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Remember the USS Liberty? The US and Israel wish you didn't

The belief that Israel intentionally murdered Americans is not credible. The incident was a tragic accident, which happens in the fog of war.

Please tell me, if you think otherwise: what did Israel gain by attacking the USS Liberty?

Do you have any history with the Navy?

Why do you say it isn't credible? Because the administration covered it up? We have survivors who speak of this to this day.

As for whatever they would gain, it could have been something they would lose. We don't really know unless you're getting access to confidential information. Many people have suggested it was about intelligence the US had on Israeli plans to seize Arab territories.
 
What about Iraq and USS Stark? Any conspiracy there?
 

I usually don't watch videos, especially political ones--a video of a speech at the "National Summit to Reassess the US-Israel Special Relationship" is guaranteed to be propaganda, but out of my respect for you (Yza Khalifa) from seeing your posts as a long-time lurker, I watched it. I am afraid I wasted my time.

I learned two things from this video. First, the USS Liberty conspiracy theorists are fighting a straw man, believing that the rest of the world denies that Israel attacked the USS Liberty. Second, USS Liberty conspiracy theorists believe that Israel attacked the USS Liberty to prevent the United States from passing intelligence on Israeli troop movements to Egypt. If, contrary to the evidence, you believe either of these positions, then we're probably wasting our time discussing this.

It's not possible to combat mental illness with reasoning, so I'm not going to try. I will only invite those who still retain the capacity for critical thinking to review the primary documents for themselves instead of allowing others to do the thinking for them.

Do you have any history with the Navy?

Why do you say it isn't credible? Because the administration covered it up? We have survivors who speak of this to this day.

As for whatever they would gain, it could have been something they would lose. We don't really know unless you're getting access to confidential information. Many people have suggested it was about intelligence the US had on Israeli plans to seize Arab territories.

Those who claim it was covered up insist that there was a massive conspiracy between Israel, the LBJ administration, the Navy leadership, the CIA, and Congress. A reasonable person would not find such an assertion to be credible, but perhaps you are an unreasonable person.
 
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Many people have suggested it was about intelligence the US had on Israeli plans to seize Arab territories.
You say that Israel controls US so it forces to forget about Liberty and bans fair investigations.

Yet in same time you say that Israel fears that US will discover some unknown plans which u cant even tell what they could be.

You just cant make up ur conspiracy mind.
 
Remember the USS Liberty? The US and Israel wish you didn't


USS_Liberty.jpg

US tax dollars keep the Israeli military well-oiled and ready for action, while Israel spies on its closest ally and most loyal supporter and, as the USS Liberty incident demonstrates, is ready to kill Americans as and when necessary.

It is often assumed that Israel was on the defensive in the Six-Day War of June 1967. That is testimony to the success of its propaganda, because the reality was very different. "From the very beginning," wrote James Bamford in Body of Secrets (2001), "an essential element in the Israeli battle plan seemed to have been to hide much of the war behind a carefully constructed curtain of lies. Lies about the Egyptian threat, lies about who started the war, lies to the American president, lies to the UN Security Council, lies to the press, lies to the public." The facts reveal that being Israel's main ally did not mean that American citizens were safe. The story of the attack on the USS Liberty by the Israeli air force and navy still has the power to shock, as has the official cover-up that has persisted ever since.

Israel launched air attacks against Egypt's airfields at 7.45am on 5th June 1967. Within a couple of hours most of the Egyptian air forces was destroyed on the ground. At the same time, Israeli tanks scythed across the Sinai Desert heading for the Suez Canal and its troops initiated fighting on the borders with Syria and Jordan. False reports, meanwhile, claimed that Egypt had launched a major attack on Israel, which was fighting back in self-defence, a familiar refrain ever since. By mid-morning, Foreign Minister Abba Eban was telling the US ambassador in Tel Aviv "an ever larger curtain of lies" and claimed that Israel had "no intention of taking advantage of the situation to enlarge its territory." Another lie.

As the fighting raged, the USS Liberty, a surveillance ship operated by America's National Security Agency (NSA) took up a holding position off the Sinai coast, in international waters. The ship was identified by a number of Israeli aircraft; radio traffic showed them reporting the ship's identification code "GTR-5" back to headquarters. The number was emblazoned in large, bold letters on the ship's bows.

By 9.30am the minaret of the mosque in El-Arish was visible to the crew of the Liberty. Unknown to them, at that time Israeli forces were "engaged in a criminal slaughter". Not only were Indian peacekeepers with the UN in Sinai killed by Israeli tanks, and fourteen others were killed by an Israeli attack on the UN compound in Gaza, but around 60 Egyptian prisoners of war were also killed in cold blood by Israeli forces next to the mosque. In another incident near El-Arish Airport, 150 prisoners of war were shot by the Israelis. According to evidence collected by Israeli journalists, altogether around 1,000 Egyptian prisoners of war were killed, including 400 in El-Arish. "The extensive war crimes were just one of the deep secrets Israel had sought to conceal since the start of the conflict," alleges James Bamford. Hence, the "carefully constructed curtain of lies".

At midday on the 8th June 1967, an Israeli army commander reported that "a ship was shelling the Israelis". This was patently untrue as the Israeli navy and air force had by then been monitoring Liberty for 6 hours. Even so, the order was given to attack the US vessel. Israeli motor torpedo boats left Ashdod harbour at 12.05pm, followed by fighter aircraft armed with armour-piercing cannon.

The Israeli boats sighted the Liberty at 1.41pm and gave the order for the aircraft to attack. Survivors of the attack confirmed that the fighters had no identification markings on them. It was, to all intents and purposes, an attack by unknown assailants.

Israel's Mirage jets raked the American ship "from bow to stern" several times. Later examination estimated that it was hit more than 800 times. Although neither the Israelis nor the crew of the USS Liberty knew about it at the time, the attack was monitored by an American spy plane flying high above. This remained a closely-guarded secret for many years until Bamford was shown the papers during his research.

At 2.24pm Israeli torpedo boats attacked the USS Liberty with gunfire before lining up and firing enough torpedoes "to sink an aircraft carrier"; only one of them actually hit the ship. Life rafts thrown overboard by the American sailors were fired at by the Israelis and damaged. It was clear, survivors said, that the Israelis were intent on sinking the ship and making sure that there were no witnesses to what they had done. Half an hour later, aircraft from the US Sixth Fleet were sent to the Liberty's aid. Bizarrely, messages telling the ship to leave the area and its own SOS signals had not been received at either end, or had been ignored.

Within hours of the attack, "Israel asked President Johnson to quietly bury the incident." As the ship limped into Malta a couple of days later, unnamed sources in Washington suggested blocking press photographs so that public opinion against Israel would not be inflamed. The surviving crew members were threatened with courts-martial if they revealed anything about the attack.

Israel, meanwhile, claimed that the attack was a mistake; a case of "mistaken identity", despite the large US flag flying from the mast and the clear "GTR-5" on the bows. No one has ever even been prosecuted or even reprimanded for the attack. In fact, "Israel chose instead to honour Motor Torpedo Boat 203 which fired the deadly torpedo at the USS Liberty."

In all, 34 members of the crew of the USS Liberty were killed by Israel's murderous attack; 170 were wounded. According to Alan Hart, the subsequent clampdown "was not actually for security reasons but for domestic political reasons... President Johnson was worried about the reaction of Jewish voters." (Zionism: The real enemy of the Jews, volume 2, 2007)

Israel's General Moshe Dayan had actually given notice of his intent to attack the Liberty because he wanted no witnesses to the war crimes being committed by his troops in Sinai and Gaza. Hart claims that President Johnson, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the CIA and the NSA knew this. As such, when the early reports of the attack arrived, they had a choice. "In Taking Sides, Stephen Green put it this way: The choice was, 'either to take retaliatory action against Israel, or to become an accessory after the fact by promoting the fiction that it was somehow an accident.'"

We know which path they took. To this day no official inquiry has been conducted by the US government into the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty. Compensation has been paid but campaigners in the US still insist that the crew were "attacked by Israel and betrayed by the US"; they want justice.

.............................


Yawn......
 
Do you have any history with the Navy?

Why do you say it isn't credible? Because the administration covered it up? We have survivors who speak of this to this day.

As for whatever they would gain, it could have been something they would lose. We don't really know unless you're getting access to confidential information. Many people have suggested it was about intelligence the US had on Israeli plans to seize Arab territories.

So? they were witness to the even, the controversy is not about the even itself but what led to it.
 
Those who claim it was covered up insist that there was a massive conspiracy between Israel, the LBJ administration, the Navy leadership, the CIA, and Congress. A reasonable person would not find such an assertion to be credible, but perhaps you are an unreasonable person.

Why do you make it more than it is? The American administration was allied Israel and didn't want to jeopardize ties even if it was deliberate. Those few dozen Americans killed probably meant nothing to the administration. The ship was on a top secret mission which we don't know about. Most likely a spy ship. That is a reasonable explanation. No discussion was allowed on this incident, media organizations didn't report on it either. They did it so they could attack Syria.

You say that Israel controls US so it forces to forget about Liberty and bans fair investigations.

Yet in same time you say that Israel fears that US will discover some unknown plans which u cant even tell what they could be.

You just cant make up ur conspiracy mind.

I don't see where I said Israel controls the US, although today it's a different matter. Back then they didn't have anywhere near as much influence as they do today.

Israel and foreign Jews work together.
 
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but out of my respect for you (Yza Khalifa) from seeing your posts as a long-time lurker, I watched it. I am afraid I wasted my time.

I do respect everyone's opinion as well, as long as it keeps it constructivism traits in place, including yours. Yet, at the same time, I don't force anyone to buy into what I represent - despite the fact that the video I attached doesn't reflect my own opinion in light of this issue - This is how a faction of American intellectuals view the issue.


we're probably wasting our time discussing this.

I don't think so. I'm always up to hearing what people have to say on this and that.

I usually don't watch videos, especially political ones--a video of a speech at the "National Summit to Reassess the US-Israel Special Relationship" is guaranteed to be propaganda, but out of my respect for you (Yza Khalifa) from seeing your posts as a long-time lurker, I watched it. I am afraid I wasted my time.

I learned two things from this video. First, the USS Liberty conspiracy theorists are fighting a straw man, believing that the rest of the world denies that Israel attacked the USS Liberty. Second, USS Liberty conspiracy theorists believe that Israel attacked the USS Liberty to prevent the United States from passing intelligence on Israeli troop movements to Egypt. If, contrary to the evidence, you believe either of these positions, then we're probably wasting our time discussing this.

It's not possible to combat mental illness with reasoning, so I'm not going to try. I will only invite those who still retain the capacity for critical thinking to review the primary documents for themselves instead of allowing others to do the thinking for them.



Those who claim it was covered up insist that there was a massive conspiracy between Israel, the LBJ administration, the Navy leadership, the CIA, and Congress. A reasonable person would not find such an assertion to be credible, but perhaps you are an unreasonable person.
 
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CNN.com - USS Liberty attack tapes released - Jul. 10, 2003

"Here the transcripts are saying, 'Well, you know, there may be people speaking English on this ship,'" Bamford said. "Why would you say that if it's an Egyptian ship, carrying horses?"

On the tape, after the rescue helicopter pilot tells ground control he sees an American flag on the ship, he receives an order in return.

"They request that you make another pass and check once again whether it is really an American flag," ground control says.

The order suggests the Israelis were surprised at word of a U.S. flag, but it also runs counter to what Israeli fighter pilots and torpedo boat crews have always insisted: That they could not see an American flag.

........................
 
Why do you make it more than it is? The American administration was allied Israel and didn't want to jeopardize ties even if it was deliberate. Those few dozen Americans killed probably meant nothing to the administration. The ship was on a top secret mission which we don't know about. Most likely a spy ship. That is a reasonable explanation. No discussion was allowed on this incident, media organizations didn't report on it either. They did it so they could attack Syria.



I don't see where I said Israel controls the US, although today it's a different matter. Back then they didn't have anywhere near as much influence as they do today.

Israel and foreign Jews work together.

When I read this, it becomes apparent that the chronology isn't clear to you. The US and Israel became closer strategically after the 1967 war, not before. Before 1967, the US, in fact, refused to sell F-4 Phantoms to Israel. In other words, there was nothing for the American administration to jeopardize--it maintained a scrupulously even-handed policy before 1967. Afterwards, it began to see Israel as a useful counterweight to the USSR-dominated Arab world.
 
So? they were witness to the even, the controversy is not about the even itself but what led to it.

Ex-Navy Official: 1967 Israeli Attack on U.S. Ship Was Deliberate | Fox News

In a signed affidavit released at a Capitol Hill news conference, retired Capt. Ward Boston (search) said Johnson and McNamara told those heading the Navy's inquiry to "conclude that the attack was a case of 'mistaken identity' despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary."

Boston was senior legal counsel to the Navy's original 1967 review of the attack. He said in the sworn statement that he stayed silent for years because he's a military man, and "when orders come ... I follow them."

He said he felt compelled to "share the truth" following the publication of a recent book, "The Liberty Incident," which concluded the attack was unintentional.

........................

When I read this, it becomes apparent that the chronology isn't clear to you. The US and Israel became closer strategically after the 1967 war, not before. Before 1967, the US, in fact, refused to sell F-4 Phantoms to Israel. In other words, there was nothing for the American administration to jeopardize--it maintained a scrupulously even-handed policy before 1967. Afterwards, it began to see Israel as a useful counterweight to the USSR-dominated Arab world.

That's exactly what I'm implying.
 
CNN.com - USS Liberty attack tapes released - Jul. 10, 2003

"Here the transcripts are saying, 'Well, you know, there may be people speaking English on this ship,'" Bamford said. "Why would you say that if it's an Egyptian ship, carrying horses?"

On the tape, after the rescue helicopter pilot tells ground control he sees an American flag on the ship, he receives an order in return.

"They request that you make another pass and check once again whether it is really an American flag," ground control says.

The order suggests the Israelis were surprised at word of a U.S. flag, but it also runs counter to what Israeli fighter pilots and torpedo boat crews have always insisted: That they could not see an American flag.

........................

From your link:

The recordings were made by a nearby American surveillance aircraft in the immediate aftermath of the attack.

"For your info, it is apparently an Arab ship," says ground control.

"Roger," says the pilot.

"It is an Egyptian supply ship," says ground control.

"Roger," comes the response.

The NSA released the tapes and transcripts under the Freedom of Information Act in response to a request from Miami Judge Jay Cristol.

An author of a book on the attack, Cristol said the tapes show it was a tragic accident in a time of war -- that the Israelis mistook the ship for an Egyptian one.

"I don't think there's any question that anyone who reads these tapes would be absolutely convinced there was the fog of war out there," Cristol said.

When the conspiracy theorists can prove that the Israelis believed they needed to attack the ship to stop intelligence from being passed to the Arabs, then we have something to debate. Until then, the tinfoil hat crowd might as well be claiming that the Israelis bombed the USS Liberty to prevent it from transporting alien embryos to Area 51. Where's the proof?

Ex-Navy Official: 1967 Israeli Attack on U.S. Ship Was Deliberate | Fox News

In a signed affidavit released at a Capitol Hill news conference, retired Capt. Ward Boston (search) said Johnson and McNamara told those heading the Navy's inquiry to "conclude that the attack was a case of 'mistaken identity' despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary."

Boston was senior legal counsel to the Navy's original 1967 review of the attack. He said in the sworn statement that he stayed silent for years because he's a military man, and "when orders come ... I follow them."

He said he felt compelled to "share the truth" following the publication of a recent book, "The Liberty Incident," which concluded the attack was unintentional.

........................



That's exactly what I'm implying.

What is this evidence?
 
From your link:



When the conspiracy theorists can prove that the Israelis believed they needed to attack the ship to stop intelligence from being passed to the Arabs, then we have something to debate. Until then, the tinfoil hat crowd might as well be claiming that the Israelis bombed the USS Liberty to prevent it from transporting alien embryos to Area 51. Where's the proof?



What is this evidence?

Now scroll to the last piece of evidence you conveniently ignored.

So they had confirmed twice that it was an American ship and came back and bombed it.

That's to deal with the evidence.

My personal theory is that they aren't stupid and knew the US would monitor their discussion. So they played along as if it's Egyptian ship. Someone from the administration probably gave them a forewarning. Or else Israel wouldn't have occupied all those Arab territories if the USS Liberty wasn't sank.
 
Now scroll to the last piece of evidence you conveniently ignored.

So they had confirmed twice that it was an American ship and came back and bombed it.

That's to deal with the evidence.

My personal theory is that they aren't stupid and knew the US would monitor their discussion. So they played along as if it's Egyptian ship. Someone from the administration probably gave them a forewarning. Or else Israel wouldn't have occupied all those Arab territories if the USS Liberty wasn't sank.

From your link:

Moorer's panel suggested several possible reasons Israel might have wanted to attack a U.S. ship. Among them: Israel intended to sink the ship and blame Egypt because it might have brought the United States into the 1967 war.

Ok, they changed stories, now Israel decided to sink an American ship to bring the US into a war that Israel had already won hours previously. Let me guess, they also think Israel was behind 9/11.

In all seriousness, is there any proof of these claims? Everyone claims there is indisputable evidence. Where is this smoking gun? If it's so easy to prove, then prove it. The radio transcripts prove the exact opposite.

I personally stand behind my alien embryo conspiracy theory, and I have indisputable evidence to prove it. I'm just not going to show you.
 
I don't see where I said Israel controls the US, although today it's a different matter. Back then they didn't have anywhere near as much influence as they do today.

Israel and foreign Jews work together.
You claim that Israel deliberately attacked US ship and then forced US to shut up.

But if Israel could force US to shut up, what was the point to attack that ship on first place?
 
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