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Rajput and Kshatriya mass conversion to Islam

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I think your definition of Kshatriyas is not correct. Yes some caste was mainly Kshatriya and some banyas but some guy from banya or others community did become Kshatriya after joining the army that time and vice versa.

I am not debating the definition of Kshatriya. Just because the Khatris happened to be traders, doesn't automatically make them not Kshatriya. After loosing their kingdoms to the invaders from the west, its possible they could have taken up trade as a means of survival. I mean if we go by the definition of Rajput today, then no Rajput would be a Rajput, since there are no more "Rajs".

It has been established that Khatri is the distorted form of Sanskrit word Kshatriya, and the Khatris themselves claim to be descendants of Kshatriyas, so we can't just write these claims off!
 
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They are khatris, who are different from kshatriyas.

Khatris trace their lineage from and are overwhelmingly accepted to be Kshatriya. In fact, they maintain a certain sense of superiority over Rajputs in the sense that they trace trace their roots back to vedic traditions whereas the Rajputs were later incorporated into the structure.

No bro, khatris are different from kshatriyas. Khatris were non banya traders of punjab and unlike banyas they were not averse to going into the army or tilling land

Actually, the Khatris adopted trade much later on in their history. That being said though, like all matters of history, there could be distortion on either my part or yours, I am not going to dig down and claim that I know this to be a fact when I am sure no one truly does.
 
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I am from bhatti clan and my great great grandfather converted to Islam. he was from 'Dokoya' village near amritsar. Bhattis were made outcast when they started inter clan marriages. So tehy settled mostly in in eastern side of Punjab near border of Rajhistan.
many rajputs in Pakistan still have some superiority complex especially Rao and Rana Rajputs. Otherwise preference in Pakistan is given on status of power and money and not on racial status mainly.
 
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@Nexus Many muslim rajputs even fought babur, ex, Raja Hassan Khan (who died on the battlefield).

Abdullah Bhatti (Dulla Bhatti) who fought against Akbar, in his honor lohri is celebrated.

And more.

The Muslim Rajputs of Sindh ruled for centuries.

Thanks.

I will read about those rajputs after few days....

And yes I know about samma and Soomro rajputs can you tell me any other Muslim Rajput Kingdoms ? Only tonk rajputs of gujarat created Gujarat saltunate.

Yes, it appears that our clansmen did well for themselves in India. I think sometimes it would be nice to have a community again, even many of our own relatives refuse to be identified as Sethis but instead have adopted the title of Sheikh, its quite disappointing.



We don't follow the Martial Race model in Pakistan and additionally no one knows about Khatris. Since there are very few of us. Most of the people I talk to are hearing about it for the first time.
Yeah khatris of punjab actually domindominate bollywood and media industry of Punjab.
 
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I am not debating the definition of Kshatriya. Just because the Khatris happened to be traders, doesn't automatically make them not Kshatriya. After loosing their kingdoms to the invaders from the west, its possible they could have taken up trade as a means of survival. I mean if we go by the definition of Rajput today, then no Rajput would be a Rajput, since there are no more "Rajs".

It has been established that Khatri is the distorted form of Sanskrit word Kshatriya, and the Khatris themselves claim to be descendants of Kshatriyas, so we can't just write these claims off!
It's ok mate if you believe you are something then nobody else should tell you otherwise.
 
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I think your definition of Kshatriyas is not correct. Yes some caste was mainly Kshatriya and some banyas but some guy from banya or others community did become Kshatriya after joining the army that time and vice versa.

Khatris are kshatriyas both historically and racially. This is even accepted by british and Indian government.

I know you being jat have troubled relationship with Khatris, Rajputs and Brahmins. But don't talk about things you know nothing.


One more thing, leave this "classification" thing to us brahmins. Its not your job.

The Janjuas and Ghakkars were alloed with Babur and Pashtuns...

Apart from that many rajput and panjabi muslim tribes were allied with either the mughals or the Pashtuns..

And used the opportunities to settle the score with other tribes aswell as gaining power for themselves.

Panjab it seems has always been divided among castes,tribes and individual communitie... where loyalties lied to ones tribe/caste rather than other panjabis.

Aren't janjuas one of the oldest muslim community in South Asia ?

My friend Nexus,

You need to study the "religion" of Islam (and not study current day Muslims) and you'll get your answer InshaAllah.
I have studied Islam. And trust me at one point I was on verge of becoming Muslim only reason I am not muslim is because of my Brahmin Race.

Even though Arab invaded Sind in the early 8th Century, conversion to Islam was few. There were some Muslim population pockets such as small percentage of people of Multan area converting to Ismaeli Muslims in the late 10th Century after Fatimids of Egypt captured Multan in 985 AD. History tells us that at the time Mahmud of Ghazna’s various invasions during first half of the 11th Century, majority of the population of the area were Hindus or Buddhists.

Data Ganj Baksh Hujwiri was among the early Sufis of the area. But it was only after Muizaddin Mohammed Bin Sam (Shahabuddin Ghori) captured Lahore in 1186 and established Muslim rule in North India after 2nd battle of Tarain in 1192 that of Sufis, Baba Farid ( d 1206 ) Bahauddin Zakria (d. 1267) Nizamuddin Aulia ( d. 1325) & Christi of Ajmer ( d.1236) started moving in. Majority of the conversions therefore occurred from the late 12th Century onwards.

Conversion to Islam was however a slow process. Since there is no caste system in Islam, majority of the initial converts being poor belonging to the lower cast. Conversion of Jats, Rajputs, Khatris & Gujjars etc was even a slower process. For example, as late as the time of Guru Nanak (1469- 1535) there were as many non- Muslims as Muslims in the what is now Pakistani Punjab. Majority of Jats were Hindus who later converted to Sikhs.

It is impossible to completely deny forced conversions, however, the very fact that there are far more Muslims in the Western & Eastern part of the subcontinent than around Delhi, Agra, Lukhnow, Allahabad & Patna, suggest the reason of conversion were probably spiritual and economic.

Muslim Rajputs of Punjab were probably among the Babur’s army that fought Rana Sangha.

Your post deserves positive ratings Sir.

Were muslim rajputs of punjab loyal soldiers of Mughals ? How Sindhi rajputs saw these invaders?
 
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I know you being jat have troubled relationship with Khatris, Rajputs and Brahmins. But don't talk about things you know nothing.
One more thing, leave this "classification" thing to us brahmins. Its not your job.
Well true we have bad history with Brahmins and Rajputs ,only good relationship we had with gujjars. First time i heard about khatris but whatever float your boat.

You brahmins think you are the god chosen people to speak about anything and that should be taken as god gospel.

I think people here can see why we had issues with you guys and only issues you had with us was we never toe down to anybody so if you have some superiority complex then expect a bullet in the head.
 
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I am Qaimkhani Rajput. My Ancestor Embrace Islam in 13th century his name was Nawab Qaim Khan who was the son of Raja Motay Rao Chahuhan the ruler of Doraya or Dadrewa (presently situated in the Bikaner District of Rajasthan). The first progenitor of Qaimkhanis was Karamchand born in the family of Moterao of Chahuhan Clan, the ruler of Dadrewa. Feroz Shah Tughluq converted him to Islam and named him Qaimkhan. his descendants were called Qaimkhani.
The above indicates he converted to Islam in about 1352. Nawab Qaim Khan continued as the Governor of Hisar in the times of Sultan Mehmood Shah Tughluq and Khizar Khan. Khizar defeated Daulat Khan Lodhi and imprisoned him under Qaimkhan at Hisar Ferozah. (It is the same Daulat Khan Lodi who was at the helms of the Delhi Sultanate for one year and three months).
They ruled between 1384 and 1731 with Fatehpur Rajasthan as the capital, when they were defeated by the Shekhwats, Rajput Qaimkhani nawabs ruled in Fatehpur, Jhunjhunu and Singhana

Khizar Khan then developed differences with Nawab Qaim Khan. Khizar Khan was on a military campaign when he received the information that Ameers Qaim Khan, Ikhtiar Khan, and all remnants belonging to the household of Sultan Mehmood Shah Tughlaq were planning to dethrone him. Khizar Khan left the campaign and while going back to Delhi, invited with deceit Nawab Qaim Khan and others at a meeting held at the banks of Jumna and murdered them all

2) did Muslim rajputs ever fought with Hindu Rajputs ? do they have martial history ?
Before 1947 No. My Grandfather was from Pillani Near Jaipur home of Birla family as well. they help birla to tranfer their money from Calcutta to Delhi in Second world war. even told us how they defend birla temple from lower hindu casts.

Kaimkhanis are in large number in both Indian and Pakistan Army
cant copy link as i am new here you can search Kaimkhanis in Indian Army

Two ex Chief of General Staff In Pakistan Army are kaimkhanis. they are in large number mainly in Pakistan Armored Corp
so they fought with each other after 1947.

3) how Muslim rajputs saw Islamic invaders such as Mughals, Afghans, Persians, Turks etc etc.?

Well our ancestors fought against them. But thank Allah i am muslim. Being a Muslim is more Important.

Good to know... do you use chauhan as surname ? And are you immigrant to pakistan as punjab and Sindh don't have any native Chauhan Rajputs.

Well true we have bad history with Brahmins and Rajputs ,only good relationship we had with gujjars. First time i heard about khatris but whatever float your boat.

You brahmins think you are the god chosen people to speak about anything and that should be taken as god gospel.

I think people here can see why we had issues with you guys and only issues you had with us was we never toe down to anybody so if you have some superiority complex then expect a bullet in the head.
You are sudras. Following religion that is created by us brahmins. Whole world view as sudras that's how we destroyed your kind. Even Muslim Pashtuns and Baloch here in this forum gives more respect to us Hindu brahmins than muslim Jats.

In your whole existence you were under either muslim or Rajput and Brahmin rule. So stop claiming to be a macho. You are not.

One more thing, we are not gods chosen people we are sons of God. Bhudev earthly gods. Thats why killing even a criminal brahmin was not permitted even in medival period.
 
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Good to know... do you use chauhan as surname ? And are you immigrant to pakistan as punjab and Sindh don't have any native Chauhan Rajputs.


You are sudras. Following religion that is created by us brahmins. Whole world view as sudras that's how we destroyed your kind.

In your whole existence you were under either muslim or Rajput and Brahmin rule. So stop claiming to be a macho. You are not.
lol We never followed your caste system. Jats are a paradigmatic example of community- and identity-formation in early modern Indian subcontinent. "Jat" is an elastic label applied to a wide-ranging, traditionally non-elite, community which had its origins in pastoralism in the lower Indus valley of Sindh.

We almost never care about who rule we are happy with either Muslims , Hindus or Sikhs. Everyone know who we are and there is nothing macho about us we are the most grounded people until we hit the brick wall.
 
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You guys are big mouth and beggars. All you guys do is talk :D

Why engage with known trolls? Ignore his bs, c**ts like him make other Brahmans look bad. He is most probably a false flagger anyways. You ll notice a recent trend, lot of false flaggers flaming and baiting Indians along the lines of, Hindu-Muslim, Hindu-Sikh, Hindu-Christian, Forward-Backward, North-South. That is the flavour of the month.

You have been here long enough to know who is a false flagging shit stirrer, and who is genuinely trying to have a discussion.
 
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Just like every discussion on PDF on rajputs, the posters always seems to forget about the most resilient, most organized and most culturally preserved rajputs of Rajasthan.. understandable as most here are punjabis.
The deserts of Rajasthan is full of history, from battle of Rajasthan against bin qasim to jauhar..
BTW here is my favorite Rajasthani Rajputs, whose couplets of bravery were written by mughals first and after they became a folklore.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amar_Singh_Rathore
You just dont kill dozens of imperial bodyguards in front of king and walk out of his palace like a boss, unless you are Amar singh Rathore:big_boss::big_boss:

If I remember rightly.
You must be atleast 1100 year old

That guy is a hero in your folklore.

For rescuing hindu and sikh girls from mughal forces,looting mughals,not paying any taxes, and kidnapping akbars wives?
Only in punjab or maybe in your sindh.. Rajasthanis( former Rajputana) has more than enough heroes to remember. That's why borders of Rajptana are still in thar and not divided like other north indian states like kashmir,punjab or sindh.
 
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These threads as so useless and I'm glad many Pakistanis don't care about caste bullshit, although its probably prevalent in some rural areas but in urban Pakistan people either care about money or physical features, still better then looking down upon someone because they are dalit or shudra or something.
 
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There is not any unique reason. Islam must have appealed to them. There are instances in history in which the bitter enemies of Islam became Muslims at the end.

@Nexus is banned. This is a very ultra-nationalistic forum and understandably very intolerant.
 
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