Reducing the Role of Political Islam

[xenia]

Sharia of which sect? lol

There are somethings in Sharia which are not compatible with the times in which we are living & now read the article again...

for instance??
ofcourse i ma not talking about the mullah clad islam but if u get the progressive spirit of islam its definitely compatible with our times..

 

[kugga]

you can in no way prove that as a fact, writer wanted to say in a way that we need to restrict the role of religion in State matters by shaping the opinion that religion itself is a personal matter & must not have say in the matters of state

I tell you what... you in no way can disprove this statement to me, it's all about agreeing or not agreeing... you follow the science .. the science of matter, I follow the science of existing and not existing, something that exists cannot necessarily be proven by science, I know I cannot even prove to you that GOD exists coz all my logics are goona be illogical for you ...

You are gonna say My GOD lied with me (Nauzubillah) but in no way you can prove your statement right to me...

It's all about agreeing or not agreeing... Facts are facts for someone if he agrees with them and facts are not facts for someone if he does not agree with them...

 

[greatsequence]

The next logical step is to argue that if Islam, as a religion, wanted to become political and exercise control in this world, then it loses its “divine immunity” and will be judged by human laws. This should be seen as breach of a contractual agreement, because the understanding was that God’s laws will apply in the Kingdom of God, but human laws will apply in the kingdom of human beings. If Islam wants to have influence in “our world”, then it will be judged according to “our” laws and it will be responsible and accountable to our laws just as we will be responsible to God’s laws once we enter His kingdom.

The core of the article is based on a wrongl logic that is My kingdom and Gods Kingdom. For a Muslim all the Kingdoms are Gods Kingdoms.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

I tell you what... you in no way can disprove this statement to me, it's all about agreeing or not agreeing... you follow the science .. the science of matter, I follow the science of existing and not existing, something that exists cannot necessarily be proven by science, I know I cannot even prove to you that GOD exists coz all my logics are goona be illogical for you ...

Of course i cannot disprove that there's some one up there in the sky but you can't prove either (lets not go there)

You are gonna say My GOD lied with me (Nauzubillah) but in no way you can prove your statement right to me...

People lie to themselves

It's all about agreeing or not agreeing... Facts are facts for someone if he agrees with them and facts are not facts for someone if he does not agree with them...

Lets not go into existence of a deity, For the moment I am assuming he exists & we cannot ignore the influence religion has on people, now back to topic

 

[WAQAS119]

for instance??
ofcourse i ma not talking about the mullah clad islam but if u get the progressive spirit of islam its definitely compatible with our times..

'Spirit' this is the main world! Laws should be changed with the time and this is the spirit of Islam! Rather than following those Hippocratic mullahs' conservative mindset.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

for instance??
ofcourse i ma not talking about the mullah clad islam but if u get the progressive spirit of islam its definitely compatible with our times..

where the hell is progressive Islamic mindset been preached? are we taught that early secular ideas came from Ibn Rushd, NO!



People of Pakistan are just too sensitive to the minute things about their religion & religion becomes a point of 'madness' & overshadows the judgment...

 

[roach]

A huge problem with extracting laws from religious texts is that religious text is deliberately vague. It allows people who proclaim themselves knowledgeable in these matters to interpret these texts in whatever way their ideas lean.

I don't think that anyone will disagree that the most blood has been split on this earth in the name of GOD down the ages.

Another useful tool for the manipulators of religion is the proclamation that God's word (i.e., their version of it) cannot be challenged. It is like a mother making up stories of the Bogeyman to make sure the child eats her dinner- to someone grown-up and logical, it is laughable but the child is struck by terror. this is Blasphemy, the word mostly given to the logical, and very human, act of Questioning and Finding Out Answers for Yourself

So if humans can't agree(and never will agree)on Who God is, and what His Words are to Us, then why not make laws based on common sense and the wisdom accumulated by mankind over the ages and follow these laws? A modern legal system with Judges and Jury, competent people from among us, is better than any flawed man's version of God's rules.

 

[xenia]

where the hell is progressive Islamic mindset been preached? are we taught that early secular ideas came from Ibn Rushd, NO!

it is being breached..although i must say its not deep-rooted yet..we are talking about progressive islam n u r mixing it with secularism..
anything thats incompatible with ur version is outdated i presume

People of Pakistan are just too sensitive to the minute things about their religion & religion becomes a point of 'madness' & overshadows the judgment...

religion is always a sensitive issue..be it islam or any other religion..n religion doesnt become madness (again islam n all others)..it is the mad people who take it to unbound limits..

 

[xenia]

'Spirit' this is the main world! Laws should be changed with the time and this is the spirit of Islam! Rather than following those Hippocratic mullahs' conservative mindset.

we must re-open the doors of ijtihad closed in 12th cent..

 

[Spring Onion]

A modern legal system with Judges and Jury, competent people from among us, is better than any flawed man's version of God's rules.

The Indian legal system with judges and Jury claims to represent Secularism and not following religious texts still the verdict in Babri Mosque was decided on Hindu faith.


The point to bring this in, is that you need to check almost all Justice systems and before bashing any specific religion you need to check what parts of a system are linked to religion/rituals and what are corresponding to the administration of political system.


This term "political" Islam in itself a flawed one coined to sail boats of another kind of religiously political mindset


Its like two extremes i.e Religious extremism and anti-Religious extremism

Both are destructive

 

[greatsequence]

Founder's of the nation never named it so....

Pakistan Assembly unanimously did and this what Pakistan is now and this what the aspiration of majority of pakistanis are today. Failure of Musharaf trying to change the name is an evidence.

there's a reason why i told you to read it again, let me quote it here

I did it in the first place you don't need to tell me again and again. As I said the article is based on a wrong logic. Trying to say to muslims this land is mine not God's is never going to work in Pakistan or I must say in most of Islamic countries.

 

[roach]

The Indian legal system with judges and Jury claims to represent Secularism and not following religious texts still the verdict in Babri Mosque was decided on Hindu faith.


The point to bring this in, is that you need to check almost all Justice systems and before bashing any specific religion you need to check what parts of a system are linked to religion/rituals and what are corresponding to the administration of political system.


This term "political" Islam in itself a flawed one coined to sail boats of another kind of religiously political mindset


Its like two extremes i.e Religious extremism and anti-Religious extremism

Both are destructive

Ha, irony- I pressed the 'Thank' button when it was supposed to be the 'Quote'

Wondering where you inferred that i was 'Bashing' any religion.

Wait until the Supreme court has decided to make a judgment on the Indian legal system, Jana.

I don't think 'Political Islam' or 'Political Hinduism' is a flawed term- it signifies an aim to achieve power through God's word- in India, the closest thing would be the BJP's rise while piggybacking on the Babri Masjid. Do you consider that 'Political Hinduism'?

 

[Spring Onion]

Ha, irony- I pressed the 'Thank' button when it was supposed to be the 'Quote'

Wondering where you inferred that i was 'Bashing' any religion.

Wait until the Supreme court has decided to make a judgment on the Indian legal system, Jana.

I don't think 'Political Islam' or 'Political Hinduism' is a flawed term- it signifies an aim to achieve power through God's word- in India, the closest thing would be the BJP's rise while piggybacking on the Babri Masjid. Do you consider that 'Political Hinduism'?

dont worry i will thank you in return to settle the score

2. NO i was not blaming you for bashing any religion it was a general term.

3. in case of Babri Mosque verdict well even a lower court in secular country was NOT suppose to tilt towards religion for deciding the case.

3. I dont believe in these terms Political Islam Political Hinduism or Political Christianity. This is a loose term to create confusion between administrative system and religious rituals by equating these which in my view is not the case.


4. I dont know about Hinduism or Christianity IF they offer any administrative system but as far as Islam is concerned there is a model laying out governance system which is totally an administrative matter and all steps are taken on basis of certain earthly rules not on the call of divine voice

 

[roach]

but as far as Islam is concerned there is a model laying out governance system which is totally an administrative matter and all steps are taken on basis of certain earthly rules not on the call of divine voice

Are there any examples of this system being successfully implemented in creating a model administration?

 

[Spring Onion]

Are there any examples of this system being successfully implemented in creating a model administration?

Currently nowhere this system is implemented atleast not in any Muslim country it has ever been implemented.

But Yes if you go back then in the time of Hazhrat Omar (RA) it was quite successfully implemented covering almost all sectors ranging from strategic policies to the defence policies and governance in almost all areas under his rule.

Some aspects of system during his period have also been adopted by some current day western country but i am not sure i have to verify it before naming the country.