Religious Freedom in Islamic Countries- can u plz explain this?

[KS]

Please ask the Indians to do the same and do not bring Islam into that thread about Christains in Manipur .

If they bring into debate something which goes back to Babri Mosque here in this thread then we are bound to reply them here

This is wat happens wen u reply the same hash in every thread.
Say wat u want in that thread.

this thread is about religious freedom in Muslim countries and please go back a few pages to see who brought in Babr Masjid inside.

It was brought by AZADPAKISTAN

I think you assume Muslim countries are like India where HISTORIC mosques are burned down , becasue some pujari burried some idol in sand and claimed he found it there

So if anyones at fault it is him..not anyone else

p.s.: please bring ur debate to that specified thread...No need to continue that here

 

[sparklingway]

Who would prefer current day scholars over Quran and Islamic rules as describe by the Prophet (BPUH)

They have interpreted not according to their own views but rather on the basis of scripture and recorded text. Self styled "progressive" scholars and others who demand that religion has to be interpreted according to the demands of time, support that apostasy is not punishable by death. All traditional scholars disagree. I'm not bringing in scripture since forum rules do not support bringing them in and there's been renewed debate over other members quoting scripture all the time (mod=standards you know )

I am not talking about politics but about Quran and Sunnah according to which there is no punishment for converting to other faiths

I'm not talking politics either. They merely tried to do what they perceive as their religious duty. You're somehow trying to deny that this is not even the common view or common position (78% believe that capital punishment is the appropriate punishment for apostates)

I've been trying to avoid scripture. But, here it goes. Quran does not state capital punishment for leaving faith, however states that Allah despises it and there are repercussions in the hereafter.

Sahih Bukhari has evidence of not one, but many cases of capital punishment being proscribed for apostasy. This has been expounded in very, very detail by scholars throughout history All major schools of thought agree on capital punishment. Please search relevant text online.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

Every one has right to preach what he/she believes in, Period!!

 

[Spring Onion]

The book name please




Miss...I asked a similar question..Has Prophet Mohammed's existence been proved scientifically..?



As I told u....Religion knows no history..So please stay off uncharted waters...Its a sensitive issue for us.



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I have put the link anyway here is

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as far as sensitivity then please ask your hindu members from refraining from bringing in our sensitivities too.


This debate had been done many times in this forum and as per forum rules religions are not discussed but still mods keeping in view the freedom allowed you guys to speak anything.

So keeping in view the same right why we should not question your faith when you are doing the same ?????????????/

 

[KS]

I have put the link anyway here is

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as far as sensitivity then please ask your hindu members from refraining from bringing in our sensitivities too.


This debate had been done many times in this forum and as per forum rules religions are not discussed but still mods keeping in view the freedom allowed you guys to speak anything.

So keeping in view the same right why we should not question your faith when you are doing the same ?????????????/

AS far as the link is concerned u want me to believe a book written by Romila Thapar who is staunchly anti-hindu...

Who questioned ur faith here..? I see even the MOD saying things in favour of allowing other religion preaching in Muslim countries.

Say wat offensive has other members said against Islam.

 

[chakra]

I have put the link anyway here is

JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie


as far as sensitivity then please ask your hindu members from refraining from bringing in our sensitivities too.


This debate had been done many times in this forum and as per forum rules religions are not discussed but still mods keeping in view the freedom allowed you guys to speak anything.

So keeping in view the same right why we should not question your faith when you are doing the same ?????????????/

MADAM ITS YOU WHO FIRST BROUGHT THIS TOPIC HERE. Better take some of your own advice.

 

[LaBong]

Every one has right to preach what he/she believes in, Period!

Agreed! and stress on period.

 

[sparklingway]

A debate over religion itself is different than a debate over rights than involve the role of religion in society. The difference is bleak to some, wide to others.

If all you can do is derail threads and bring in arguments on the basis of a logical fallacy as big as tu quoque, I guess you have never gone through a single text in logic and/or reasoning.

 

[Spring Onion]

I'm not talking politics either. They merely tried to do what they perceive as their religious duty. You're somehow trying to deny that this is not even the common view or common position (78% believe that capital punishment is the appropriate punishment for apostates)

I was not talking about Common view of ignorant which includes you and me as well as we do not have knowledge of our religion as per Quran and Sunnah (Not according to so-called scholars i dont believe them).

I've been trying to avoid scripture. But, here it goes. Quran does not state capital punishment for leaving faith, however states that Allah despises it and there are repercussions in the hereafter.

The bold part which matter and proves that Quran did not fix any Physical punishment for leaving Islam. As far as the herafter is considered it is said even that you will not be forgiven in the next life for gunnah-e-kabira means even for shirk there is NO physical punishment in this World in Islam


All this is self-evident that Islam has prescribed physical punishments in 99% of cases for those crimes which are harming the society i.e Killing, theft etc etc.

For any negligence in personal prayers or beliefs its always the punishment in hereafter

Sahih Bukhari has evidence of not one, but many cases of capital punishment being proscribed for apostasy. This has been expounded in very, very detail by scholars throughout history. Please search relevant text online.

Again these written by so-called scholars and we also know the view about many weak ahadith so. i wont go for these evidence when there is NO such punishment by Allah in Quran.

 

[killeragent]

is it possible to build a mosque in VATICAN???

well to be honest there must be a church in DAMAM but non of them are official they are in the US ARMY cantonment!

YES its possible.If you are one of among 824 citizens.
But its IMPOSSIBLE, because all off them are DIE HARD CHRISTIANS.

 

[sparklingway]

I was not talking about Common view of ignorant which includes you and me as well as we do not have knowledge of our religion as per Quran and Sunnah (Not according to so-called scholars i dont believe them).

Please search the question in hand according to the highlighted part.

The bold part which matter and proves that Quran did not fix any Physical punishment for leaving Islam. As far as the herafter is considered it is said even that you will not be forgiven in the next life for gunnah-e-kabira means even for shirk there is NO physical punishment in this World in Islam

Okay.

All this is self-evident that Islam has prescribed physical punishments in 99% of cases for those crimes which are harming the society i.e Killing, theft etc etc.

Apostasy has been directly equated with treason since time immemorial.

Again these written by so-called scholars and we also know the view about many weak ahadith so. i wont go for these evidence when there is NO such punishment by Allah in Quran.

Firstly, I should not see you relying on the work of any scholar next time. Whether it be the biggest of them who developed the jurisprudence of Islam or those who collected and expounded on all texts. I know these are cheap tactics from me, but I don't claim to be morally superior and I'd rather hold somebody responsible for what they said.

Secondly, they are not the weak ahadith. As I said, please search online. If you have any difficulty with that, I am more than willing to help you, albeit through PM.

Thirdly, there is much historical evidence from the era of the four caliphs to support the views of the scholars that nobody dare question them.

Fourthly, religion is expounded upon based on scriptures, texts and historical records (in this case being Quran, Hadith and Seerah). Scholars have a lot of evidence to base their arguments upon. You can challenge their arguments if you want to.

 

[Spring Onion]

AS far as the link is concerned u want me to believe a book written by Romila Thapar who is staunchly anti-hindu..

And we see many Hindus as anti-Islam so should we discard the thread started by an Indian Hindu member?


I feel Sparklingray is anti-Islam so is it mean that we should not accept any of his argument here ????????

Who questioned ur faith here..? I see even the MOD saying things in favour of allowing other religion preaching in Muslim countries.

Say wat offensive has other members said against Islam.

Many NON-MODS here say the same so do not try to be smart and bank on your favourit mod .

And who questioned your faith here??? i just put a part from your own Indian author who was questioning.

 

[chakra]

I was not talking about Common view of ignorant which includes you and me as well as we do not have knowledge of our religion as per Quran and Sunnah (Not according to so-called scholars i dont believe them).



The bold part which matter and proves that Quran did not fix any Physical punishment for leaving Islam. As far as the herafter is considered it is said even that you will not be forgiven in the next life for gunnah-e-kabira means even for shirk there is NO physical punishment in this World in Islam


All this is self-evident that Islam has prescribed physical punishments in 99% of cases for those crimes which are harming the society i.e Killing, theft etc etc.

For any negligence in personal prayers or beliefs its always the punishment in hereafter




Again these written by so-called scholars and we also know the view about many weak ahadith so. i wont go for these evidence when there is NO such punishment by Allah in Quran.

But ma'am the question remains that how many islamic countries actually follow this??
Take for example, saudi arabia. Its constitution states just the same thing as you say but actually is does not follow this or what it actually does in this case is a matter of controversy.

 

[Spring Onion]

Apostasy has been directly equated with treason since time immemorial.

Then what it has to do with Islam only ???????????

Firstly, I should not see you relying on the work of any scholar next time. Whether it be the biggest of them who developed the jurisprudence of Islam or those who collected and expounded on all texts.

Lolzzz you mean you are founding excuses for bashing Islamic rules in case in future there is any post based on work of scholars anyway.


If something is not there in Quran or did NOT practice by Prophet (PBUH) then i do not need to go into details what current day scholars are saying.

Secondly, they are not the weak ahadith. As I said, please search online. If you have any difficulty with that, I am more than willing to help you, albeit through PM.

Please do enlightened me how do you expect to separate religious debate here in this thread ???????

when a member brings the question of Apostasy which is directly related to religion here?

Thirdly, there is much historical evidence from the era of the four caliphs to support the views of the scholars that nobody dare question them.

and why should one accept the views if these were accepted during era of caliphs and not during era of the Prophet (PBUH).


I see alot of political angling and view point just like the popular one-sidedness when there was this much storm in a cup of tea with regard to that kazab issue recently but have seen the same people having different views with regard to ahamdis. In both the cases it was the blasphemy issue but people chose to speak selectively.


The bottomline is: Quran is very clear in this regard and i would prefer it more than anything.



i am done with this religious debate here.


The Indians may continue because the thread was repeated just with some other intentions

 

[Spring Onion]

But ma'am the question remains that how many islamic countries actually follow this??
Take for example, saudi arabia. Its constitution states just the same thing as you say but actually is does not follow this or what it actually does in this case is a matter of controversy.

How many Muslim countries follow the Tyrant ways of Saudi Arabia ??

and frankly speaking these Saudi rulers just worst than tyrants .

As far as rules are concerned than we see breach of these in almost every country laws are there but implementation is the issue