Raymond Davis Case: Developing Story

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Good point, but then, how far can Pakistan push the US over one man because of all these other important links?

That will depend upon the GoP. I think most Pakistanis would argue 'screw the aid and screw cooperation with the US', and have been for a while.

From an economic POV, the only reason Pakistan needs US/IMF aid is because the government refuses to enact fiscal reforms, especially tax base reforms, that would alleviate the resource crunch significantly, though they would cause some short term inflationary impact.

Will the US come to a similar conclusion with respect to its reliance on Pakistani support in the War in Afghanistan, and its desire to not see Pakistan destabilized to the point where its nuclear arsenal/materials are at risk?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I notice you keep going back to what so called legal experts say. And completly ignore what your own interior minister (who's department is responsible for such determinations) says.

Very few people put stock in what Rehman Malik has to say now, given his utter incompetence, flip flopping and repeated down right incorrect statements.

 

[A1Kaid]

Whether he is guilty or not - If he has diplomatic immunity then we will have to release him - It's sad but we have to follow International Rules otherwise our diplomats will receive similar treatment.

"Our" diplomats aren't going around killing people.

 

[Thomas]

Raymond Davis isn't his real name - but he presented a visa indicating that was his identity - that is fraud and deceit, on part of Davis and on the part of the US government if they knowingly abetted this.

Why should he enjoy any diplomatic rights regardless of what his passport or visa are? States posting diplomats to other nations should act honestly and above board - posting officials with fraudulent documents and identities is a violation of trust and laws with the host nation.

It is common practice with Governments around the world to post people to their embassies and not use their real names. Generally these people work with intelligence agencies. In Pakistan because of the security situation I can see the U.S. Government allowing its security contractors to use an alias. Do you not think that the ISI agents in India and other places do not do the same?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

It is common practice with Governments around the world to post people to their embassies and not use their real names. Generally these people work with intelligence agencies. In Pakistan because of the security situation I can see the U.S. Government allowing its security contractors to use an alias. Do you not think that the ISI agents in India and other places do not do the same?

Then they are spies, not diplomats ...

And outside of spies, I see no point in falsifying the identity of embassy/consular staff - what advantage can you point out?

 

[logic]

It is common practice with Governments around the world to post people to their embassies and not use their real names. Generally these people work with intelligence agencies. In Pakistan because of the security situation I can see the U.S. Government allowing its security contractors to use an alias. Do you not think that the ISI agents in India and other places do not do the same?

But then they do not claim immunity either.

This idea is total absurd that you can go round killing people and then when you are arrested you present your BLUE PETER BADGE (Get out of jail card).

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

It is common practice with Governments around the world to post people to their embassies and not use their real names. Generally these people work with intelligence agencies. In Pakistan because of the security situation I can see the U.S. Government allowing its security contractors to use an alias. Do you not think that the ISI agents in India and other places do not do the same?

BTW, I believe you are incorrect when you argue that it is 'common practice' because false identities would make background checks (by host governments) on individuals applying for visas irrelevant. Pakistani visas for embassy/consular staff are issued after background checks and clearance from the relevant agencies, so there is indeed an expectation that the identities will not be fraudulent.

 

[Thomas]

Then they are spies, not diplomats ...

And outside of spies, I see no point in falsifying the identity of embassy/consular staff - what advantage can you point out?

Being targeted for terrorism by extremists outside of Pakistan. The U.S. is a pretty open society when it comes to information. It is not hard to track someone down if you know their real name. Give me someone’s name here in the U.S. and within 5 min's I can most likely tell you their addresses for the last 10+ years all their Phone numbers (even if unlisted). And possibly a Google street view picture of their current house.

 

[Thomas]

But then they do not claim immunity either.

actually they do, plenty of precedent for that. Doing a quick Google search will confirm it.

 

[A1Kaid]

Americans would start wondering how are we giving billions of dollars to Pakistan, the nation who does not respect the international law.

THose K-L funds would stop!

Davis imprisoned or 7.5 billions?
What is good for GOP?

Give it a rest, Americans are wondering about their personal matters not international affairs nor laws.

As far as countries following international law US has been a big violator of international law in recent history; along with Israel (one of the highest violators of international law and one of the largest recipient of US aid).

K-L funds stopping? No one really gives a damn and its effectiveness and contribution to Pakistan's economic livelihood is overestimated.

 

[American Eagle]

The core issue remains the fact that Mr. Davis is under a US Diplomatic Passport with valid Pakistani Foreign Office VISA thereon, otherwise he could not//would not have been able to be in country there in Pakistan.

That two robbers failed in an armed stick up of Raymond Davis, who for fear of his life and limb, fought back is completely ignored by the writing public here in the main it seems.

There is a tired old joke which best describes some on this site and their "blather." An American victum is buried in a hole up to his neck, cannot move arms or legs, these are buried under ground. A group of six or so Pakistanis are circling the buried up to his neck American, hitting him all over parts of his only exposed part, his head. Whack, thump, whack. Then one "brave" Pakistani bends down close to the buried up to his neck American and says in his face: You are a vile person and we will 'get even' with you...at which point the buried American reaches his head forward and bites the Pakistani's ear off. The wounded Pakistani pulls back in a stream of blood and pain and he and his five bully Pakistani thugs shout: "Fight fair American!"

Nothing has changed on behalf of the US facts per our US Ambassador and the US Department of State regarding the fact that Ramond Davis has Diplomatic Immunity.

Some folks on this thread, largely from outside Pakistan, safe in overseas Western style democracy locations, are visibly bent on trying to "hang" Mr. Davis to satisfy what in fact is a tiny crowd of tire burners in Lahore. They constitute the fictional ring of Pakistanis circling and beating up a buried up to his neck Raymond Davis, who both has Diplomatic Immunity and who only defended himself from two armed robbers who threatened his life and limb in their failed stick up attempt.

 

[ashok321]

Give it a rest, Americans are wondering about their personal matters not international affairs nor laws.

As far as countries following international law US has been a big violator of international law in recent history; along with Israel (one of the highest violators of international law and one of the largest recipient of US aid).

K-L funds stopping? No one really gives a damn and their effectiveness and contribution to Pakistan's economic livelihood are overestimated.

Why does not Pakistan openly stop recieving K-L funds ? This was the tag line after all of Kerry initially and then Hillary clinton.....

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Being targeted for terrorism by extremists outside of Pakistan. The U.S. is a pretty open society when it comes to information. It is not hard to track someone down if you know their real name. Give me someone’s name here in the U.S. and within 5 min's I can most likely tell you their addresses for the last 10+ years all their Phone numbers (even if unlisted). And possibly a Google street view picture of their current house.

Yet almost all senior level diplomats and consular staff (Ambassadors, consul-generals etc.) in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iraq have not used 'false' identities - and these are individuals who are high profile and in the press frequently.

If anything, these people (or their families) would be the ones at highest risk, and would, under your argument, have seen repeated attacks against them and/or their families. But that is not the case, and these people continue to use their real names, rather than fraudulent identities.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The core issue remains the fact that Mr. Davis is under a US Diplomatic Passport with valid Pakistani Foreign Office VISA thereon, otherwise he could not//would not have been able to be in country there in Pakistan.

Yet to be established by the courts.

That two robbers failed in an armed stick up of Raymond Davis, who for fear of his life and limb, fought back is completely ignored by the writing public here in the main it seems.

Yet to be established by the courts.

There is a tired old joke which best describes some on this site and their "blather." An American victum is buried in a hole up to his neck, cannot move arms or legs, these are buried under ground. A group of six or so Pakistanis are circling the buried up to his neck American, hitting him all over parts of his only exposed part, his head. Whack, thump, whack. Then one "brave" Pakistani bends down close to the buried up to his neck American and says in his face: You are a vile person and we will 'get even' with you...at which point the buried American reaches his head forward and bites the Pakistani's ear off. The wounded Pakistani pulls back in a stream of blood and pain and he and his five bully Pakistani thugs shout: "Fight fair American!"

Nonsensical and irrelevant blather.

Nothing has changed on behalf of the US facts per our US Ambassador and the US Department of State regarding the fact that Ramond Davis has Diplomatic Immunity.

They have admitted that RD was not issued a diplomatic visa. The case now rests on the interpretation of the relevant conventions governing diplomatic immunity with respect to RD's actual job position and his actions in the concerned event.

Some folks on this thread, largely from outside Pakistan, safe in overseas Western style democracy locations, are visibly bent on trying to "hang" Mr. Davis to satisfy what in fact is a tiny crowd of tire burners in Lahore. They constitute the fictional ring of Pakistanis circling and beating up a buried up to his neck Raymond Davis, who both has Diplomatic Immunity and who only defended himself from two armed robbers who threatened his life and limb in their failed stick up attempt.

I can't read minds, on my part I would like the courts to determine RD's immunity based on his actual job at the embassy/consulate, and take into account the fact that he potentially used a fraudulent identity and passport to obtain a visa and entry to Pakistan. I would like the courts to perform their jobs without the US government forcing the GoP to give RD a 'get out of jail free card' when he many not in fact deserve it.

 

[A1Kaid]

The core issue remains the fact that Mr. Davis is under a US Diplomatic Passport with valid Pakistani Foreign Office VISA thereon, otherwise he could not//would not have been able to be in country there in Pakistan.

That two robbers failed in an armed stick up of Raymond Davis, who for fear of his life and limb, fought back is completely ignored by the writing public here in the main it seems.

There is a tired old joke which best describes some on this site and their "blather." An American victum is buried in a hole up to his neck, cannot move arms or legs, these are buried under ground. A group of six or so Pakistanis are circling the buried up to his neck American, hitting him all over parts of his only exposed part, his head. Whack, thump, whack. Then one "brave" Pakistani bends down close to the buried up to his neck American and says in his face: You are a vile person and we will 'get even' with you...at which point the buried American reaches his head forward and bites the Pakistani's ear off. The wounded Pakistani pulls back in a stream of blood and pain and he and his five bully Pakistani thugs shout: "Fight fair American!"

Nothing has changed on behalf of the US facts per our US Ambassador and the US Department of State regarding the fact that Ramond Davis has Diplomatic Immunity.

Some folks on this thread, largely from outside Pakistan, safe in overseas Western style democracy locations, are visibly bent on trying to "hang" Mr. Davis to satisfy what in fact is a tiny crowd of tire burners in Lahore. They constitute the fictional ring of Pakistanis circling and beating up a buried up to his neck Raymond Davis, who both has Diplomatic Immunity and who only defended himself from two armed robbers who threatened his life and limb in their failed stick up attempt.

"tired old joke"


How tired is this joke?

Personally I think your just BSing, but if true then perhaps this very tired and long bs joke with little wit and intelligence runs rampant with your ilk and type, perhaps rampant among geopolitical institutions in US. Perhaps if you use this "joke" as a point to reflect on this situation then maybe it's not really a "joke" but an actual belief.


As far as Pakistan's relationship with America goes, who needs enemies when you have friends like this.


To put it simply Pakistani judiciary must investigate this incident and execute the law.