Raymond Davis Case: Developing Story

[Abu Zolfiqar]

You are factually mistaken.

The claiming of Diplomatic Immunity is exactly whey the process inside Pakistan is on hold. Pakistan knows what full diplomatic immunity means and President Obama and Secretary of State Clinton have made clear the US position which is cannot be disallowed under the Vienna Convention and several Treaties involved with that topic, DI.

Overseas writers, and let's be clear, I am one, an American who both served in and was wounded in Pakistan in January 1965 at the time of an early Rann of Kutch dust up between Pakistan and India...all of us overseas writers are either following the International Rule of Law or defying it to ask for any other legal actions without first observing DI.

DI works well in that the US will investigate through the US Justice Dept. all matters involving the Davis issue and honest, not stacked justice will then be done, up or down.

Meanwhile,how is the Pakistani Army and Frontier Forcess battle in the Northern areas going to try to dislodge and defeat major headquarters of the Taliban?

What are the people of Lahore doing to help the hundreds of families of those blown to bits and others maimed for life by the terrorist bombings of late in the City of Lahore?

It may be more focused and helpful to address domestic terrorism than to try to blame the victum, Mr. Davis, over a failed stick up attempt by known robbers.

Have a good weekend.

there are threads for those other cancers and ills ongoing....please don't divert attention to other things not relevant here.

by the way, and i reiterate it again and again --- the courts will decide whether it was self-defence or not. It appears thus far that the ''self-defence'' argument is rubbished --but let's see.

if i am not mistaken, he was unauthorized to be carrying a weapon and he was driving a vehicle with fake registration --in fact he wasn't even authorized to be on the road where he was.

you as an American should be asking more questions about his activities than our courts or our people are, for your information.

 

[Awesome]

Thid argument of yours has no locus standi.

The individual in the video was not the foreign minister at the time he made the statement. If he so truly believed what he's saying now, he should have stated this during his tenure as the FM.

No use saying it now.

Obviously he has witnesses in the FM that are corroborating his story even now. Namely Salman Bashir, the foreign secretary, who is also determined to stand his ground - who has said that the matter is sub-judice - in the courts.

Of course, it seems like Salman Bashir is the next target of American loyalists and will be fired from the ministry as well.

The job of a Foreign Minister is not to speak to the media on a sub-judice matter. But now that he has left the ministry he can expose the behind the scenes events.

This matter too should be decided in the courts, as this seems to be an unlawful termination.

 

[VCheng]

Obviously he has witnesses in the FM that are corroborating his story even now. Namely Salman Bashir, the foreign secretary, who is also determined to stand his ground - who has said that the matter is sub-judice - in the courts.

Of course, it seems like Salman Bashir is the next target of American loyalists and will be fired from the ministry as well.

The job of a Foreign Minister is not to speak to the media on a sub-judice matter. But now that he has left the ministry he can expose the behind the scenes events.

This matter too should be decided in the courts, as this seems to be an unlawful termination.

The unlawful termination claim is a separate matter legally Sir.

All the witnesses and statements made after dismissal carry no legal weight. The OFFICIAL statement which will be introduced in court with the full authority of the Federal government is what will stand legally.

I don't know what that will be, even though I have an idea, but I am willing to wait until that OFFICIAL statement is submitted. It would be wise to consider doing the same.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Pakistani Courts are an internal matter of Pakistan. The matter of diplomatic immunity holds between two govt. and not between a court and a govt.

2 suspected crimes were committed within minutes of eachother; possible double-murder as well as hit and run involving manslaughter (among other charges)

yes, ''charges''

surely when Pakistan is given assurance that Davis will be tried in American court; when Pakistan is given assurance that the identity and whereabouts of the other driver will be ascertained so he can be brought to trial as well --then we can talk about it becoming an international matter

your logic applies to those with diplomatic immunity; thus far, it is to be determined whether the current suspect -a technical advisor/consultant (as he himself stated in the video)-- has immunity.

That is, if it hasn't been determined already --i am not privvy to the details and therefore not in a position to make an authoritative conclusion. The courts are capable and will determine it as the proceedings are still underway.

 

[Bang Galore]

O
The job of a Foreign Minister is not to speak to the media on a sub-judice matter. But now that he has left the ministry he can expose the behind the scenes events.

This matter too should be decided in the courts, as this seems to be an unlawful termination.

Comes under Prime Ministerial prerogative, the courts have no locus standi in the matter.

 

[Awesome]

‘Davis’: Will Salman Bashir be the next political victim of Hyperion affair | Rupee News

Islamabad still hasn’t come to grips with the the first politcal casualty from the “Raymond Davis” Affair. Foreign Minister Mahmood Qureshi was fired for refusing to forge the Foreign Ministry records and retroactively placing the name of “Raymond Davis” on the list of US employees with diplomatic immunity.

The Minister of Communication Ms. Fauzia Wahab destroyed her credibility when she was repudiated by her own party.
Many analysts think that the next political casualty from the drama in Mozung wil be Salman Bashir who has been supporting the position of FOrmer Foreign Minsiter Mahmood Qureshi.

Ambassador Munter called on Secretary Foreign Affairs Mr. Salman Bashir to push for Mr. “Davis”, but was politely refused by the seasoned diplomat.

According to media reports, the newly appointed American envoy had sought an early certification from the Foreign Office so that “Pakistan and United States could devote their time and energy to other vital issues”. Ambassador Munter reiterated that Raymond Davis enjoyed diplomatic immunity, requesting an immediate release under the Vienna Conventions. Per the government’s line, Bashir told the Ambassador that the matter is sub judice and could only be decided by the court of law. The Secretary Foreign Affairs reiterated that one man should not drive 60-year-old relations between the two key allies in war against terrorism.

Salman Bashir hoped that the US-Afghan-Pakistan would be rescheduled as soon as possible because this interaction was extremely important for peace and security in the region. Mr. Bashir also explained to the US envoy that the PPP Government was constrained and could not oblige the US even it it wanted to because of the severe reaction from the people. THe PPP fears that the government would fall if it acquiesced to the US pressure. Anti-American sentiments in the country are at fever pitch..

Washington has threatened Pakistan with a break in diplomatic ties to suspension of economic assistance to secure the release of Raymond Davis. Secretary of State Mrs Hillary Clinton had refused to meet Pakistan’s former foreign minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi in Munich, though she did meet with General Kayani. The Lahore Police on Friday rejected the claim of “Raymond Davis” that he killed two Pakistanis in self-defence. The court has sent the murderer on a two-week judicial remand.

 

[The HBS Guy]

Obviously he has witnesses in the FM that are corroborating his story even now. Namely Salman Bashir, the foreign secretary, who is also determined to stand his ground - who has said that the matter is sub-judice - in the courts.

Of course, it seems like Salman Bashir is the next target of American loyalists and will be fired from the ministry as well.

The job of a Foreign Minister is not to speak to the media on a sub-judice matter. But now that he has left the ministry he can expose the behind the scenes events.

That's an internal matter of Pakistan not concerning outsiders like us.

The words 'obviously' etc. mean nothing in legal parlance. What matter are the OFFICIAL WRITTEN RECORDS.

You are trying to hide the failure of your FO to present an OFFICIAL WRITTEN RECORD/STATEMENT even after so many days since the incident occurred.

This matter too should be decided in the courts, as this seems to be an unlawful termination.

'Should be' doesn't matter because that's your opinion.

What 'should be' according to you might be the 'should not be' according to me. International matter don't function that way.

If there's anything that 'should be' or rather 'would be' it's the preservation of Internationally accepted conventions and practices.

 

[Awesome]

Comes under Prime Ministerial prerogative, the courts have no locus standi in the matter.

The courts CAN give a verdict against anyone falsifying documents.

Qureshi didn't come up with this decision, this was determined by the ministry and all its technical staff. How many people will they replace and silence? Qureshi has already been summoned by the court to speak on the matter. So I'd trust the Chief Justice of the LHC to better interpret the law, than you, thanks.

 

[The HBS Guy]

2 suspected crimes were committed within minutes of eachother; possible double-murder as well as hit and run involving manslaughter (among other charges)

yes, ''charges''

surely when Pakistan is given assurance that Davis will be tried in American court; when Pakistan is given assurance that the identity and whereabouts of the other driver will be ascertained so he can be brought to trial as well --then we can talk about it becoming an international matter

your logic applies to those with diplomatic immunity; thus far, it is to be determined whether the current suspect -a technical advisor/consultant (as he himself stated in the video)-- has immunity.

That is, if it hasn't been determined already --i am not privvy to the details and therefore not in a position to make an authoritative conclusion. The courts are capable and will determine it as the proceedings are still underway.

Of course the courts are capable. Who said they aren't. But how can even a 'capable' court issue directives on something that is beyond its powers to adjudicate?

Vienna convention, which Pakistan has ratified in 1972, excludes the role of courts when it comes to settling the matter of diplomatic status.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

this is semi-off-topic

''Hyperion'' is a company only in name. They have a website.

a website that one could have made in roughly 25-30 minutes using dreamweaver/basic html.

apparently, no such company even exists.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Of course the courts are capable. Who said they aren't. But how can even a 'capable' court issue directives on something that is beyond its powers to adjudicate?

Vienna convention, which Pakistan has ratified in 1972, excludes the role of courts when it comes to settling the matter of diplomatic status.

if and when the suspects have immunity in the first place, which apparently Davis did not.

as a civilian, he would be liable to answer to the local courts

 

[Awesome]

Vienna convention, which Pakistan has ratified in 1972, excludes the role of courts when it comes to settling the matter of diplomatic status.

Denying the obvious won't help.

The LAW has arrested someone.

The Law states a trial has to be held

The law says the trial can be circumvented if there is immunity.

The FM only presents the case of immunity, the court decides it.

here is the SERVING Foreign Secretary stating that FACT:

'Court to decide on Davis case'-Pakistan-World-TIMESNOW.tv - Latest Breaking News, Big News Stories, News Videos

 

[The HBS Guy]

if and when the suspects have immunity in the first place, which apparently Davis did not.

as a civilian, he would be liable to answer to the local courts

Your statement is self-contradictory.

By saying 'as a civilian' and 'apparently Davis did not', you are passing judgement on the diplomatic status of a person claiming diplomatic immunity.

What's left then? Now you've become the judge and the prosecutor all by yourself.

It's for the FO to decide. I don't know why are you guys having so much difficulty understanding such simple words.

 

[Awesome]

Pakistani police stating to Davis that his passport does not certify him as a diplomat.

 

[Bang Galore]

The courts CAN give a verdict against anyone falsifying documents.

Qureshi didn't come up with this decision, this was determined by the ministry and all its technical staff. How many people will they replace and silence? Qureshi has already been summoned by the court to speak on the matter. So I'd trust the Chief Justice of the LHC to better interpret the law, than you, thanks.

Cabinet appointees fall in the preserve of Prime Ministerial prerogative. No court including the LHC can interfere in that. Falsifying documents fall into a different arena completely. The foreign minister has no legal recourse, only political. Even the foreign secretary would ordinarily have no legal recourse to being sacked as foreign secretary, that position cannot be claimed as a right. He would however have legal recourse if he was sacked from the foreign service.