Religion and Dogma

[dadeechi]

You may conclude what you wish.

That is not my conclusion but of @Spectre

In my dictionary, both morality & immorality are mithya . Only Karma is real.

Who defines them and who judges. What is moral today is immoral tomorrow. What is moral to you is immoral to me.

 

[Joe Shearer]

That is not my conclusion but of @Spectre

In my dictionary, both morality & immorality are mithya . Only Karma is real.

Who defines them and who judges. What is moral today is immoral tomorrow. Who is moral to you is immoral to me.

You are still free to come to your own conclusions. I find this discussion of no interest.

 

[dadeechi]

For example, my parents are Chinese Buddhists. However, me and my brother are Atheist/Agnostic

You do understand that Buddhism is based on atheism. They are not contradictory.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

You do understand that Buddhism is based on atheism. They are not contradictory.

Original Buddhism yes, but not Chinese Buddhism.

In Chinese Folk Religion and Chinese Buddhism we have hundreds of Gods.

 

[The SC]

When a religion is pargmatic it can form a good frame of ethics to whom ever comes in contact with it; It becomes universal..As an example Islam was at its summum when it was most pragmatic and based on science and knowledge, it is a proof enough that a pragmatic religion does not conflict with science, knowledge and advancement while preserving morality and ethics in a society..

Terrorism has no religion, since as we all have seen, it can be Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Christians, Buddhists or even Atheists who can perpetrate these acts, so it is time to distant terrorism from religion, it has its origins in something else, be it inequality, politically motivated, revenge or many other possibilities..

 

[dadeechi]

Terrorism has no religion

Unfortunately for Muslims they have to defend their religion with this line.

Outside Muslims, only people who need to be politically correct take this line.. There are not many takers for this line outside these two groups.

Muslims need to introspect how they can have an image makeover.

 

[Tipu7]

@Oscar @WebMaster @waz @WAJsal

Please close this thread if the discussion on the captioned topic is against forum policies. I am skirting the line here but hope the debate is constructive and add somes perspective to muddled thought process many of us have.

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Introduction

We have all been appalled by the acts of terrorism, murder, rape, genocide etc committed in the name of religion. No religion is untouched by the crimes committed by their practitioners in it's name. We have had Paedophile priests, Islamic terrorists and Hindu genocidal mobs in times we live in.

All this perhaps creates a situation that the it is not the religion which defines it's followers but often followers defining their religion. So the goodness of Islam is warped by a fraction of misguided adherents, plurality and inclusivism of Hinduism lay forgotten because of it's demagogic leaders and Kindness of Christianity is undone by zealousness and cruelty of it's practitioners.

The good is so overshadowed by evil that we forget about the likes of Gandhis and Mother Teresa both @Devout practitioners. We forget that the noblest deeds, the most virtuous efforts in Human History have also been made in the name of religion.

At this stage one is forced to ask - What is it about religion that it inspires such cruelty as well as such kindness? How can the same fount of religion can be used to justify terrorism as well as altruism

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Dogma - A critique

All religions at their core are Dogmatic. For those who don't understand what it means - Simplest example is that the Dogma is something you can't deny. For Islam it would the singularity of God, for Hindus it could be belief in reincarnation, for Christians it could be virginity of Mary.

The above are benign examples of Dogma but religion also contains certain dogmatic cores which brings one group in direct conflict with the other. A true Adherent of Islam can perhaps be in conflict with Ahmedis, A Vaishanvite can be in conflict with Shaivite, a Protestant with Catholic. These are just examples of internal conflicts. External ones have much greater scope.

It is the dogma which demagogues use to brainwash the terrorists like ISIS and Al-Quaeda - implying that it is word of the God that you wage Jihad on Non Muslims, It is the word of the God that you kill Shias. In Hinduism it was the dogma which led to centuries long oppression and exploitation of Dalits. Some Christians still use Christianity to justify slavery and racism.

Dogma based approach to religion is not about bettering oneself but following of rules and scriptures. It instills among the adherents the need to impose their version of truths on others. It creates an exclusivist mentality. It creates the need to prove others wrong to prove oneself right. In short Dogma may at sometimes lie in direct conflict with morality

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Conclusion

The time has come to reform the static parts of the religious morality as the world cannot sustain itself much longer with all modern tools of destruction at hand which will be used if dogmatic beliefs of supremacy of one set of principles over others is to persist.

I am not a religious scholar - and the purpose of this thread is to not to deliver a lecture. PDF is fortunate enough to bring together people from all faiths and nationalities to a common platform. So I hope we can discuss if we can introduce enough flexibilities and leeway in the way religion is preached and practiced and may be take steps towards removing dogmatic principles which brings us in conflict.

Towards this end I will pose certain questions without malice for any religion

- Do you believe that your religion allows for other faiths to be practiced without censure and with tolerance

- Do you believe religion should be static or it should reform itself to adapt with modern sensibilities

- Does the required reform clash with founding principles of your religion

- If reforms are possible what would it entail and how do you suggest one begin

- How does one stop the misuse of religious dogma by terrorists to justify their action

@Joe Shearer @niaz @Levina @MarkusS @Chinese-Dragon

You wrote it very well.
Short but meaning ful ......

 

[The SC]

Unfortunately for Muslims they have to defend their religion with this line.

Outside Muslims, only people who need to be politically correct take this line.. There are not many takers for this line outside these two groups.

Muslims need to introspect how they can have an image makeover.

This is my whole previous post , your answer shows bias in your heart!

"When a religion is pargmatic it can form a good frame of ethichs to whom ever comes in contact with it, it becomes universal..As an example Islam was at its summum when it was most pragmatic and based on science and knowledge, it is a proof enough that a pragmatic religion does not conflict with science, knowledge and advancement while preserving morality and ethics in a society..

Terrorism has no religion, since as we all have seen, it can be Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Christians, Buddhists or even Atheists who can perpetrate these acts, so it is time to distant terrorism from religion, it has its origins in something else, be it inequality, politically motivated, revenge or many other possibilities.."

 

[dadeechi]

This is my whle previous post , your answer shows bias and hurt in your heart!

"When a religion is pargmatic it can form a good frame of ethichs to whom ever comes in contact with it, it becomes universal..As an example Islam was at its summum when it was most pragmatic and based on science and knowledge, it is a proof enough that a pragmatic religion does not conflict with science, knowledge and advancement while preserving morality and ethics in a society..

Terrorism has no religion, since as we all have seen, it can be Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Christians, Buddhists or even Atheists who can perpetrate these acts, so it is time to distant terrorism from religion, it has its origins in something else, be it inequality, politically motivated, revenge or many other possibilities.."

You totally missed the point that I was making.

You should hear to some talk radio and hear for yourself what people say instead of casting aspersions...

 

[SQ8]

Unfortunately for Muslims they have to defend their religion with this line.

Outside Muslims, only people who need to be politically correct take this line.. There are not many takers for this line outside these two groups.

Muslims need to introspect how they can have an image makeover.

But why is the image makeover needed? Why an image makeover which only serves those outside of the community and hence involves compromise on various principles of Islam until Islam no more exists which the only way such an audience would be satisfied.

What is needed is an internal audit and makeover to remove all regressive and ignorant ideologies whilst maintaining the foundations and principles of Islam. Some are Dogma, some are not.

 

[The SC]

You totally missed the point that I was making.

You should hear to some talk radio and hear for yourself what people say instead of casting aspersions...

I understand your point now, but you should have said "unfortunately, the Muslims" in the begining of your post..
I know that after every terrorist attack the whole world media goes bezerk , it is their bread and butter, and most people are very influenced by their media which in most cases are very biased and manupilative..

 

[SQ8]

@Oscar the problem is when someone is too deep into his own religion (set of beliefs)..after some time it becomes so ingrained into the sub-conscious that those turn into tangible realities. The person loses the ability to distinguish between the facts and the beliefs

We need to distinguish between deep faith and dead faith. Our maulanas for e.g have dead faith, almost all of our so called Ulema(the term Mufti is closest to their stature and that too I doubt) are of the view that whatever they say is gospel; no different than having millions of pope's running around in the Muslim world.

Deep faith is different, it requires a person to be sceptical and empirical about their beliefs and know that they are not facts until truly found via introspection.

 

[dadeechi]

But why is the image makeover needed? Why an image makeover which only serves those outside of the community and hence involves compromise on various principles of Islam until Islam no more exists which the only way such an audience would be satisfied.

What is needed is an internal audit and makeover to remove all regressive and ignorant ideologies whilst maintaining the foundations and principles of Islam. Some are Dogma, some are not.

Whether one likes it or not, we live in a world which requires high amount of social contact. People cannot live in isolation. When there is difference between your opinion and the perception of the people around you, will you continue to ignore their perception?

I understand your point now, but you should have said "unfortunately, the Muslims" in the begining of your post..
I know that after every terrorist attack the whole world media goes bezerk , it is their bread and butter, and most people are very influenced by their media which in the most cases are very biased and manupilative..

I said unfortunate because many Muslims are forced to defend and be defensive because of the acts of the some.

 

[SQ8]

Whether one likes it or not, we live in a world which requires high amount of social contact. People cannot live in isolation. When there is difference between your opinion and the perception of the people around you, will you continue to ignore their perception?.

I believe it is important to have people respect that perception out of knowledge rather than bend over to please people. This is a great issue that divides both "apologists" and "extremists" alike.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

@halupridol and @Spectre

Early man feared many things especially Thunder ; lightning ; rain ; darkness ; animals
death and hunger simply because he did nt understand about the world and universe

Similarly he looked at sky with amazement
and wondered about the sun; moon and stars

That was the origin of the idea that there was a SUPERIOR power who
had created and controlled the universe and provided food and water

This was the beginning of religion and the concept of GOD
who was a creator ; protector and provider

Morality came later on when humans settled down in cities and
civilisation gained strength

Morality evolved into law