Raymond Davis Case: Developing Story

[JonAsad]

Relatives say that neither Pakistani nor US officials came to console them, but Jamaat-ud-Dawa, a charity considered a front for those behind the 2008 Mumbai attacks and blacklisted by the United Nations, have offered support.

“They have extended support to us and they are saying we are with you against America because America has done all wrong,” said a brother of Faizan Haider, one of those killed by Davis, in reference to Jamaat-ud-Dawa and religious party Jamaat-e-Islami.

At least some one is there to console them--

 

[American Eagle]

Here we ago again with misinformation and untruths on this otherwise good website PDF.

The GOP promptly sent people to condole and talk with the families of the two deceased robbers. If folks would take the time to read back in this now very long thread this fact can be found.

Or anyone can go a Pakistani news website, such as DAWN or Lahore Times Express...and look up the GOP contacts with the families up for themselves.

Thanks for in future doing your research before you make statements to the contrary.

 

[DV RULES]

With all due respect Sir, please note that RD is, at this point, only accused of crimes and a legal and official process in under way.

In any robust system of justice, the accused is entitled to a presumption of innocence, unless and until proven otherwise.

RD, for all his alleged crimes, is NOT a drug crazed maniac who can be blithely assumed to have killed for no good reasons.

Just like all of us here, he had a job and a duty to fulfill, and dedicated service to one's country is patriotism, and thus must be respected at all times.

After all, soldiers must respect all fallen and incarcerated soldiers no matter which side they belonged too, right?

Please also note that I mean no disrespect to the deceased at all. Their loss is a tragedy too, for whole families, and this must not also be forgotten.

 

[JonAsad]

Here we ago again with misinformation and untruths on this otherwise good website PDF.

The GOP promptly sent people to condole and talk with the families of the two deceased robbers. If folks would take the time to read back in this now very long thread this fact can be found.

Or anyone can go a Pakistani news website, such as DAWN or Lahore Times Express...and look up the GOP contacts with the families up for themselves.

Thanks for in future doing your research before you make statements to the contrary.

The article you are talking about is from your favorite site- DAWN NEWS

The brother, Imran Haider, 34, told AFP at his home in a working-class neighbourhood in Lahore that the family had joined political rallies organised by religious groups calling for Davis to stand trial.

The United States has confirmed neither Davis’ name nor the precise nature of his assignment.

“We believe Davis is not a diplomat, he’s a spy. If he’s a diplomat why hasn’t the government said that yet? It’s fishy,” Imran said.

These are the quotes of non other than victim's Brothers- The family-
How can you just try to impose that GoP did console them- even trying is just stupidity-

 

[American Eagle]

This article is copied and pasted from CNN World News on line, dated 4 Feb, 2011, for your background info. AE

Pakistani men shot by U.S. envoy likely robbers, Pakistani police say
KARACHI

Share this on:Mixx Facebook Twitter Digg delicious reddit MySpace StumbleUpon LinkedIn February 04, 2011|By the CNN Wire Staff

U.S. diplomat Raymond Davis has been in jail since killing two Pakistani boys he claims were robbers on January 27 in Lahore.Evidence found on the bodies of two men killed by a now-jailed U.S. diplomat aligns with the State Department's claim that the men were robbers, according to a Pakistani police official.

Raymond Davis, who works at the U.S. consulate in Lahore, Pakistan, has been jailed since January 27, when authorities say he shot and killed two men on a motorcycle. Davis said the men attacked him while trying to rob him as he drove through a busy neighborhood, according to the U.S. Embassy in Pakistan.


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When police searched the bodies, they found stolen cell phones and cash that belonged to two men who had reported being robbed earlier that day by two gunmen on a motorcycle, a Pakistani police official told CNN.

The official identified the dead men as Faheem Shamshad, 26, and Faizan Haider, 22.

Their families filed police reports accusing Davis of murder, a police spokesman said.

A third person, Muhammad Abad ur Rehman, allegedly was struck and killed by a U.S. consulate car responding to the shooting. Police are investigating the death, but the U.S. Embassy has not revealed the identity of the person driving that car despite calls from Pakistani authorities to do so.

On Thursday, a judge in Lahore ordered the government to hold Davis for at least eight more days and place his name on an exit control list to ensure he does not leave the country.

In a statement on its website, the U.S. Embassy in Pakistan said its employee shot two armed men in self-defense and renewed its call for the Pakistani government to release him, saying he is entitled to diplomatic immunity.

Speculation in the Pakistani media has suggested that Davis was traveling on a business visa and that he was consequently not subject to diplomatic protections.

U.S. officials notified Pakistan's Foreign Ministry that the employee was in the country on diplomatic business, and details about his passport and visa were irrelevant, countered acting U.S. embassy spokeswoman Courtney Beale.

State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley said Wednesday that the U.S. government is in "constant contact" with the Pakistan government.

"We continue to encourage the government of Pakistan to respect his diplomatic immunity and to release him," Crowley said.

Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari urged people not to use the incident for "political point scoring," spokesman Farhatullah Babar said.

"The president said that the government had taken a principled position, that the matter was before the judiciary whose verdict should be awaited and respected," Babar said.

The case has sparked some protest and fueled anti-American sentiments in Pakistan.

During several protests this week, hard-line clerics condemned the shootings and demanded the government not release Davis to the U.S. government.

Local television showed a rally in Karachi where protesters re-enacted their version of shooting incident. Men wearing smiling masks and holding toy guns played the part of Davis and gleefully danced around several protesters who pretended to be the shooting victims.

 

[American Eagle]

US urges Pak to follow its international obligations

Submitted 5 hrs 19 mins ago Thursday, Feb. 17, 2011 dateline

US has asserted that courts in Pakistan have no jurisdiction over Raymond Davis, who is accused of killing two persons in Lahore, and he needs to be released immediately as he has diplomatic immunity under the Vienna Convention. "We believe that diplomatic immunity (to Davis) is a fact. From our standpoint, it is not a matter in dispute. It's certainly not a matter that should be resolved by courts in Pakistan," State Department spokesman P J Crowley told reporters at his daily news conference. Noting that there will be a hearing at the Lahore High Court today, Crowley said the US will present a petition to the court that he in fact has diplomatic immunity.

 

[American Eagle]

Same wire story also appears today in the Pakistani daily newspaper THE NATION. Thanks for letting me know the same story is being carried in several different Pakistani daily newspapers there. AE

 

[JonAsad]

Pakistani men shot by U.S. envoy likely robbers, Pakistani police say

just like raymond is most unlikely a diplomat-

Between 3 feb and 17 feb- lots of developments have taken place-- for example some are saying they were Pak intelligence operatives-- and the post mortem report saying there were 7-9 shots in the victims back- dont know why you cant go beyond 3feb--

 

[JonAsad]

Pak refusal of Davis immunity disappoints US: Munter

The US ambassador to Pakistan, Cameron Munter, said Thursday that the US is disappointed the Pakistani government did not certify that Raymond Davis has diplomatic immunity. In a statement, Munter said the U.S. has made its position on the case clear. Lahore High Court has delayed until next month a ruling on whether the Davis has diplomatic immunity.

Pak refusal of Davis immunity disappoints US: Munter | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online

 

[HRK]

Here we ago again with misinformation and untruths on this otherwise good website PDF.

The GOP promptly sent people to condole and talk with the families of the two deceased robbers. If folks would take the time to read back in this now very long thread this fact can be found.

Or anyone can go a Pakistani news website, such as DAWN or Lahore Times Express...and look up the GOP contacts with the families up for themselves.

Thanks for in future doing your research before you make statements to the contrary.

Two robbers one was shoot from behind and other from the distance of 50 feet’s when he was trying to save his life. A true Hollywood style action thriller story, and what about the third one for what he was been murdered by other US operatives.

 

[JonAsad]

Two robbers one was shoot from behind and other from the distance of 50 feet’s when he was trying to save his life. A true Hollywood style action thriller story, and what about the third one for what he was been murdered by other US operatives.

Yup the two accused robbers were shot by an american terrorist- and the third innocent by the terrorists vehicle-

 

[VCheng]

With all due respect Sir, please note that RD is, at this point, only accused of crimes and a legal and official process in under way.

In any robust system of justice, the accused is entitled to a presumption of innocence, unless and until proven otherwise.

RD, for all his alleged crimes, is NOT a drug crazed maniac who can be blithely assumed to have killed for no good reasons.

Just like all of us here, he had a job and a duty to fulfill, and dedicated service to one's country is patriotism, and thus must be respected at all times.

After all, soldiers must respect all fallen and incarcerated soldiers no matter which side they belonged too, right?

Please also note that I mean no disrespect to the deceased at all. Their loss is a tragedy too, for whole families, and this must not also be forgotten.

Why the emoticons? Please read all my words again, particulary the bolded ones, and try to accept that fairness and truth MUST apply to both sides.

 

[was]

if a pakistani consular worker did all this.he would be already on the electric chair or life imprisoned.this country is a us colony now, shah mehmood qureshi,s removal its an example.god save us from america

 

[MastanKhan]

Mastaan sahab, it is really confusing, if such statements are being given by a selective type of Pakistanis to alert the Pakistani public to stand up to this injustice or is it being done to infuse some sort of conciliatory thought in the Pakistani mindset that "that things are so bad so there is no use fighting for the right things".

I can't help but realize that this selective group, be it Sami Shah's I Spy article, be it the loyalists of the PPP, be it the doomsday warnings on the forums - its certainly starting to look like a concientious effort to some how degalvanize the Pakistani populace that is right now fighting the most important battle for its sovereignty.

Hi Asim,

In this 3D version of events---there is a third side of the frame as well. Where even though as much nationalistic sentiments I have---I have to see what has happend without prejudice and keep the focus on the issue in itself.

We know that 2 people were shot----the initial reports by police declared that those two were robbers with guns and loaded magazines. I personally have no qualms against the shootings of those two individuals under those circumstances.

The police chief Tareen's statement that there was a loaded magazine in each of the two pistols of the culprtis but no bullet in the chambers---holds no value in any court of law anywhere in the world----as a matter----it becomes a shameful act of deception by a police officer to show prejudice against an individual.

So---to try this man for murder is preposterous and deceitful---basically pakiatnis want to punish Raymond Davis for the sins committed by the american millitary against pakistan---like killings in drone attacks etc etc etc.

Every individual has a right to defend himself---and after saying that---here is what pakistan needs to focus on----Davis was not authorized to carry a handgun in pakistan under any pakistani authority----secondly all other paraphernalia that he had needed to be assessed---he had photos of sensitive areas on his phone or he had connection to people in waziristan---then those areas need to be persued in an appropriate manner and if there are any charges to be placed---that is where we need to look at---.

Killing two highwaymen in self defence is not a criminal act----this issue has been politicized by the punjab govt for personal gains and the crowds riled up into a fury by the PML N---.

If Davis needs to be punished---he needs to be punished for other things and not for the two killings per say---now---as far as diplomatic immunity goes---he's got noe---otherwise the proof would have been in front of the court by now---.

The PPP govt is done for now----Shah Mahmood Q is going to be the future hero of PPP---Zardari and Gilani are on their way out---and so is davis----. The pak courts can charge him and sentence him and then he can be declared a persona no grata and kicked out of pakistan and handed over to the U S govt so that they can carry out the remaining sentence.

What the U S govt wants to do with him later on---it is upto them---.

Pakistan had to prove a point---and we have done that so far---. But the pakistani mentality is that when you stab someone---you have to have a hand behind the dagger---. Pakistanis need to grow out of this man behind the machine thing---. There are many other ways to prove your point and we have utilized them as well.

Now---as far as the american news papers go---I read them at their face value----some of their articles may seem to be truthful on the surface but may have a different agenda in the core.


Now tell me Asim=---if pakistanis are so holy---honest and consciencious of their rights----why have they not stood up for the Mukhtar Mai and her brother---who were gang raped and sodo-mized----why the paks have not shown any disgust to that act and asked for the hangings of the perforators----we have child molestations and child murders every other day----where is your honor and courage and right and fight for justice hiding at that time---we have highway robberies at random---in the city---on thew freeways----why don't the justice system come in and gie capitol punishment to those to give the society and safe passage to do their daily chores----.


You know----this act of nationalism on the pakistanis is very convenient and selective----we live with the MASJID A SHAB BHAR syndrome all our lives---. Whereas---we should have stood up and condemned the two culprits for trying their high handedness and thanking Davis for showing some light and courage to the nation to take charge----we are acting other wise----taking the side of the criminals----YOU KNOW WHY SIR----BECAUSE IN OUR HEARTS AND SOULS WE ARE CRIMINALS----just waiting for the oppurtune moment to make our strike.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

"Now tell me Asim=---if pakistanis are so holy---honest and consciencious of their rights----why have they not stood up for the Mukhtar Mai and her brother---who were gang raped and sodo-mized----why the paks have not shown any disgust to that act and asked for the hangings of the perforators----we have child molestations and child murders every other day----where is your honor and courage and right and fight for justice hiding at that time---we have highway robberies at random---in the city---on thew freeways----why don't the justice system come in and gie capitol punishment to those to give the society and safe passage to do their daily chores----."

Well, I sort of agree with you but you mixed a social issue with a national, more so an international. The U.S. is using predator drones on Mexico border but they are only there for surveillance, not armed. However, the U.S. is using the same armed drones in other countries, why?

Look, there are national/social issues involved if they were to use the armed version in the U.S. As a matter of fact, Americans jumped hard on that 'weapons of mass destruction' theory; however, it was a false intelligence. Where was the regret from the people who supported it?

In conclusion, don't mix social issues of a country to a geopolitical situation.