Ratan Tata Was Humiliated by Ford, Reveals Colleague but took revenge

[SQ8]

Hi,

When you talk about Ford---you are talking about Ford USA. Ford had no real interest in the Jaguar and Land Rover---. They bought it to see if it would work for them----it did not---they dumped it.

Jaguar and land Rover may have a name in Britain and india---but in the U S---they are worthless vehicles---with very poor reliability and resale value----.

For americans---all jaguars were under powered---over priced cars----unreliable cars----. They never took of---and same thing with Land Rover----.

As Ford was not into high end luxury car market----it waved it good by---. Tata got the opportunity---so he snagged it----.

Remember---car sales 101----no car is a piece of sh-it-----. There is an ar-se made for every seat. The seat for the jaguar and LR was made for Tata---he bought em----.

The Jaguar is a British classic and its repute has NOTHING to do with India, regardless of whether India bought it or Russia. The slump in Jaguar was in the mid 90s to 2000s which is where Ford was ruining it. Ironically, Tata's new policies turned the company around and today it makes cars that rival BMWs. Which even BMW dealers admit so I take your analysis with a spoon of salt. That being said, they seem to be selling well. Ford had a reputation of Fix Or Repair Daily till very recently so it all goes down to management rather than repute.
Your comment is of the same grain as "Chinese products are cheap".. today the entire world manufactures in China; because all it took was good process practice and QC to make them churn out great product.

Tata just happens to own it and the Indians will go to any lengths to praise their own selves; that is in their ingrained nature. But that does not mean we dont acknowledge that he turned out a slumping icon(which was dying in FORD's hands) into a car maker which produces vehicles that make the BMW M5 worry.

To top off your claims which bear little merit despite your experience in the industry.
Jaguar Land Rover Reports U.S. Sales For June 2015

Considering the slump in China has hit automakers from around the world, Jaguar has managed to offset it in the UNITED STATES with strong sales. The resale may be bad in the US(Due to the American obsession with SuVs), but that does not mean that the brand is not selling or does not have value.

 

[IND151]

A typical Parsi response. Jamshed Ji was humiliated by Britishers from one hotel on the ground that they are being Indian. He made a thousand time better Taj right in front.

This what I call constructive revenge.

The Jaguar is a British classic and its repute has NOTHING to do with India, regardless of whether India bought it or Russia. The slump in Jaguar was in the mid 90s to 2000s which is where Ford was ruining it. Ironically, Tata's new policies turned the company around and today it makes cars that rival BMWs. Which even BMW dealers admit so I take your analysis with a spoon of salt. That being said, they seem to be selling well. Ford had a reputation of Fix Or Repair Daily till very recently so it all goes down to management rather than repute.
Your comment is of the same grain as "Chinese products are cheap".. today the entire world manufactures in China; because all it took was good process practice and QC to make them churn out great product.

Tata just happens to own it and the Indians will go to any lengths to praise their own selves; that is in their ingrained nature. But that does not mean we dont acknowledge that he turned out a slumping icon(which was dying in FORD's hands) into a car maker which produces vehicles that make the BMW M5 worry.

To top off your claims which bear little merit despite your experience in the industry.
Jaguar Land Rover Reports U.S. Sales For June 2015

Considering the slump in China has hit automakers from around the world, Jaguar has managed to offset it in the UNITED STATES with strong sales. The resale may be bad in the US(Due to the American obsession with SuVs), but that does not mean that the brand is not selling or does not have value.

@ 1st Upsized part- Thanks for Info.

@2nd Upsized part- couldnt agree more.

 

[MastanKhan]

Who Owns Jaguar and Land Rover?
Jaguar Land Rover's current owner has done a surprisingly good job with the old British brands

Jaguar hopes its new XE sedan will dent sales of BMW's 3-Series and give the old British brand a global boost. Image source: Jaguar Land Rover
How did iconic British automakers Jaguar and Land Rover become parts of the same company? And who owns them nowadays?
The short answer, at least to the second question, is that both British icons are now owned by Mumbai-based Tata Motors (NYSE:TTM), a subsidiary of India's vast Tata Group conglomerate.
The longer answer is a little more complicated, but it tells us a lot about how the global auto business has changed in recent years -- and how it's likely to change still further in the near future.
Ford brought them together, and then sold them to Tata Motors
Until Tata acquired them in 2008, Jaguar and Land Rover were both part of Ford's (NYSE:F) Premier Automotive Group, or PAG.
Ford had acquired Jaguar Cars in 1989, hoping to use it as the basis for an aggressive global push into luxury vehicles. Eventually, it was folded into PAG, a new Ford division that ultimately included the Aston Martin, Volvo, Land Rover, and Lincoln brands as well.
Ford's interest in luxury cars had everything to do with profits: Generally speaking, luxury vehicles have higher profit margins than mass-market models.
Nothing illustrates this more clearly than the recent experience of the Volkswagen Group. VW's Audi and Porsche brands generated just 16% of the group's total sales in 2014 -- but they brought in 62% of its operating profits.
Ford has long been reliant on profits from North America, and especially reliant on profits from pickups and SUVs sold in the United States. The idea behind PAG was to create another significant source of profits in order to reduce Ford's reliance on the U.S. truck market.
But it never quite panned out, and then-new CEO Alan Mulally dismantled PAG as part of his plan to turn Ford around. Aston Martin was sold to a group of investors, Volvo to Chinese automaker Geely, and Jaguar and Land Rover went to Tata Motors for $2.3 billion in 2008.
For Tata, Jaguar Land Rover has been a profitable acquisitionFord never managed to turn a profit with Jaguar or Land Rover, but Tata has managed to turn the two into a thriving business. Part of the reason for Tata's success is that while Ford tried to integrate Jaguar into its global product plan with mixed results, Tata has essentially run the two as a separate business -- and as a high priority.
That has worked out well so far. Jaguar Land Rover's sales have doubled over the last five years, and Tata has invested over £10 billion in new products and facilities for its luxury unit. Quality has taken a sharp turn for the better, too: Jaguar placed third in the most recent J.D. Power Initial Quality Study, ahead of all three of its big German luxury-sedan rivals.
And profits have followed. Jaguar Land Rover earned £2.6 billion (about $4.1 billion) in pre-tax profits in the year ended March 31, with a EBITDA margin of 18.9%.
But Jaguar Land Rover sold just 462,209 vehicles over that period, far behind luxury leader BMW's 1.8 million sales in 2014. Big investments will be needed to close that gap.
But can Tata make the big investments needed to compete?
Land Rover is thriving, but the core of Jaguar's model line is dated. The brand has put a lot of money and effort into launching its F-Type sports car, but its XJ and XK sedans are overdue for updates. A new compact sedan, the XE, should help boost sales -- but Tata will have to find a way to invest in the rest of the product line if it hopes to keep up with the Germans.
That said, with sales and profits solidly up, the future looks pretty decent for Jaguar Land Rover. The match-up may have seemed like an unlikely one back in 2008. After all, what did an Indian maker of (mostly) commercial trucks know about British luxury? But seven years later, it's clear -- so far, at least -- that Tata has been a good owner for Jaguar Land Rover.

 

[Beta-Fighter]

Sir,

You are the absolutely dumbest indian that I have yet to meet, Character is not your KIRDAR but your personal traits that reflects on your design---. If you did not know that----dig your head deeper into engineering and find out---why different nations design the same thing differently---.

And if you did not understand what I was saying---you should have asked for an explanation---.

Germans----do you think they make their cars just what the need is----. Their cars reflect their personality--their character---and who they are----. How about the swedes---or the Japanese---or the americans---.

Ever worked on a Saab or a Volvo---or a Toyota or a Honda----or a Mustang---or a Camaro---or a Mercedes or a BMW----

Mr intelligent - if you don't know about anything about engg and designing etc. cant argue, because i can only explain thing to an engineer , as layman , u can see thing differently.

Mr. just compare their SUV with Land/ Rang an their Mrec / BMW with Jaguar.

let see as per you)
German :- their Merc/ BMW cant even move 25km out of 600 km in Leh road ( which is one of the highest driveable road in world) 17000 + ft driving, one stupid Indian tried and his car came back on truck.

Another example, 150 + and 250 Mrec / BMW buyed in India by the groups are not in garages and in store. because they need butter paper kind of road to travel.
So as per you Germans personality / character is trait is female type / sensitive?

Indian :- Indian Tata reach Leh , 600km , crosses water streams, rocky , patch :

reflect personality :- Macho man, go everywhere.

@Oscar,

I have been in car sales in the U S possibly older than your age----so please----try your crap with someone else. Exception do happen----but BMW owners don't buy Jaguars----. They either switch to Audi or Acura. They don't buy Mercedes either. jaguar is last on their list of cars---it is a car for basically --- men in the U S---if that is what you wanted to hear

what is the price of BMW/ Audi / Merc and jaguar in US?

I think jaguar is more expensive in the BMW/ Audi/ Merc . so those people cant afford , that's why they buy same category cars. this is simple economics. your pocket should allow you to buy car and support it.

Jaguar started from 50 K
while BMW started from 33 K

their is huge difference. BTW check the difference in pricing of jaguar / BMW convertible?

you are in Car market and don't know about $$$ economic in car buying ? Not every TOM DICK Harry can buy Jaguar.

 

[nair]

Have seen a thread already on this........ Long back though.....

 

[MastanKhan]

Mr intelligent - if you don't know about anything about engg and designing etc. cant argue, because i can only explain thing to an engineer , as layman , u can see thing differently.

Mr. just compare their SUV with Land/ Rang an their Mrec / BMW with Jaguar.

let see as per you)
German :- their Merc/ BMW cant even move 25km out of 600 km in Leh road ( which is one of the highest driveable road in world) 17000 + ft driving, one stupid Indian tried and his car came back on truck.

Another example, 150 + and 250 Mrec / BMW buyed in India by the groups are not in garages and in store. because they need butter paper kind of road to travel.
So as per you Germans personality / character is trait is female type / sensitive?

Indian :- Indian Tata reach Leh , 600km , crosses water streams, rocky , patch :

reflect personality :- Macho man, go everywhere.



what is the price of BMW/ Audi / Merc and jaguar in US?

I think jaguar is more expensive in the BMW/ Audi/ Merc . so those people cant afford , that's why they buy same category cars. this is simple economics. your pocket should allow you to buy car and support it.

Jaguar started from 50 K
while BMW started from 33 K

their is huge difference. BTW check the difference in pricing of jaguar / BMW convertible?

you are in Car market and don't know about $$$ economic in car buying ? Not every TOM DICK Harry can buy Jaguar.

Sir,


Almost 3 decades in car sales and management---it is better to ask me how the car sales is done.

People don't BUY highline cars---they rather Lease them---short term Leases---that are subsidized by the manufacturer financing to make the payments reasonable.

The reason that a BMW or Merc or and Audi starts at 29k is that it is targeting fresh graduates----. And then it is a stair step progression to the next higher model as you get promoted and start making more money---.

Jaguar has a niche market----there is a certain group who buys that.

In the U S---if you have excellent credit and make 5000 dollars a month---are basically single---you can lease any jaguar---most of the audis---most of the bmw's---most of the Mercedes---.

In your reply ask me why is it character trait and ethnicity a part of the design of a vehicle----.

 

[surya kiran]

Jaguar has a niche market----there is a certain group who buys that.

Say it you naughty man. Which market ?

Anyways, I agree with you. The chap who buys a BMW does not buy a Merc. And a person who will buy a Merc very rarely will venture out to buy a BMW.

Jaguar, I always assumed was more about style and 'poshness'....finesse or something like that. In the US, while the segment you are saying holds for Jags, are you sure it holds true for Asia too? I think not?

 

[Donatello]

Mr intelligent - if you don't know about anything about engg and designing etc. cant argue, because i can only explain thing to an engineer , as layman , u can see thing differently.

Mr. just compare their SUV with Land/ Rang an their Mrec / BMW with Jaguar.

let see as per you)
German :- their Merc/ BMW cant even move 25km out of 600 km in Leh road ( which is one of the highest driveable road in world) 17000 + ft driving, one stupid Indian tried and his car came back on truck.

Another example, 150 + and 250 Mrec / BMW buyed in India by the groups are not in garages and in store. because they need butter paper kind of road to travel.
So as per you Germans personality / character is trait is female type / sensitive?

Indian :- Indian Tata reach Leh , 600km , crosses water streams, rocky , patch :

reflect personality :- Macho man, go everywhere.



what is the price of BMW/ Audi / Merc and jaguar in US?

I think jaguar is more expensive in the BMW/ Audi/ Merc . so those people cant afford , that's why they buy same category cars. this is simple economics. your pocket should allow you to buy car and support it.

Jaguar started from 50 K
while BMW started from 33 K

their is huge difference. BTW check the difference in pricing of jaguar / BMW convertible?

you are in Car market and don't know about $$$ economic in car buying ? Not every TOM DICK Harry can buy Jaguar.

Ever heard of the G-Wagen?

Tell me one car that is Indian designed and made that can come close to doing what the G-Wagen can do.

You can give a stupid person lots of money and he will find a way to get stuck off-roading or crash his car.

We have a W212 in our family, had a BMW 318i for a while......roads in Karachi are not really the best shape....yet we don't need 'butter roads' to drive them....infact they are a pleasure to drive.....along with the journeys on the highways/rural single lane roads.

 

[gslv mk3]

Ever heard of the G-Wagen?

Tell me one car that is Indian designed and made that can come close to doing what the G-Wagen can do.

No,there isn't any.At the same time a Tata SUV would cost a fraction of a G-Wagen.

 

[kbd-raaf]

Hi,

The thing is---that Tata got something that would increase his image---and as it is Indian owned----there would be more Indian buyers for these vehicles---so a perfect match.

Ford got rid of something that it did not need. They already got enough tax write offs.

Americans just don't care for british cars----. Even though the Jag and LR sales has increased---but that is by default of better economy---it has not taken off like Audi or BMW or Mercedez.

Do you have some sort of innate inability to use the correct syntax in written language?

 

[MastanKhan]

Do you have some sort of innate inability to use the correct syntax in written language?

Hi,

It happens when you are getting closer to 60----. As time is running out fast---you don't screw around looking for the correct 'syntax' in written language----you just get by with what you can get away with.

Does that explain what you wanted to know!

 

[Beta-Fighter]

Ever heard of the G-Wagen?

Ever heard of SUMO / Safari/ XUV/ Scropio / Gurkha?

Tell me one car that is Indian designed and made that can come close to doing what the G-Wagen can do.

SUMO/ Safari/ Scropio

You can give a stupid person lots of money and he will find a way to get stuck off-roading or crash his car.

We have a W212 in our family, had a BMW 318i for a while......roads in Karachi are not really the best shape....yet we don't need 'butter roads' to drive them....infact they are a pleasure to drive.....along with the journeys on the highways/rural single lane roads.

Well .... what GC of 318i?
B) What is dept of hole it can pass?
C) How much dept of water it can cross?

We have seen lot of BMW failed in waterlogged area...

 

[Donatello]

No,there isn't any.At the same time a Tata SUV would cost a fraction of a G-Wagen.

........and fraction of the aesthetics, quality, and dependability.

You get what you pay for.

 

[gslv mk3]

........and fraction of the aesthetics, quality, and dependability.

all three are improving due to obvious reasons

 

[Donatello]

all three are improving due to obvious reasons

......There is a very specific reason why Mercedes Benz tristar symbol is known all over the world........TATA is not......

but of course, i am sure given the choice, you'll enjoy your TATA.