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Raymond Davis Case: Developing Story

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The document shows that Davis gets $ 0.2 million per annum as salary.
KARACHI: Documents obtained by DawnNews on Wednesday revealed that Raymond Davis, the US gunman accused of killing two Pakistanis in Lahore, is a permanent employee of the US Overseas Protective Security Services.

The document shows that Davis gets $ 0.2 million per annum as salary.

Meanwhile, government authorities have decided to shift the US official to Adiala Jail where his visiting hours will be limited to three hours.
 
Isn't it odd that people living outside a country (and i am referring to both Indians & Pakistanis) want their country of origin to take a hardline position which may end up inconveniencing millions but most of them have no qualms in continuing to live in the country/countries that they want a hardline position taken against. Would appreciate their positions more if they marked their protest by chucking everything they have in the "evil" country and turn up to join the protest in their country of origin. People who only want others to sacrifice/risk a lot while being unprepared to inconvenience themselves in the least should be willing to carry the charge of being duplicitous.
This is a patently false argument - if those wanting the GoP to take a hard line position on the Davis issue were not present in significant numbers in Pakistan, the GoP would not be in the position it is now, and would have released Davis without being concerned about any potential political fallout.

The fact that the PPP is trying to find a way to satisfy both the US Government and the Pakistani electorate is indicative of the fact that the sentiments around the Davis case, that you see reflected on this forum by many overseas Pakistanis, are shared by most Pakistanis resident in Pakistan.

Secondly, unless these 'overseas Pakistanis' have no immediate family in Pakistan, any thing that happens in Pakistan stands to have a very strong impact on them through the impact on their immediate families. Our demographic is primarily a younger one - that usually means that the overseas Pakistanis on this forum have parents, siblings and other relatives in Pakistan, and it is rather callous to argue that they care nothing for what happens to their siblings or parents.

This canard of 'overseas Pakistanis' pops up frequently in discussions pushing nationalist Pakistani positions, usually pushed by Indians, and in the future I would appreciate it if this canard is left out of discussions, since all it does is attempt to hijack the discussion away from the actual topic. Focus on the arguments being made, not on who is making them or what their socio-economic background or resident status is.
 
also state the article 41 as well .... you need to read all articles and see them in actual context ... otherwise no use to claim your points and are not justified as well

Article 41​
1.Without prejudice to their privileges and immunities, it is the duty of all persons enjoying such
privileges and immunities to respect the laws and regulations of the receiving State. They also have a
duty not to interfere in the internal affairs of that State.
2.All official business with the receiving State entrusted to the mission by the sending State shall
be conducted with or through the Ministry for Foreign Affairs of the receiving State or such other
ministry as may be agreed.
3.The premises of the mission must not be used in any manner incompatible with the functions of
the mission as laid down in the present Convention or by other rules of general international law or by
any special agreements in force between the sending and the receiving State.

I am not sure what you meant by scoring points..??I posted the info for ease of members...
 
Hijacking this long drawn out discussion is everyone and anyone who does not understand and believe that Mr. Davis has absolute 100% diplomatic immunity. This said, it was a slow reaction but the Pakistani Foreign Office sent it's official letter to the Court, in response to the court's Order to determine the immunity of Mr. Davis. This new official, only, ever, official FO letter declares Mr. Davis has 100% Diplomatic Immunity. Yet many on this site keep trying to "decide" his fate with their self generated postings. In my time living and working in Pakitan most Pakistanis were too busy trying to eke out a living.
 
Hijacking this long drawn out discussion is everyone and anyone who does not understand and believe that Mr. Davis has absolute 100% diplomatic immunity. This said, it was a slow reaction but the Pakistani Foreign Office sent it's official letter to the Court, in response to the court's Order to determine the immunity of Mr. Davis. This new official, only, ever, official FO letter declares Mr. Davis has 100% Diplomatic Immunity. Yet many on this site keep trying to "decide" his fate with their self generated postings. In my time living and working in Pakitan most Pakistanis were too busy trying to eke out a living.

It hasn't come out publicly and may just be speculation, furthermore, it only confirms that your government is hand in gloves with all the corrupt elements in Pakistan. As first they had Qureshi fired, after he said there's no immunity, then suddenly the next day there's immunity coming from the FO.

You may win the battle through these corrupt means, but you might as well kiss the War oT goodbye... First this corrupt government then all American officials would be chased out of Pakistan.
 
If FO does produce and court accepts the required documents (however forged they are), then as civilized society we should let the man go and respect the decision.

Our anger must shift to our internal weaknesses. Davis didn't come here without a visa. Our FO has given him the visa, we should question them on what basis they are granting people like RD visa's? What are their vetting procedures? Where are all our 'competent' and much feared agencies and their input when they clear people like him?

Its good that this incident happened, its brought in the lime light how incompetent our ministeries really are. Police says they were robers and then say it was cold murder. FO has taken one stand and now it appears is begining to lean towards the other. Then we have the likes of Qureshi who only God knows if is telling the truth or playing politics .

There is so much contradiction in everything that is and has been coming out of these sources. This has played crucial role in creating a mess out of this situation which has feulled the anger of the whole nation. And now am scared of the outcome either way. But hopfully it will give us a chance to ponder on our weaknesses.
 
If FO does produce and court accepts the required documents (however forged they are), then as civilized society we should let the man go and respect the decision.

Our anger must shift to our internal weaknesses. Davis didn't come here without a visa. Our FO has given him the visa, we should question them on what basis they are granting people like RD visa's? What are their vetting procedures? Where are all our 'competent' and much feared agencies and their input when they clear people like him?

Its good that this incident happened, its brought in the lime light how incompetent our ministeries really are. Police says they were robers and then say it was cold murder. FO has taken one stand and now it appears is begining to lean towards the other. Then we have the likes of Qureshi who god knows is telling the truth or playing politics . There is so much contradiction in everything that comes out of these institutes. This has played crucial role in creating a mess out of this situation which has feulled the anger of the whole nation. And now am scared of the outcome either way. But hopfully it will give us a chance to ponder on our weaknesses.

In that case you shall be directing your anger towards the ISI.
 
reminds me of mush.mush is a coward he wont go to hishomeland like altaf a parrot of the west ,kerry trying to be good cop haha they will never be able to comprehend us ,i want musharaf to go pakistan and get his just desert's.
 
In that case you shall be directing your anger towards the ISI.

If RD is a false identity with a matching 'fake' background and history developed by the CIA, then what exactly was the ISI or any other Pakistani agency supposed to do?

Pakistan does not maintain a database of the citizens of other nations to cross-check against to see if identities are real or not - Pakistan would have had to depend upon information provided by the US Government, and at most done a background check in the US through its embassy, which would have come out clean since the identity was set up to be clean.

The Pakistani foreign office did, if multiple reports from multiple sources in the media are to be believed, question the US Embassy about Davis and 9 other men with respect to their functions at the embassy, before granting them diplomatic status as demanded by the US. The US embassy never responded, and did not include Davis in their list of embassy diplomats after that incident, but inserted his name in another list of Embassy diplomats two days after Davis killed the two Pakistani men.

Also keep in mind that Pakistan's military and intelligence had held off on issuing visa's to hordes of US officials for a long time because they did not see what the need was, and the US had started to hold back aid over the issue:

Pakistan to grant visas to US officials in 24 hours

Published: Thursday, Nov 25, 2010, 2:05 IST
By Amir Mir | Place: ISLAMABAD | Agency: DNA

Under mounting pressure from the US, Islamabad has decided to drastically prune procedures to grant visas to American defence officials. The process, which used to take close to four months earlier, will take just 24 hours now. The Pakistani embassy in Washington has lifted all scrutiny mechanisms for granting visas for US officials.

This comes in the wake of the US’ intention to take direct control of counter-terror operations in Pakistan as a part of its broader Afghan war strategy.

Previously, acting under pressure from the mighty Pakistani military, the government was passing on all applications for visas by US defence officials to the ministry of defence, which in turn used to send them to the directorate of military intelligence. The visas were granted after several months.

According to media reports here, the new procedures were laid down on the direct intervention of the office of president Asif Ali Zardari to facilitate the Americans in their quest to directly hunt down militant networks in Pakistani cities, where Washington believes major attacks in Europe are being planned and also from where the insurgency in Afghanistan is being directed.


The development on visas occurred slightly before this weekend’s Lisbon summit of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (Nato), where it emerged there was no clear end-game strategy for the mission in Afghanistan.

The Nato leaders pledged to begin the process of withdrawal and handing over of authority for security to Afghan security forces from 2011, and to transfer complete control by the end of 2014, though they clarified that the date given for shifting authority to the Afghan government was not a deadline.

Pakistan to grant visas to US officials in 24 hours - World - DNA

The US essentially arm-twisted the GoP into issuing visas to all these officials, which the military and intelligence were rightfully skeptical of, and now the US is using the same tactics to get one of those individuals, who likely would not have been issued a visa, off the hook for murder charges.
 
I support law and order, which means at the outset that one who has, and our US President vouches for him having Diplomatic Immunity has been and continues at this moment to be held illegally.

Digressing, you and some but by no means all others, have presumed Davis guility of a serious crime...when it was the criminals/robbers who tried to stick him up. I of course will never be for anyone trying to make martyrs out of common robbers.

I have the utmost respect, esteem, and goodwill for sweepers who are poorest of the poor but who do their drugery job day in and day out honestly, without blaming anyone or anything for their low status in life. Their children should be funded by the nation for an excellent public education, and these same children of sweepers should get scholarships to cover all the costs, soup to nuts, of then attending the Pakistani college or vocational school of their choice.

And I still have good friendships with Pakistanis from all walks of life both in Pakistan and here in the US, in my immediate neighborhood.

There is no such thing as Blackwater in Pakistan, none whatsoever. There is need inside Pakistan of protection of US Embassy and various US Consular offices where the lines exist every day of Pakistanis wishing to move to the US and have a good life among us. They are most welcome as far as I am concerned as an individual American.

Your support of crime and criminals in the face of all known facts to date merely tells me you are scape goating the reality of the situation wherein Mr. Davis, who said so from the start, has 100% Diplomatic Immunity.

Have a good evening.
 
If RD is a false identity with a matching 'fake' background and history developed by the CIA, then what exactly was the ISI or any other Pakistani agency supposed to do?

Pakistan does not maintain a database of the citizens of other nations to cross-check against to see if identities are real or not - Pakistan would have had to depend upon information provided by the US Government, and at most done a background check in the US through its embassy, which would have come out clean since the identity was set up to be clean.

The Pakistani foreign office did, if multiple reports from multiple sources in the media are to be believed, question the US Embassy about Davis and 9 other men with respect to their functions at the embassy, before granting them diplomatic status as demanded by the US. The US embassy never responded, and did not include Davis in their list of embassy diplomats after that incident, but inserted his name in another list of Embassy diplomats two days after Davis killed the two Pakistani men.

Also keep in mind that Pakistan's military and intelligence had held off on issuing visa's to hordes of US officials for a long time because they did not see what the need was, and the US had started to hold back aid over the issue:



The US essentially arm-twisted the GoP into issuing visas to all these officials, which the military and intelligence were rightfully skeptical of, and now the US is using the same tactics to get one of those individuals, who likely would not have been issued a visa, off the hook for murder charges.

Is it that big a deal for the US to provide a few documents in the court?

How difficult could it seriously be for the US to prove RD's identity?

I take it as given that it is actually RD's true identity even if it is not. It's not a big ask to prove this in a Pakistani court.

Let's talk beyond that.

It can be proven that it is indeed RD's true identity.

It can be proven that RD enjoys diplomatic immunity, very easily now that even the Pakistani govt. seems willing to let him go.

What else is left?

I see RD on his way home within next 15-20 days.
 
It hasn't come out publicly and may just be speculation, furthermore, it only confirms that your government is hand in gloves with all the corrupt elements in Pakistan.
How could you possibly arrive at such a sweeping conclusion?
 
Raymond Davis is a diplomat: Foreign Ministry

LAHORE: The Foreign Ministry has declared Raymond Allen Davis, an American national who murdered two civilians in Lahore, a US diplomat, a private TV channel reported on Tuesday. In a letter, which it wrote to the Interior Ministry, the Foreign Ministry maintained that Raymond Davis was a diplomat who enjoyed immunity under the Vienna Convention. “The letter also states that Raymond Davis was appointed as a diplomat in the US Embassy in Islamabad,” the channel said. daily times monitor

This is a direct copy and paste the Lahore TIMES MONOTOR of Feb. 16, 2011.

Now here is the Wednesday, 16 Feb. 2011 article from the WASHINGTON POST in the US:


Obama raises stakes in Pakistani standoff
By BRADLEY KLAPPER
The Associated Press
Wednesday, February 16, 2011; 12:23 AM

WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama raised the stakes Tuesday in a tense standoff with Pakistan, insisting that a detained American embassy employee who killed two Pakistanis must be freed and dispatching a high-profile envoy to make the case that Pakistan has much to lose if the case drags on.

Obama insisted the "simple principle" of diplomatic immunity meant that Pakistan must release the 36-year-old U.S. official, Raymond Allen Davis. Davis has been held since the shootings almost three weeks ago.
"If it starts being fair game on our ambassadors around the world, including in dangerous places where we may have differences with those governments ... that's untenable," Obama said at a news conference, his first public remarks on the case. "It means they can't do their job. And that's why we respect these conventions and every country should as well."

The Davis case has become a flashpoint for Pakistani nationalism and anti-American suspicion, making it harder for Pakistani authorities to back down despite intense U.S. pressure.

Thousands have rallied to demand that Davis be hanged and the Taliban have threatened attacks against Pakistani officials involved in freeing the Virginia native.

The disagreement has risked spinning out of control in recent days amid dangerous anti-American sentiment in Pakistan and U.S. threats of stronger Pakistan sanctions. Partly as a punishment, the U.S. over the weekend postponed a major security conference that was scheduled with Afghanistan and Pakistan later this month.

Obama warned that Davis' detention risked further straining relations between the countries, and said local prosecution of a diplomat posed a threat to American diplomacy in general.


Davis was not an ambassador, but the United States has not spelled out his duties.

The United States insists that he carries diplomatic immunity from prosecution just as diplomats and embassy employees of other nations do in the United States.

Obama spoke after sending Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., to smooth over relations with Pakistan, whose cooperation is needed to rout insurgents fighting U.S. troops across the border in Afghanistan and al-Qaida fighters hiding in remote frontier zones.

Kerry reached out to Pakistan's government, promising a U.S. criminal investigation into the shooting if Davis is released. He took a softer public stance than many in the administration, expressing regret and acknowledging that such deaths need to be examined.

"It is customary in an incident like this for our government to conduct a criminal investigation. That is our law. And I can give you the full assurance of our government today that that will take place," Kerry told reporters in the eastern city of Lahore, where the shootings occurred. [/QUOTE]
 
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