would follow him not be his son because that would turn the Caliphate into a monarchy. Imam Hassan (RA) had already passed when Yazid was handed the Caliphate in clear violation of the agreement. That is why Imam Hussain (RA) refused to accept his rule, he never wanted the caliphate for himself, he was just trying to prevent the advent of a bloodline monarchy which was what became of the Caliphate after his sacrifice. Yazid's motives were clear, he wanted the Caliphate to stay within his family and he knew that the only other family on the planet who could challenge his desire was the family of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Why do you think his men killed the 6 month old son of Imam Hussain (RA), when he could have done no harm?? It was about trying to wipe out the bloodline of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).



Hazrat Ali (RA) himself forgave Hazrat Aisha (RA) so who are you to judge???



Do not malign the ahlul bayt.

Imam Hassan was poisoned according to many narrations and in all the ummayads and abbasi dynasty, only ray of hope and man of indisputable character was Umar bin Abdul Aziz.

 

[KingMamba]

Imam Hassan was poisoned according to many narrations and in all the ummayads and abbasi dynasty, only ray of hope and man of indisputable character was Umar bin Abdul Aziz.

Yeah, poisoned by who and on whose orders?? Perhaps the more important question is why was he poisoned?? Secondly nobody said all the Ummayad Caliphs were bad but the vast majority in the Ummayad era were power hungry who were trying to keep the power hereditary.