Rafale V PAF imminent

[Imran Khan]

ohhhh damn same thread which we have in 2005 since last 15 years you are threatening us on internet from MMRCA

 

[Thorough Pro]

and?????

Dazzler its happening i think its time to stop burying the head in the sand and hope it goes away.

The reality is that to date the indians have inducted nearly 200 su30mki and PAF have responded with 18 x F16/52 and the thunder.

rafale is a threat that will go even beyond su30mki not in numbers but in the level of technology that it brings

admittedly financially the indians will get raped in the process.

 

[Kompromat]

here we go again....

 

[airmarshal]

This will become reality in the next 45 days.

News is gathering rapidly in Paris & New Delhi that a interim deal for 18 fighters will be signed before end of February between Dassault and IAF. This is happening to ensure that the new indian govt in Spring post election does not rip up the contest and start again or more likely cancel MMRCA due to indian financial squeeze.

I am sure this has been discussed before never as this threat been so close to reality.

Probably the most advanced 4th generation fighter on the planet alongside euro fighter the PAF will have to plan to fight and defeat this threat in near future.

Rafale will 100% for sure lead any future surprise air campaign over pak air space. Outside the usa the french fighter has the most capability in jamming radars and sam sites over enemy airspace.

An article on what rafale brings to the indian air force

Fighter aircraft generations issue | Defense Issues


In short

When it arrives the rafale as per the artcile above will the best all rounded multi role fighter in this region. it could be argued other than buying Typhoon or F35 PAF may have to wait 10 to 15 Years for a suitable chinease response..

But whislt it awaits what will it do as a interim measure. ?/

what tactics

what short term quick purchase

With the way your negotiations are going PAF has to do nothing but enjoy popcorns. It will take you another 20 years to get all planes provided your negotiations end in near future.

Your politicians are neutralizing a potent threat by their impotency.

 

[Genesis]

We should focus on JF-17 till 2016 and try to make answer of Rafel with help of China which can be any fighter aircraft of China that can be equal response or greater which should be customized on on PAF request...

Pakistan should look to play the British or French role, due to Pakistan's size, it probably won't reach too high of a military spending without affecting the economy in a negative way. So design not 100% indigenous but enough to call it your own.

So, Pakistan's JF is a good start, Pakistan should start own research centers and factories and what not, we should work together, China makes the earlier version and Pakistan improves on it with own requirements.

Pakistan from now on should start thinking of indigenous designs, perhaps certain parts like engines are a little far for Pakistan, but a Pakistan design is always welcome.

2 heads is better than one.

Also, if we are facing the same enemy, the enemy will have a much harder time to deal with two rather than one fighter.

 

[Taygibay]

"50 JF-17 BLK 2 to be produced ( Production and induction will be completed in 2016 ) and they will be a match for the RAFALEs if PAF decides to include the chinese AESA which is a rough equivalent of AN/APG-77 ."

Really Rampage??? You really think that? I mean, I am all for national pride and as Genesis just said, I think the Thunder is a good idea for PAK but that line of yours is bulls..t! Payload 3,600 JF/10,600 Raffy . Ceiling and range are on par but combat radius favors the Rafale by 40%? So does max speed? 14 vs 7 hardpoints? Etc!
The SD-10 is given on specialists opinion as AIM C-5 equivalent and the MICA as over C-7? For instance, if the SD has longer range ( Meteor fixes that ) it cannot go short like MICA at -1km which in many cases will be a drawback. What's more, the MICA are always carried in combo EM-IR insuring kills from front and rear against all targets. And there will be twice as many as SD or other on the Thunder ( Up to 4x even ) especially as they are smaller in all dimensions and weight..
And Spectra is far in front of anything in the East.

If you intended to factor in PAF pilots abilities vs those of IAF ones, I'll let you dish it out with the desi guys. Similarly, if you expect Block 3, assuming it gets an AESA and the Meteor equivalent planned for it, maybe we'll have a discussion. But as is, I have to suggest that you don't say such things on a non-**** forum or you'll get laughed at, seriously!

I don't intend this as disrespect in anyway, man, just realistic view here. I hope and feel confident that your generals are more in touch with reality.

The Thunder is a great idea and I really wish there comes a successor to it that is even more National to allow **** MilAero industry to further develop but let's keep both feet firmly on the ground. Let the AC do the fly high thing, not your mind?

Good day all, Tay.

 

[HRK]

"50 JF-17 BLK 2 to be produced ( Production and induction will be completed in 2016 ) and they will be a match for the RAFALEs if PAF decides to include the chinese AESA which is a rough equivalent of AN/APG-77 ."

Really Rampage??? You really think that? I mean, I am all for national pride and as Genesis just said, I think the Thunder is a good idea for PAK but that line of yours is bulls..t! Payload 3,600 JF/10,600 Raffy . Ceiling and range are on par but combat radius favors the Rafale by 40%? So does max speed? 14 vs 7 hardpoints? Etc!
The SD-10 is given on specialists opinion as AIM C-5 equivalent and the MICA as over C-7? For instance, if the SD has longer range ( Meteor fixes that ) it cannot go short like MICA at -1km which in many cases will be a drawback. What's more, the MICA are always carried in combo EM-IR insuring kills from front and rear against all targets. And there will be twice as many as SD or other on the Thunder ( Up to 4x even ) especially as they are smaller in all dimensions and weight..
And Spectra is far in front of anything in the East.

If you intended to factor in PAF pilots abilities vs those of IAF ones, I'll let you dish it out with the desi guys. Similarly, if you expect Block 3, assuming it gets an AESA and the Meteor equivalent planned for it, maybe we'll have a discussion. But as is, I have to suggest that you don't say such things on a non-**** forum or you'll get laughed at, seriously!

I don't intend this as disrespect in anyway, man, just realistic view here. I hope and feel confident that your generals are more in touch with reality.

The Thunder is a great idea and I really wish there comes a successor to it that is even more National to allow **** MilAero industry to further develop but let's keep both feet firmly on the ground. Let the AC do the fly high thing, not your mind?

Good day all, Tay.

if you are comparing Rafale and JF-17 on 'one on one' basis than its you who are mistaken ....... pls compare role of these jets which they are expected to perform for their respected air forces .....

Rafale is expected to perform offensive role over Pakistani territory ...... so do you really think Indian will throw all 126 Rafale in a single go which will result a doomsday scenario for us ..... ???

JF is not supposed to be employed in this role ..... its shortfalls of range, and no. hardpoint can be managed by strategic application of this baby .... pls don't rant again ....

Rregards,

 

[Last Samuri]

Only a fool would compare a 100 million dollar rafale with a thunder. We are talking twenty years difference in technology.

Even the chinease don't have supercruise engines area radars or irst technology.

 

[AUz]

When the time comes, you'll see J-10Cs in PAF color...

Alot of time is remaining..stop mentally masturbating...

 

[trident2010]

Bhai logo, its been discussed so many times over and over. Rafale is still not in IAF inventory. When it comes then we can have these discussions.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Only a fool would compare a 100 million dollar rafale with a thunder. We are talking twenty years difference in technology.

Even the chinease don't have supercruise engines area radars or irst technology.

Take a close look you idiot.

Yeah you're right. Chinese don't have "area radars" but they produce AESA Radars.

 

[RAMPAGE]

"50 JF-17 BLK 2 to be produced ( Production and induction will be completed in 2016 ) and they will be a match for the RAFALEs if PAF decides to include the chinese AESA which is a rough equivalent of AN/APG-77 ."

Really Rampage??? You really think that? I mean, I am all for national pride and as Genesis just said, I think the Thunder is a good idea for PAK but that line of yours is bulls..t! Payload 3,600 JF/10,600 Raffy . Ceiling and range are on par but combat radius favors the Rafale by 40%? So does max speed? 14 vs 7 hardpoints? Etc!


The SD-10 is given on specialists opinion as AIM C-5 equivalent and the MICA as over C-7? For instance, if the SD has longer range ( Meteor fixes that ) it cannot go short like MICA at -1km which in many cases will be a drawback. What's more, the MICA are always carried in combo EM-IR insuring kills from front and rear against all targets. And there will be twice as many as SD or other on the Thunder ( Up to 4x even ) especially as they are smaller in all dimensions and weight..
And Spectra is far in front of anything in the East.

If you intended to factor in PAF pilots abilities vs those of IAF ones, I'll let you dish it out with the desi guys. Similarly, if you expect Block 3, assuming it gets an AESA and the Meteor equivalent planned for it, maybe we'll have a discussion. But as is, I have to suggest that you don't say such things on a non-**** forum or you'll get laughed at, seriously!

I don't intend this as disrespect in anyway, man, just realistic view here. I hope and feel confident that your generals are more in touch with reality.

The Thunder is a great idea and I really wish there comes a successor to it that is even more National to allow **** MilAero industry to further develop but let's keep both feet firmly on the ground. Let the AC do the fly high thing, not your mind?

Good day all, Tay.

First of all you should understand that i'm NOT comparing JF-17 blk 1 to Rafales. By the time Indians start Inducting Rafales in their fleet, our induction of JF-17 BLK 3 will also begin.


As for the highlighted part, JF-17 is a single engine aircraft which doesn't effect it's Air to Air capabilities. but yes, with twin engines the payload does increase and so does the hardpoints.If we take JF-17 blk 3's unit cost to be $45 Million. then we can easily throw 2 JF-17 blk 3s for every single Rafale that IAF can't send if we decide to Counter Mirage threat with a homegrown aircraft instead of buying from outside.

Also, SD-10A will not be the first and last BVR for the Thunders.

 

[Last Samuri]

I can see a few people getting agitated re rafale so i agree close the thread and lets stop discussing this until it actually happens.

e either when the interim deal is signed in 45 days

or the fnal contract for the other 108 License build fighters signed probably 12 months later.

IF AT ALL

looks dam cool though

 

[Taygibay]

@RAMPAGE
Ok, block 3 might be worth a discussion later when it comes but in all truth, your sentence that I quoted said : " 50 Block 2 ... they will be a match for Rafales ..."
No mention of block 3 there which prompted my answer to you.

As for the Chinese AESA, the one from the J-10B ( Note to fans : J-10A doesn't have it ) is not the right size to fit the Thunder. Yes, the J-10A's KLJ was reduced in size to fit the JF-17 but the same for the AESA is not acknowledged as of now. A great choice for the Thunder would be the Selex Raven ES-05 instead. The price is still unknown there too but that baby will be flying in the Gripen NG. It would have the additional advantages of pitting the Thunder at the Gripen on the export market with same main sensors and to diversify the Pakistani industry's technological base.

I keep pressing with the Thunder's successor though. I strongly believe that plans for that future need to be discussed by the PakGovt now. It is with that second gen indigenous effort that the worth will truly be realized. Or maybe in the interim, the follow-up on SD-10A that you mention could be made mostly in-house? That too would be a step to greater autonomy.

Still, even 2 vs 1, Thunder vs Rafale is a hard case, as I outlined max carry for AA missiles is 8 to 4 so that it would still come out equal 4+4 vs 8 ( including Meteor if needed ) with reach and EW suite still favoring the ( eventual but highly probable ) IAF bird.

( As an aside to HRK, one on one is covered above as I did not say it first but was answering; I know full well all Raffys won't be sent at Pakistan, say only 40 to 60 + 60 to 80 Su MKI + 20 M2000H+ + a couple dozen LCA whichever mark and the odd squadrons of Jags and old MiGs but if you feel secure dealing with those, fine, not my problem; and that line about strategic application against a much more potent enemy is void of sense, mate, as if the adversary cannot do the same, tssk! BTW if I ever rant, it will be clear, I promise you. )

There is one thing however that I can help do for your future points, Rampage, namely provide a better pic of the Chinese AESA than the one you gave, direct from my HD.
f8jmt.jpg at Free Image Hosting
( It takes a while to load but worth the wait! )

And if you are interested, here is a piece about a PLAAF exercise that throws doubts on the J-10 :
两夺金头盔 中国空战王
-观察者网
I'll let you judge the validity of it but I found it interesting personally and while a bit off topic, it does comfort my opinion that the future of PAF should come from a new local fighter as soon as possible with as much indigenous content as possible. Geo-politically speaking, it could tap into the Muslim countries reservoir, Indonesia and others to the East which may not want to buy Chinese and the gulf states, all of which are becoming wary of the US umbrella? Go guys go!

Talk to you all later, good day, Tay.

 

[RAMPAGE]

@RAMPAGE
Ok, block 3 might be worth a discussion later when it comes but in all truth, your sentence that I quoted said : " 50 Block 2 ... they will be a match for Rafales ..."

I said that they are more than a match for any 4th gen aircraft "Currently" in IAF's Inventory !!!