Reinstatement of Pakistan's chief justice ends a crisis, but it might lead to another

[Stumper]

but honestly no honest man is actually standing up in any elections or hold a very strong mandate, no danda or superhonest leader will bring progress that infact is a very low mindset because only loyal hard working Pakistanis will bring progress to our country. We have leaders that are elected on mostly votes of people who don't even know how to write elections in any language to change that eiher you educate people and make them understand or let time slowly sort things out through democracy where people will learn from the fact that they can vote either way.

Bane, Honesty is a subjective word. I think the very fabric of indian and pakistani society is based on emotion's and need for self survival. Until we imbibe the sense of social commitment at grass root level, we can go on toying with structural and cosmetic changes and keep on wondering why things are not working. No judiciary or politician can help us. Take any society, its not the individual's or groups that have brought about the progress. But rather the common man's readiness to do self conscious moral policing, civic contribution and readiness to strive for cause of the masses, that will set the ball rolling for the kind of society that we seek. But remember this is not a one way street. To see the change, you will have to be the change. Start small. Contribute in any way you can. Let others know you care for our world. Stand up and ask question, be ready to be punished for demanding accountability from our government.

Education is definitely one of the effective means which can aid in this cause. But alas, its the government which decides what they teach us in school.

"Are you selfish?, that is the Question.
If you are, you will be perfect without reading a single religious book, without going into a single temple, church" ---- Swami Vivekanand.

 

[Bane Blade]

Education is definitely one of the effective means which can aid in this cause. But alas, its the government which decides what they teach us in school.

I wouldn't mind any curriculum so long as reading and writind are taught atleast do that much.

Start small. Contribute in any way you can. Let others know you care for our world. Stand up and ask question, be ready to be punished for demanding accountability from our government.

You must agree then that every political party is exactly what your ideas implicate today. Take an example of PTI they started small and gained momentum so did PPP or ANP or any other party for that matter.

Take any society, its not the individual's or groups that have brought about the progress. But rather the common man's readiness to do self conscious moral policing, civic contribution and readiness to strive for cause of the masses, that will set the ball rolling for the kind of society that we seek.

unfourtunately it is groups or individuals that have been the reason and inspiration of mankind only that turns into movements and then collective ideas that is exactly how a political party runs.

No judiciary or politician can help us.

Well anybody that helps us would be either of them because a commoner has no value only the decision makers matter.

Until we imbibe the sense of social commitment at grass root level, we can go on toying with structural and cosmetic changes and keep on wondering why things are not working.

For my country I think things will only run when the system is allowed to run gain momentum and be the only ray of hope or else as you see on this forum people are waiting that Pakistan is took over by some Patriotic leader and everything is sorted.

Bane, Honesty is a subjective word. I think the very fabric of indian and pakistani society is based on emotion's and need for self survival.

Every society has been based on that principle and people will only begin to understand each other when they have understood themselves. I think if the system is allowed to run on a two party setup sooner or later people will demand change from one side and then vote the other way incase things don't go according to plan I sincerely believe that the whole of Pakistan will fix its own problems only of things are allowed to run.

 

[araz]

Do you suggest a system like America with four executive branches with influence like the army on the government?

My friend
I am suggesting that the judiciary be independant and capable of taking decisions based on the merits of the case rather than political affiliations. We have already lost so many good men to this strife and uncertainty, and the mania of the politicians to have control over everything. I would like the CJ/Supreme court judge to be powerful enough to haul any miscreant, irrepsective of his job/creed and cast/ and pressure group into the court to face the consequences of his illegal act. In short I want the law of the land to be supreme and above all else. How we achieve it is something that will have to evolve keeping in view our own circumstances and ground realities.
WaSalam
Araz

 

[Bane Blade]

Then we should have what qsaark suggests with a jury setup which would work perfectly. Because it will be difficult to intimidate so many various people. As for having views of CJ I would like an opposition CJ rather than a pro government one.

 

[Stumper]

I wouldn't mind any curriculum so long as reading and writind are taught atleast do that much.

Agreed, thats the basic need. But how does that alone shape our generation's thought process. Unless you teach them about Social justice, equality and tolerance, you are just creating animal's that fend for themselves.

You must agree then that every political party is exactly what your ideas implicate today. Take an example of PTI they started small and gained momentum so did PPP or ANP or any other party for that matter.

Maybe you misread me. I was talking about the common man here. A group/party becoming a force will tend to steer away towards self serving agenda.

unfourtunately it is groups or individuals that have been the reason and inspiration of mankind only that turns into movements and then collective ideas that is exactly how a political party runs.

Agree with you here. We all need hero. But then we are hoping that some one will come along. That might be too late. We, in INDIA, are still waiting!!

Well anybody that helps us would be either of them because a commoner has no value only the decision makers matter.

Maybe, as of now ...but accepting this from long term perspective will amount to contradicting your above contention.

be the only ray of hope or else as you see on this forum people are waiting that Pakistan is took over by some Patriotic leader and everything is sorted.

Agree. Its the same in my country.

I sincerely believe that the whole of Pakistan will fix its own problems only of things are allowed to run.

Oh, do you mean , give some breather to the government? Agree mate.

Maybe we are on same page.

 

[Stumper]

I am suggesting that the judiciary be independant and capable of taking decisions based on the merits of the case rather than political affiliations.

I would like the CJ/Supreme court judge to be powerful enough to haul any miscreant, irrepsective of his job/creed and cast/ and pressure group into the court to face the consequences of his illegal act.

In short I want the law of the land to be supreme and above all else.

Sorry, im not familiar with pakistan's judiciary system or this issue of Mr.Chaoudhary. . But what are you talking about here?. The Judicial system is SUPPOSE to administer Justice as per law of Land. IT IS independent and not governed by a political party!. Your system is no different. Whats the pain here?

 

[Bane Blade]

Our thought process is one that is still pretty much being played around by religous extremists because they are willing to teach and the minds of the people are empty willing to accept anything which they are told for specially in the name of Islam.

I think that people are under the impression that a individual or group will bring change but I will tell you that this individual or group will have to either be in the judicial system or the political setup so yes no common man can bring change.

I think the governemnt should be kept in check but the system should be left to make itself

 

[Stumper]

Our thought process is one that is still pretty much being played around by religous extremists because they are willing to teach and the minds of the people are empty willing to accept anything which they are told for specially in the name of Islam.

I think that people are under the impression that a individual or group will bring change but I will tell you that this individual or group will have to either be in the judicial system or the political setup so yes no common man can bring change.

I think the governemnt should be kept in check but the system should be left to make itself

I get your point.

"The best remedy for those who are afraid, lonely or unhappy is to go outside, somewhere where they can be quiet, alone with the heavens, nature and God. Because only then does one feel that all is as it should be and that God wishes to see people happy, amidst the simple beauty of nature." -- Anne Frank

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." --- Blaise Pascal

 

[XYON]

This is a self-defeating question!

In fact it is.

Pakistan is full of many credible personalities who are not politically tarnished or corrupted!

Name one who is not politically tarnished yet qualified for the post of CJ.

A man's character is his best investment in life. By your argument above, we should then let thieves, murderers and corrupt rule us forever & without exception!

These are bookish things. I also believe in them but in the real world things happen very differently. Pakistani society from head to toe is corrupt. One has to accept this as a fact of life even though it is bitter. We have to select or elect a less evil person over a more evil one. That is the best that can be done under the given circumstances. And if this process is allowed to proceed uninterruptedly for a long period of time, eventually, more and more better people will come forward.

Please try to grow-up and enhance your mindset because you and I as Pakistanis deserve better then what we have already!

I am trying to grow up and working on enhancing my mindset. Thanks for pointing out my shortcomings.

Well when we as a nation have ASIF ALI ZARDARI as our President and the likes of NAWAZ SHARIF in the opposition, the quality bar is not that high and why should we expect any better at this time from the standard of our Judicial System?? Guess we as a nation have to make-do with what we have for now only to hope that it gets better then this in the near future!

 

[qsaark]

Well when we as a nation have ASIF ALI ZARDARI as our President and the likes of NAWAZ SHARIF in the opposition, the quality bar is not that high and why should we expect any better at this time from the standard of our Judicial System?? Guess we as a nation have to make-do with what we have for now only to hope that it gets better then this in the near future!

Quality bar always remains like this in western-type democracy. US had a president like George Bush and Clinton and alike in the opposition. How we feel about our politicians, Americans think the same way about their politicians. Politicians are politicians, they may have different faces but they are all the same every where. I don’t really understand your grudges against the CJ. What exactly is the problem you see with him?

 

[XYON]

Quality bar always remains like this in western-type democracy. US had a president like George Bush and Clinton and alike in the opposition. How we feel about our politicians, Americans think the same way about their politicians. Politicians are politicians, they may have different faces but they are all the same every where. I don’t really understand your grudges against the CJ. What exactly is the problem you see with him?

My 'grudge' against the CJ is the same as it is with the likes of Asif Ali Zardari and Nawaz Sharif. Chronic rascals cannot be atoned of their past sins just because they are forced to have a 'hallow' on their head in the present!

And as far as your US example goes, Bush's lowering of the quality bar most certainly resulted in the success of the likes of Barack Obama. So hoping against hope, I have no choice but to get along with the garbage at hand!

 

[Bane Blade]

Well when we as a nation have ASIF ALI ZARDARI as our President and the likes of NAWAZ SHARIF in the opposition, the quality bar is not that high and why should we expect any better at this time from the standard of our Judicial System?? Guess we as a nation have to make-do with what we have for now only to hope that it gets better then this in the near future!

You know just because a cheif justice has made a ruling against a kidnapping killing dictator doesn't make him corrupt and it will only be fair to have cases open against the dictator so that even he is denied a reentry into politics.

 

[XYON]

You know just because a cheif justice has made a ruling against a kidnapping killing dictator doesn't make him corrupt and it will only be fair to have cases open against the dictator so that even he is denied a reentry into politics.

No it does not, I agree!

However, what makes him a rascal in my eyes is his track record to the elevation of CJ and his past deeds of self-benefit, nepotism and favoritism that makes him equally as corrupt as anyone else.

So if you talk about 'ehtesaab', then lets not be selective because of our likes and dislikes and rake in all sinners (dictators, politicians, CJ's and bureaucrats alike) for their past and present deeds! But that my friends requires a revolution like Iran and people hanging with poles with nooses around their snapped necks! Are you ready for such and ehtesaab Mr. Bane Blade?

 

[Bane Blade]

However, what makes him a rascal in my eyes is his track record to the elevation of CJ and his past deeds of self-benefit, nepotism and favoritism that makes him equally as corrupt as anyone else.

The CJ is one of opposition to the government or atleast that is how I see it in the past we have seen CJ's that were quite a few of the time pro government so atleast it is a step in the right direction he rose to power through the courts a system that is quite similar to alot of countries around the world so I think we can't really tread those lines however if such allegations were to be levelled against him I am sure that Attorney general who fought for the government against CJ would have bought them up.

So if you talk about 'ehtesaab', then lets not be selective because of our likes and dislikes and rake in all sinners (dictators, politicians, CJ's and bureaucrats alike) for their past and present deeds! But that my friends requires a revolution like Iran and people hanging with poles with nooses around their snapped necks! Are you ready for such and ehtesaab Mr. Bane Blade?

Well the return of a CJ is a significant step for our nation for a lot of the times people are removed from their post and the media stays shun about it. What I do think though is the fact that if all the current politicians are destroyed our country will cease to exist because when you are in power apart from good skills you need good contacts and good relations with other countries if any one kills our politicians no one will shake hands with him causing more laoss than good.

 

[ejaz007]

The crisis or should I say more than one crisis has begun:

Musharraf charged with treason in petition filed with SC

LAHORE: An advocate on Tuesday filed a petition with the Supreme Court charging former president Pervez Musharraf with ‘high treason’ and seeking his trial under Article 6 of the Constitution. The advocate, Zahid Hussain Malik, has also asked the court to direct the government not to allow Musharraf to ‘escape’ from the country. The petitioner’s lawyer said that Musharraf’s actions of November 3, 2007 were tantamount to subversion of the constitution as outlined in Article 6. The imposition of emergency led to the sacking of the entire superior judiciary, he said. He requested that the federal government -- through the defence secretary – be ordered to proceed against Musharraf in accordance with the provisions of Article 6 read with the High Treason Act of 1973, and also called for his trial by a courts martial under the Pakistan Army Act. He also called for punishment for those who were ‘guilty’ of collaborating with Musharraf. staff report

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