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Raymond Davis Case: Developing Story

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Davis runs his own company-Hyperion Protective Consultants, LLC, a company that provides "loss and risk management professionals."

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He is a "Technical Adviser"-
Sources Identify 'Technical Adviser' With Special Forces Experience Involved in Apparent Self-Defense Killing

By providing the website folks can read it for themselves to see the range of services Mr. Davis's company Hyperion Protective Consultans, offers, which are wide and varied, none of which uses the terminology "killing" which again is another attempt here to stir folks up when robbers conceivably raising money to help fund Taliban and al Qaida efforts are found to have robbed a native Paksitani same day and before they tried, but failed, to rob Mr. Davis.

Here is the rage of Hyperions services for those who want a simple read without looking anything up:

What we offer to any business large or small alike,
are the absolute essentials.

All established businesses in the U.S are regulated by government
agencies to ensure that companies are compliant with the laws of the
nation. However, most companies are preoccupied with the tasks of
their businesses, which is expected. We here at Hyperion understand
this and seek to provide the expertises that are needed to ensure
compliance. This allows companies to do what it is they do best.

Our concepts are precise, accurate, and affordable to
any business. We are proud to announce additional
services to our customers, they are as follows:

Evaluation and modification of your entire Data Network.
We will gladly augment your existing networks to increase
protection from outside entities. Our staff will also suggest
faster and more efficient system designs, tailored to needs of
the client.


In the area of Human Resources we are proud to announce
that we now offer back ground checks for your potential
employees. These checks are Federal, local, or both, suiting
your specific needs.


We have developed new protocols to evaluate business and
real estate before acquisition. The "Due Diligence" Phase
of a sale should be professionally conducted by a team of
qualified individuals to ensure as little risk to the buyer, as
possible. The purchase of a company and/or its assets,
requires a speedy yet thorough evaluation that the sale
encompasses, allow us to provide you with this service. Our
research team will sift through all relative data to ensure
that the buyer is receiving what they purchase. Contact us
for all the information on this service, this process is crucial
to asset or business purchases.


We here at Hyperion pride ourselves on the knowledge
that we provide new and affordable ways to satisfy the
needs of our customers. Our concepts and
methodology has been perfected over the years, leaving
the best service this market has to offer. How, you may
ask do we accomplish such an extravagant boast, allow
me to explain!!!!!!

We have developed ways that allow companies to take over their own security and
compliance. The only outsourcing required is that of our company which will
evaluate your company's assets, procedures, and protocols. Through painstaking
research all relevant data and all governing regulations are studied; with this
information we will build an operation plan to secure every aspect of your
business. The cost of the evaluation is the most competitive in this market, to date.
The key to our success has been offer the "extras" after the initial evaluation. Our
efforts have greatly expanded the areas of services and products, we now offer. Most
of these efforts were motivated by customer requests. We have gladly produced a
new product line centered in the areas of Surveillance, Surveillance, Alarms,
Workplace Safety and Compliance. See our product pages for more information.
We do not specialize in product sales. However our efforts are to offer better pricing
to assist our clients, "convenience" being our focus.

How can the overall protection of my company assets
increase my bottom line?

Proprietor or In House Security

This is the question that all businesses should ask, and we are the answer!
Security in general is being out-sources to outside entities which have their on
bottom line and agenda. This can be dangerous or in many cases ineffective
because these companies in general do not have the clients interest in mind. For
this reason proprietary or in-house security is a better option due to cost and legal
liabilities which will still reside with the business contracting the service. This is
of no real benefit to the company itself. If professionally drafted post orders and
security personnel can be easily integrated in to the existing workplace of any
company large enough to require security personnel. This will allow that
company the flexible to assign duties that are specifically tailored to their
particular needs.

It is more important that a company has the peace of mind, knowing these are
their employees. We provide the post-orders or procedures and training if required.
The personnel are hired as a an employee by the costumer, therefore under the
direct guidance of the company and no other entities. These are the advantages
control, trust, and savings. Could there be a easier way to increase your bottom
line? Let us show your company the way through the use of our total business
and property assessment. This one time fee for the evaluation and assessment
report(based on standard hourly rate). All other services and products are
optional. The flexibility is yours be as specific or broad as you prefer.

"Contract Loss Prevention"

Hyperion has developed additional ways to staff Clients. Loss Prevention
Specialist can be contracted to a Client. Clients may obtain security for facility,
properties and all other assets by contracted said services from Hyperion.
Professional Loss Prevention Specialist are recruited and trained by Hyperion and
placed with Clients requiring security through Loss Prevention Services. Clients
are billed per Hour for said services. Confidentiality agreements are implemented
for the protection of the Client. All personnel are scrutinized closely to obtain the
best and most qualified professionals this market has to offer!
 
Which can go both ways..
Was this guy really trained to tell the situation on the ground apart?
when to take action.. or was he trigger happy from the start?
The only way to acertain that if for a proper investigation to follow.
being proper gentlemen.. never being robbers doesnt mean that you cant decide one day to shoot an American because of your beliefs.
at the same time, it doesnt mean that if the American felt he was being targeted because of seeing a gun.. he has the right to go chuck norris on anybody..
However, the driver of the Toyota 4by is definitely guilty of 1st degree murder and rash driving. And should be locked up.. and the embassy should be ahead on that. It is not excusable.
 
Which can go both ways..
Was this guy really trained to tell the situation on the ground apart?
when to take action.. or was he trigger happy from the start?
The only way to acertain that if for a proper investigation to follow.
being proper gentlemen.. never being robbers doesnt mean that you cant decide one day to shoot an American because of your beliefs.
at the same time, it doesnt mean that if the American felt he was being targeted because of seeing a gun.. he has the right to go chuck norris on anybody..
However, the driver of the Toyota 4by is definitely guilty of 1st degree murder and rash driving. And should be locked up.. and the embassy should be ahead on that. It is not excusable.
Yeah the embassy's reluctance to hand him over further deepens the situation. That Pakistani does not have immunity and he may hold some secrets that may be unveiled by him during the investigation.
 
Under US laws, for analogy only, a person driving in heavy traffic when someone on a motor bike darts in front of and into their vehicle in traffic, resulting in a death, "may" have committed unintended vehicular homicide. This would be defined in a calm, objective, peaceful US court based on the facts discernable, not determined by a bunch of overseas Pakistanis writing from Russia, Canada, and elsewhere saying "hang the murderer, calling a Paksitani driver a murderer is absurd here."

People are killed the world over in automobile and motor cycle wrecks every day, 24/7. Not a good thing but not a basis to call a Pakistani driver a "murderer" when trying to make something out of a crowded traffic congested scene of an attempted robbery shooting, where the crowd as is typical in a third world setting is boiling around without knowing any hard facts merely rubber necking and getting in the way.

You would do better to look for folks "to hang" who were behind the terrorist bombing in Lahore the day before this robbery event and it's same day predecessor robbery event.

By the way, I suggest the Moderators, you, be paid 100% more. You make as much as I do on this site, a big 0. But, your volunteerism is appreciated at least by me, as I have done much volunteer work in my long lifetime of 71 years of living.

Volunteerism pays you via "psychic income" the satisfaction that you feel you have done more good than harm in your role as a Moderator.

My hat is off to the two new Moderators on this site. I for one appreciate your good efforts and volunteer, unpaid work on everyone's behalf here.
 
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PS - I was referred to on one of many negative posts here today as "retired US Army." If folks bothered to read my postings, easily found under AMERICAN EAGLE, you would find that I am retired USAF Reserve. Thirty one years (6 active duty USAF, including 2 years in Pakistan) and 25 in the USAF Reserve at the Joint Chiefs of staff (field grade, 06 and 07 level), including around 8 years on the Chief of Staff-staff, as a reservist Assistant Chief of Staff in a part time, drilling reservist sense, at HQ US Special Operations Command in Florida.

My time in Pakistan included daily seeing dead and dying poor folks on the sidewalks in parts of Karachi, where people walked around or stepped over them without stopping to render help or assistance. Many had no clothes on their back and died exposed to the elements. Very tragic memories burned into my memory for the rest of my life.
 
PS - I was referred to on one of many negative posts here today as "retired US Army." If folks bothered to read my postings, easily found under AMERICAN EAGLE, you would find that I am retired USAF Reserve. Thirty one years (6 active duty USAF, including 2 years in Pakistan) and 25 in the USAF Reserve at the Joint Chiefs of staff (field grade, 06 and 07 level), including around 8 years on the Chief of Staff-staff, as a reservist Assistant Chief of Staff in a part time, drilling reservist sense, at HQ US Special Operations Command in Florida.

My time in Pakistan included daily seeing dead and dying poor folks on the sidewalks in parts of Karachi, where people walked around or stepped over them without stopping to render help or assistance. Many had no clothes on their back and died exposed to the elements. Very tragic memories burned into my memory for the rest of my life.

I think your experience & memories are enough to realize yourself that US citizen took wrong action.
 
Here are points that can go as evidence against Davis from all I've read so far:
-He had some military experience according to police.

-He was carrying a weapon illegally.

-He was able to communicate in Urdu

-He has been in Pakistan only ten days prior to the incident.

-He tried to escape the scene and those perusing him.

Some evidence going in Davis's favor:
-The people he killed were suspected robbers

-He was passing through an area where crime is frequent.

Let the police and court take all these points into consideration and give him a fair trial.
 
Under US laws, for analogy only, a person driving in heavy traffic when someone on a motor bike darts in front of and into their vehicle in traffic, resulting in a death, "may" have committed unintended vehicular homicide. This would be defined in a calm, objective, peaceful US court based on the facts discernable, not determined by a bunch of overseas Pakistanis writing from Russia, Canada, and elsewhere saying "hang the murderer, calling a Paksitani driver a murderer is absurd here."

People are killed the world over in automobile and motor cycle wrecks every day, 24/7. Not a good thing but not a basis to call a Pakistani driver a "murderer" when trying to make something out of a crowded traffic congested scene of an attempted robbery shooting, where the crowd as is typical in a third world setting is boiling around with knowing any hard facts merely rubber necking and getting in the way.

You would do better to look for folks "to hang" who were behind the terrorist bombing in Lahore the day before this robbery event and it's same day predecessor robbery event.

By the way, I suggest the Moderators, you, be paid 100% more. You make as much as I do on this site, a big 0. But, your volunteerism is appreciated at least by me, as I have done much volunteer work in my long lifetime of 71 years of living.

Volunteerism pays you via "psychic income" the satisfaction that you feel you have done more good than harm in your role as a Moderator.

My hat is off to the two new Moderators on this site. I for one appreciate your good efforts and volunteer, unpaid work on everyone's behalf here.
Btw, I read somewhere Davis was on a visit visa...

What is the Modus Operandi of declaring one a diplomat into the country? Is there a diplomatic visa? The determination of whether or not he has immunity can easily be done by checking if he entered Pakistan as a diplomat or as a technician.

Going through scores of news blurbs on this, I feel there is no investigation going on, the only thing they are doing is determining whether to keep him or release him and making sure their behinds are covered in the process.

I may be wrong but the FO passed the buck onto the IM and then the IM back to the FO. Go figure... Finally it seems like Rehman Malik found the best way out, pass it to the Parliament

Given the circumstances its the best thing to do, for both Pakistan and Davis. More eyeballs on the case, less chance of mishandling. Not to mention, there are reports, General Kayani himself has butted in and asked Malik to investigate upon his diplomatic and military links. Not confirmed obviously, this is just rumorville.

In any case, doesn't seem like he will be released any time soon.

Anyway, here's something found about what I was saying earlier:

Gratis Visa of diplomats/non-diplomats assigned to the foreign missions and expatriate staff of UN agencies working in Pakistan and their families are granted by the Ministry of Interior on the recommendations of Ministry of Foreign Affairs

Visa to domestic servants of diplomats is issued free of charge, on the principle of reciprocity.

All foreign missions are required to furnish their applications for visa extension, well before the expiry of their visas, through the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Visa extension authorization will be sent to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs for onward transmission to the foreign mission concerned

So definitely there's a diplomatic stamping upon arrival.

Anyway, Pakistanis seem to be willing bend the rules as much as they can, if Davis is a spy or an agent gone rogue and helping the terrorists, then Pakistanis would hold this over the heads of Americans for at least the next 10 years.
 
I think your experience & memories are enough to realize yourself that US citizen took wrong action.
Key words are 'circumstances' and 'personal psychology'.

This is not the first time that somebody tried to resist attempts of robbery. In many cases, robbers kill their targets upon resistance.

If those two guys were indeed robbers (FIR filed against them already), then we cannot say that reaction of Davis was out of proportion.

-He had some military experience according to police.
Not a valid point. Having military experience is not a bad thing.

-He was carrying a weapon illegally.
Valid point - Check 1

-He was able to communicate in Urdu
So? Foreigners cannot learn our language?

-He has been in Pakistan only ten days prior to the incident.
Again! This is not a valid point at all. Things can go wrong at any moment.

-He tried to escape the scene and those perusing him.
Natural reaction of any panicked person.

Some evidence going in Davis's favor:
-The people he killed were suspected robbers

-He was passing through an area where crime is frequent.

Let the police and court take all these points into consideration and give him a fair trial.
Agree here. However, crimes can happen in any place.
 
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Here are points that can go as evidence against Davis from all I've read so far:
-He had some military experience according to police.

-He was carrying a weapon illegally.

-He was able to communicate in Urdu

-He has been in Pakistan only ten days prior to the incident.

-He tried to escape the scene and those perusing him.

Some evidence going in Davis's favor:
-The people he killed were suspected robbers

-He was passing through an area where crime is frequent.

Let the police and court take all these points into consideration and give him a fair trial.

There is no clear evidence that suspects were robbers and if they were robber what use of 4 wireless sets, found from them?

What do you mean by area? crime may be happened everywhere, there is no specification of possible crime's place & time.

Not agree with your evidences:no:
 
Under US laws, for analogy only, a person driving in heavy traffic when someone on a motor bike darts in front of and into their vehicle in traffic, resulting in a death, "may" have committed unintended vehicular homicide. This would be defined in a calm, objective, peaceful US court based on the facts discernable, not determined by a bunch of overseas Pakistanis writing from Russia, Canada, and elsewhere saying "hang the murderer, calling a Paksitani driver a murderer is absurd here."

People are killed the world over in automobile and motor cycle wrecks every day, 24/7. Not a good thing but not a basis to call a Pakistani driver a "murderer" when trying to make something out of a crowded traffic congested scene of an attempted robbery shooting, where the crowd as is typical in a third world setting is boiling around with knowing any hard facts merely rubber necking and getting in the way.

You would do better to look for folks "to hang" who were behind the terrorist bombing in Lahore the day before this robbery event and it's same day predecessor robbery event.

By the way, I suggest the Moderators, you, be paid 100% more. You make as much as I do on this site, a big 0. But, your volunteerism is appreciated at least by me, as I have done much volunteer work in my long lifetime of 71 years of living.

Volunteerism pays you via "psychic income" the satisfaction that you feel you have done more good than harm in your role as a Moderator.

My hat is off to the two new Moderators on this site. I for one appreciate your good efforts and volunteer, unpaid work on everyone's behalf here.

With due respect the incident happened in Pakistan and the accused(s) will be tired under Pakistani law and the Pakistan Penal code.

Pakistani Penal Code. 320:
320. Punishment for qatl-i-khata by rash or negligent driving:
Whoever commits qatl-ikhata by rash or negligent driving shall, having regard to the facts and circumstances the case, in addition to diyat, be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to ten years.
Pakistan Penal Code (Act XLV of 1860)

Under US laws, for analogy only, a person driving in heavy traffic when someone on a motor bike darts in front of and into their vehicle in traffic, resulting in a death, "may" have committed unintended vehicular homicide.

Correction:
Vehicular homicide (also known as vehicular manslaughter) in most states in the United States, is a crime. In general, it involves death that results from the negligent operation of a vehicle, or more so a result from driving while committing an unlawful act that does not amount to a felony. In the Model Penal Code there is no separate category of vehicular homicide, and vehicular homicides that involve negligence. Both are included in the overall category of negligent homicide.[1][2] It can be compared to the offense of dangerous driving causing death in other countries.

Consider the following
1. Heavy Traffic ( Hazard Perception)
2. Exceeding the mandated speed limit at a very busy "unmarked" Junction (Stipulated Pakistani Speed Limit 60KM =37 MPH.)

Here is an excrept from the National Highway and Motorway Police Safe Driving Handbook:

Adapt your driving to the type of road. Take particular care on roads with junctions.

1.slow down
2. be prepared for vehicles pulling out

Inside streets and country lanes where there may be unmarked junctions, proceed cautiously- nobody has priority at an unmarked junction.

2. Defensive Driving ( reduce speed and be self aware)

3. Who is responsible for the car " the driver".


This would be defined in a calm, objective, peaceful US court based on the facts discernable, not determined by a bunch of overseas Pakistanis writing from Russia, Canada, and elsewhere saying "hang the murderer, calling a Paksitani driver a murderer is absurd here."

peaceful US court
And what, our legal system consists or Kangaroos?

not determined by a bunch of overseas Pakistanis writing from Russia, Canada, and elsewhere
This comment here is unwarranted, you have no right to dictate how any member of the forum should or should not post in exhibiting their emotions. Secondly be they overseas or not, they are "Pakistani" and as such are stakeholders in what happens in Pakistan.

Anyway remember the OJ Simpson trial, how people were screaming for his blood... Did that influence the trial?.... Use Commonsense Please!!!

People are killed the world over in automobile and motor cycle wrecks every day, 24/7. Not a good thing but not a basis to call a Pakistani driver a "murderer" when trying to make something out of a crowded traffic congested scene of an attempted robbery shooting, where the crowd as is typical in a third world setting is boiling around with knowing any hard facts merely rubber necking and getting in the way.

Please refer back to what the Pakistani LAW says on this... Thank you.

Here is a list of common traffic viloations covered under the jurisdiction of the Traffic Police:
1

Exceeding prescribed speed limit

2

Carrying passengers in a public service vehicle exceeding permissible limit

3

Violation of traffic signals (electrical or manual)

4

Over loading a goods vehicle

5

Driving a motor vehicle at night without proper lights

6

Driving a motor vehicle on the wrong side of the road

7

Driving a motor vehicle with tinted/covered glasses


8

Violation of line/lane/zebra crossing etc.

9

Playing a motor vehicle where and when prohibited.

10

Obstructing traffic

11

Reckless and negligent driving.

12

Driving a motor vehicle without driving license

13

Using a pressure horn, musical horn or using any other horn in a silence zone

14

Emitting excessive smoke.

15

Driving an unregistered motor vehicle

16

Driving in violation of age limit

17

Driving a motor vehicle without fitness certificate

18

Driving without or in violation of condition of route permit

19

Riding a two wheel motorcycle without safety helmet

20

Pillion riding by more than two persons

21

Use of hand-held mobile phone while driving.

22

Non-fastening of seat belt while driving on a notified road

23

Violation of parking rules

24

Violation of any other provision of the Ordinance or the rules made there under punishable under section 112
 
Quite the contrary, Mr. Davis fired in self defense and saved his own life thereby.

That is why I posted a partial diary here of past murders of other Americans by thugs and terrorists inside Paksitan starting from 2006 to present time, within one of today's posting from me.

Pakistan has become much worse in terms of failed law and order since 911, an unhappy but hard statistical fact.

It has shown less concern for the murders of it's own people and in this instance, based on rabin inputs from overseas Pakitanis or who parents were originally from Pakistan and instead followed a very bad characteristic of poorer nations of always looking to blame others, outsiders, Americans, for their hard times.

India has done better than Pakistan in that it chose to be secular and focus on free enterprise.

Paksitan's business and banking efforts are daily challenged by the radical views of terrorists version of Islam which finds it wrong to make a profit, charge interest, to participate in world's free enterprise system.

Yet Pakistan, for that matter India, and other emerged or emerging nations are 100% reliant on and have to have free enterprise venture capital to achieve.

Communist China has become a hybrid free enterprise zone paradox and now holds the "paper" of most of the free world's major economies, including of the US and Japan.

Of course the terrorists have murdered in recent years Chinese in Pakistan there to help fund and build for creating of jobs for Paksitanis particularly in Balochistan the Port of Gwadar. This port is a major huge potential generator of jobs for Balochis, with to be completed refineries, docks, ship yards, a major railroad which it will be the hub of, and it will also be if not already a major trucking hub.

Floods and national disasters bring quick primarily US provided and funded rescue and survival personnel and equipment. We never fail to help, even when those we help are short signed, bigoted and want to find fault when the real fault lies in their own hearts for not having respect for differing points of view in busienss, economics, and the broad array of religious beliefs of a whole world of "others."

Yet the Indus River Vallely was a major cradle that got our whole world now free enterprise systme into existance through thousands of years of economic and religious evolution.

CARAVANS by James Mitchner is still a good book to read to know how it used to be when what we today know as Afghanistan was the trade route from the West to the Orient, to China and Japan, over the past two thousand years or more.
 
PS - I was referred to on one of many negative posts here today as "retired US Army." If folks bothered to read my postings, easily found under AMERICAN EAGLE, you would find that I am retired USAF Reserve. Thirty one years (6 active duty USAF, including 2 years in Pakistan) and 25 in the USAF Reserve at the Joint Chiefs of staff (field grade, 06 and 07 level), including around 8 years on the Chief of Staff-staff, as a reservist Assistant Chief of Staff in a part time, drilling reservist sense, at HQ US Special Operations Command in Florida.

My time in Pakistan included daily seeing dead and dying poor folks on the sidewalks in parts of Karachi, where people walked around or stepped over them without stopping to render help or assistance. Many had no clothes on their back and died exposed to the elements. Very tragic memories burned into my memory for the rest of my life.
Sir no offense intended but Respect Is Earned. Not Commanded, Not Demanded.I had a lot of respect for you but lost it all after seeing your posts here and how you labeled 3 Pakistanis terrorists without any proof and showing utter ignorance.You would know by reading my posts that i am quite pro America and the point i am defending here has nothing whatsoever to do with the shooter being American.I would have said the same thing if shooter was Pakistani.Refer to my posts in Salman Taseer's assassination thread and you can see how angry i was and posted there a lot more then here!
 
Quite the contrary, Mr. Davis fired in self defense and saved his own life thereby.

That is why I posted a partial diary here of past murders of other Americans by thugs and terrorists inside Paksitan starting from 2006 to present time, within one of today's posting from me.

Pakistan has become much worse in terms of failed law and order since 911, an unhappy but hard statistical fact.

It has shown less concern for the murders of it's own people and in this instance, based on rabin inputs from overseas Pakitanis or who parents were originally from Pakistan and instead followed a very bad characteristic of poorer nations of always looking to blame others, outsiders, Americans, for their hard times.

India has done better than Pakistan in that it chose to be secular and focus on free enterprise.

Paksitan's business and banking efforts are daily challenged by the radical views of terrorists version of Islam which finds it wrong to make a profit, charge interest, to participate in world's free enterprise system.

Yet Pakistan, for that matter India, and other emerged or emerging nations are 100% reliant on and have to have free enterprise venture capital to achieve.

Communist China has become a hybrid free enterprise zone paradox and now holds the "paper" of most of the free world's major economies, including of the US and Japan.

Of course the terrorists have murdered in recent years Chinese in Pakistan there to help fund and build for creating of jobs for Paksitanis particularly in Balochistan the Port of Gwadar. This port is a major huge potential generator of jobs for Balochis, with to be completed refineries, docks, ship yards, a major railroad which it will be the hub of, and it will also be if not already a major trucking hub.

Floods and national disasters bring quick primarily US provided and funded rescue and survival personnel and equipment. We never fail to help, even when those we help are short signed, bigoted and want to find fault when the real fault lies in their own hearts for not having respect for differing points of view in busienss, economics, and the broad array of religious beliefs of a whole world of "others."

Yet the Indus River Vallely was a major cradle that got our whole world now free enterprise systme into existance through thousands of years of economic and religious evolution.

CARAVANS by James Mitchner is still a good book to read to know how it used to be when what we today know as Afghanistan was the trade route from the West to the Orient, to China and Japan, over the past two thousand years or more.

:mod:

Relevance, enlightening as your analysis is, please may we keep this thread about the facts behind the "incident" in Lahore and not a pre-incident analysis on the socio and economic drivers behind what may or may not be the motivating factor behind the shortcomings of Pakistan.

Many thanks.
 
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