Rafale Fighters India is Buying Can't Match Chinese Fighters: Russian Envoy

[Donatello]

If that were true the Indians would have simply let the French deal with Pakistan and go for the cheaper ,less time consuming variant of building the numbers on their SU30 fleet.After all,this would have saved money and give them aircrafts which they knew for sure that they are "vastly superior" to French technologies in the JF17 and even Rafale.Alas,this theory sounds silly when we think that a professional Air Force which allready operates SU30's just decided out of thin air after a long selection process to spend more money on an inferior aircraft.

Russian ambassador is just being butthurt.If Russia wants to still have a share in the Indian market they should be more professional in their weapons deliveries and tech sharings.This isn't the Cold War anymore,it's a buyers market,those with good money go for the best,lately,the best aren't Russian weapons.

The fact that Russian SU30MKIs are India's frontline, does give Russian ambassador and arms makers some firm ground to stand on.

 

[帅的一匹]

Dear Envoy Please tell me which fighter could deal with Rafale except SU35?

The original su27 Russia sold to China really sucks, J11b is a totally different story.

 

[cerberus]

Dear Envoy Please tell me which fighter could deal with Rafale except SU35?

The original su27 Russia sold to China really sucks, J11b is a totally different story.

Maybe MiG - 31BM IN A2A scenario

 

[帅的一匹]

Maybe MiG - 31BM IN A2A scenario

Mig31 has very big RCS, it is sitting duck in front of Rafale.

 

[Mercenary]

When are these Rafale fighters suppose to be inducted into the Indian Air Force?

 

[MastanKhan]

You are wrong on that assertion.

India blocked JF-17 package by overpaying France for upgrade of India's Mirage-2000. It was a $2.4 Billion contract vs $1.6 Billion contract of JF-17.After upgrade, a Mirage 2000 costs more than a Rafael.

At the time when JF-17 deal was undercut, even primary evaluation process for MMCRA was not over and France did not knew whether Rafael would be selected as Eurofighter and F-18 were equal contenders for that tender.

Sir,

On upgrading the Mirage M2K's---india had no leverage over france---india was a CAPTIVE AUDIENCE---you had no where to go with the upgrade package but france.

Under normal circumstances---france does not succumb to pressure---it sold to both sides of the conflict in the past----but here the situation was different.

With no new orders---the Rafale production line was coming to a stop---it had slowed down to 1 aircraft in 1 or 2 months----. France was facing loss of engineers and trained staff for building aircraft---and that was irreplaceable.

Once the line shutdown---the French would their lose technical staff---and that would have been a big loss.

 

[cerberus]

Mig31 has very big RCS, it is sitting duck in front of Rafale.

RCS not always whole thing in air combat If that's the benchmark why f-15 still is known as one of the most potent fighter in Usaf inventory.in BVR engagement mig-31 is still at a par with many of the modern fighters flying today

 

[temp1994]

Sir,

On upgrading the Mirage M2K's---india had no leverage over france---india was a CAPTIVE AUDIENCE---you had no where to go with the upgrade package but france.

Sir,

1. Mirage 2000's of India did not required an upgrade, per se. They were more than capable of their role in current configuration.

2. The upgradation of Mirage 2000's is not very drastic.There is no upgradation in Engine and frame, there is upgrade only of Electronic systems and heat seeking missiles. Israelis offered to upgrade Mirage 2000's at half the price which French were quoting.

3.As i stated earlier, JF-17 deal was undercut even before MMRCA's primary technical trials were over. While there was no hope for F-16, Gripen, and Mig 35; but Rafael, Euro-fighter, and F-18 were neck to neck in the race. At that time, it was not clear that Rafael would be selected.

And selection parameters of MMRCA were set up in such a way that there is very less scope of subjectivity. Mirage upgradation deal is in proper timeframe as that of JF-17 deal.

4. JF-17's deal was worth $1.6 billion. It would be stupid of India to upstage it by $20 billion. Upstaging it with $2.1 billion deal makes sense, more so when same companies were involved in both deals + Both deals were os same kind ( Electronics based ).

5. MMRCA deal is not without strategic benefit to India. It has lead to closing down of French route of acquisition for Pakistan, which is important in light of fact that France is only country which would not sanction Pakistan ( or for that matter, India ) for reason which does are not a concern of France. This was stated tactically by French when they said that they are looking forward to improve relation with India from that of Buyer-seller relationship to a more strategically oriented one.

This has left Pakistan with option of only US ( which come with conditions attached ) and Chinese weapon systems.

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir,

1. Mirage 2000's of India did not required an upgrade, per se. They were more than capable of their role in current configuration.

2. The upgradation of Mirage 2000's is not very drastic.There is no upgradation in Engine and frame, there is upgrade only of Electronic systems and heat seeking missiles. Israelis offered to upgrade Mirage 2000's at half the price which French were quoting.

3.As i stated earlier, JF-17 deal was undercut even before MMRCA's primary technical trials were over. While there was no hope for F-16, Gripen, and Mig 35; but Rafael, Euro-fighter, and F-18 were neck to neck in the race. At that time, it was not clear that Rafael would be selected.

And selection parameters of MMRCA were set up in such a way that there is very less scope of subjectivity. Mirage upgradation deal is in proper timeframe as that of JF-17 deal.

4. JF-17's deal was worth $1.6 billion. It would be stupid of India to upstage it by $20 billion. Upstaging it with $2.1 billion deal makes sense, more so when same companies were involved in both deals + Both deals were os same kind ( Electronics based ).

5. MMRCA deal is not without strategic benefit to India. It has lead to closing down of French route of acquisition for Pakistan, which is important in light of fact that France is only country which would not sanction Pakistan ( or for that matter, India ) for reason which does are not a concern of France. This was stated tactically by French when they said that they are looking forward to improve relation with India from that of Buyer-seller relationship to a more strategically oriented one.

This has left Pakistan with option of only US ( which come with conditions attached ) and Chinese weapon systems.

Sir,

Dude believe what you want to----.

 

[kaykay]

Sir,

Dude believe what you want to----.

LOLs.
The Global Intelligence Files - INDIA/FRANCE/PAKISTAN/MIL- India clears Mirage upgrade deal, Paris turns down Pak news
@temp1994

 

[MastanKhan]

LOLs.
The Global Intelligence Files - INDIA/FRANCE/PAKISTAN/MIL- India clears Mirage upgrade deal, Paris turns down Pak news
@temp1994

Hi,

That was just for public consumption---. Are you people really that -----. You have nowhere to go for an m2k upgrade but france----. France has two captive audiences---Pakistan and india----. India cannot go anywhere else for its aircraft----Pakistan wants this package---a 2 billion dollar deal is not negated by a 3 billion dollar deal when the deal maker has the ballz of both the parties in his hands-----.

France is notorious for selling to both the parties for centuries----. For it to do something this drastic---it has a drastic problem at hand----ie the loss of its fighter aircraft program completely if there are no more orders for rafale.

If rafale goes---French aeronautical industry is shut down for good---. All of its infrastructure in place for aircraft manufacturing would be gone----. The engineers and technical staff once lost would not be able to train the next generation.

 

[kaykay]

Hi,

That was just for public consumption---. Are you people really that -----. You have nowhere to go for an m2k upgrade but france----. France has two captive audiences---Pakistan and india----. India cannot go anywhere else for its aircraft----Pakistan wants this package---a 2 billion dollar deal is not negated by a 3 billion dollar deal when the deal maker has the ballz of both the parties in his hands-----.

France is notorious for selling to both the parties for centuries----. For it to do something this drastic---it has a drastic problem at hand----ie the loss of its fighter aircraft program completely if there are no more orders for rafale.

If rafale goes---French aeronautical industry is shut down for good---. All of its infrastructure in place for aircraft manufacturing would be gone----. The engineers and technical staff once lost would not be able to train the next generation.

Aw seriously? Those mirages were not in bad condition and even without upgrades, they would have done fine.
And not just upgrades, India had number of cards to play without MMRCA like Scorpene deal, follow on scorpene deal, upcoming 4 LPD deal worth 5 billions for which DCNS has been partnered with Indian pipavav shipyard etc. We were not left with options but instead even without Rafale deal, France would have lost deals worth more than 15 billion dollar.
PS: We selected Rafale becoz It indeed satisfied all our requirements along with Typhoon( rest ones failed technical evaluations like high altitude evaluations in Leh etc).

 

[MastanKhan]

Aw seriously? Those mirages were not in bad condition and even without upgrades, they would have done fine.
And not just upgrades, India had number of cards to play without MMRCA like Scorpene deal, follow on scorpene deal, upcoming 4 LPD deal worth 5 billions for which DCNS has been partnered with Indian pipavav shipyard etc. We were not left with options but instead even without Rafale deal, France would have lost deals worth more than 15 billion dollar.
PS: We selected Rafale becoz It indeed satisfied all our requirements along with Typhoon( rest ones failed technical evaluations like high altitude evaluations in Leh etc).

Sir,

Who says rafale did not satisfy your needs---it is a great aircraft---one of the best in its class---. You guys posts are getting from stupid to brainless----!!!!!!!!!!

 

[kaykay]

Sir,

Who says rafale did not satisfy your needs---it is a great aircraft---one of the best in its class---. You guys posts are getting from stupid to brainless----!!!!!!!!!!

LOLs Its you who is saying that India selected Rafale to stop 1.6 billion Pakistani deal. Let other members decide whose post is stupid and brainless.

 

[temp1994]

You have nowhere to go for an m2k upgrade but france.

NO, We had Israel.

Israel offered same upgrades at half of price quoted by French.