Questions and grand designs of urdu being state Language of united pak. Why is it trivilised?
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Possible - but in a utopian world the segregation of populations would have diluted. West Pakistanis would have businesses in the east and vice versa
People would move around so the exposure would be greater. After all there is a sizable Bengali population in Pakistan not just of natives but labor as well.
What was key is overcoming racism and tribalism which the current west Pakistani crop still struggles to do
Yes, you are completely right about the uses of Urdu and Persian in old Bengal. People in old Dhaka still speak Urdu. Urdu was no more an issue after Bengali became the state language. And it remained so until 1971.
But, after the war, some BAL people started to make issues with Urdu telling people that the language movement was the sole issue that Bangladesh was formed. Bloody idiots!! Always distorting history!!
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peagle
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Hi,
I have wondering very recently, that E.P was the majority pop of the whole sovereign. Yet people were poorer, earned less and that province brought in more export dollar for the whole sovereign for much of united paks life, whilst also importing less consumer products.
It's not a far stretch to say bengali People were exploited. Also with competent rulers they spend more gdp per capita where that area spruns more growth, the refore bringing in more dollars into the country. Also supporting policy that generates more growth.
That happens to be also the most of the populace. This can be seen all over the world, but not in United pak.
Education was not easily accessible for many, Education materials were also not easily accessible for many.
The vast majority did not have tv's very luck sob's had radios. Electricity was like the equivalent of miracles.
If you were a Dr and had a push bike, people were gawking at you, like this man made it. Human pedal power of 1, those internal combustion engines were just a scam.
Most people had no direct to direct interaction of the martial race paks, so when jinnah said to the majority of population that urdu will be the only language in united pak, what was this Hindu thinking?
Did jinnah have any sort of thought of how the majority of the people will adopt urdu? Or was this a conspiracy, as in another thread, member admitted that Pakistanis thought bengalis as people at the back of the ship, while they were at the front. To suppress bengalis?
This is a silly understanding of history that keeps getting repeated even by historians.
What Jinnah said was right and proper, there is nothing wrong with his plan to have Urdu as the national language.
What everyone keeps missing, or forgetting is that he never opposed Bengali, not once. In that same speech he said very clearly that we need a single national language so we can communicate with each other, there are so many other reasons.
BUT, he also said that each province is free to use and propagate their own mother tongue, Bengalis were free to use Bengalis as they wished, how they wished, but at federal level you needed a single language, Urdu was by 1947 associated as a language of the Muslims of South Asia, including Bengalis.
Most of the religious literature in our region is in Urdu, even today. I have met Bengalis who say much of the religious education in Bangladesh is in Urdu. One of my serious girlfriend was Bengali, she used to translate meaning of Urdu words in songs to me, and I'm Pakistani by birth. So let's understands the issue properly, before shyting on Urdu.
He never stopped Bengalis from using their language, I have a book of all his speeches, in that period, I will soon start threads on what he thought of Bengalis, and I'm sure you will be more then pleasantly surprised, far too many lies have been told without questioning, without justifications, it is truly sad.
Pakistan's First passport, currency, stamps had writing in Urdu, English and Bengali, Bengali was given plenty of respect and plenty of space.
Not in Punjabi, Not in Sindhi, Not in Pashto, Not in Balochi, Not in Kashmiri, Not in Saraiki, but Bengali, the very first passport, currency and stamps, these are symbols of state, and you were given far more respect then has been recognised.
Pakistani currency was officially known as the Taka in East Pakistan, not Rupee but Taka, that's accommodation and showing respect. Yes, there was bad, but there was also lot of good, especially when you start scratching the surface.
I have known few Bengalis in my life, I am yet to meet one who doesn't understand Urdu, Young and old, whether it's Urdu or the Bollywood Urdu/Hindi, but they do understand it. Why is that not a problem if Urdu is a factor? if you can understand Urdu for TV and films, you could accept Urdu for nation building, especially when your language was given more respect then other regional languages.
The whole issue turned political, and the idiots in charge at the time were not able to do a course correction with this issue, and it spiralled into permanent stupidity.
It is good to judge history, but please do it fairly, otherwise, what's the point? Because it's just lies.
Following are his quotations, word for word, specifically regarding the use of Bengali language in East Pakistan.
21 March 1948,
Speech at a Public meeting at Dacca.
"Let me tell you in the clearest language that there is no truth that your normal life is going to be touched or disturbed so far as your Bengali language is concerned. But ultimately it is for you, the people of this province, to decide what shall be the language of your province."
There was controversy started by the Indian press at the time, he mentions that, and reaffirms his position on the Bengali language.
24 March 1948,
Speech at the Dacca University Convocation.
"Let me restate my views on the question of a state language for Pakistan. For Official use in this province, the people of the province can choose any language they wish. This question will be decided solely in accordance with the wishes of the people of this province alone."
His position on the use of Bengali language was very clear, it is a shame it has been distorted so much.
@fitpOsitive @Asimzranger @One_Nation @Azadkashmir @Bilal9 @Genghis khan1 @SQ8 @bluesky
Maula Jatt
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dgaf tbvh, least of my concerns
TheSolution
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This is just plain stupid, using language as a conspiracy to suppress Bengalis?
No, it was supposed to be used as a lingua franca for communication and to unite a diverse group of people, nothing else.
As for it being difficult for you, let me remind you that Pashtuns' mother tongue is Pushto, yet they are able to speak both languages just fine quite commonly. Plus Bangladesh happened mainly due to politics and racism than simply language.
No, it was supposed to be used as a lingua franca for communication and to unite a diverse group of people, nothing else.
As for it being difficult for you, let me remind you that Pashtuns' mother tongue is Pushto, yet they are able to speak both languages just fine quite commonly. Plus Bangladesh happened mainly due to politics and racism than simply language.
Bold part: Jinnah's assertion to impose Urdu at the federal level was very wrong. Bengali people did not read, write or speak in Urdu. All of them were taking education in English and Bengali when Pakistan was formed in 1947.
Jimmah himself did not speak Urdu. He was a Pakka Sahib always speaking in English. Anyway, with this introduction of Urdu at the Federal level all the Bengali-speaking educated people would have become fully uneducated by this new standard.
Almost all the civil govt jobs would have gone to non-Bengalis from India and almost all the military jobs to Pathan and Punjabis. It would have made Bengalis a 4th class citizen of Pakistan instead of 3rd class that we enjoyed in the name of the same religion.
I personally speak, read and write Urdu much better than some half-educated Punjabis and Pathans. I got Letter Marks in Urdu in my matriculation. But, I personally do not think Urdu should have been imposed on us by force.
It was a wrong decision taken by Jinnah and the Muslim League top-ups.
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Bilal9
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The Airline also used Bangla Script. There was and remains a huge propaganda effort in Bangladesh (egged on by Indians) on how one sided about Urdu - Pakistan govt. was.
Some of the militants of the 1952 language movement in Bangladesh were Indian (I believe either Salaam or Barkat, can't remember). This has been an Indian saajish from day one (1947) to break Pakistan, and Bhutto/Yahya played right into RAW's hands.
These guys handled it like a bull in a china shop. First by imposing martial law (instead of dealing with the Sheikh for some autonomy in exchange for residual control), then operation searchlight...
Today's Chetona a$$holes in Bangladesh are the progeny of these Indian agents. Keeping alive Indian Hindu traditions and cultural propaganda in Bangladesh as a means of cultural hegemony. While India itself has now moved on into Western culture. Oh the Irony !!
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Saajish or what, do you think Bengali-speaking educated people should have accepted Urdu as a language of education? This assertion itself is a conspiracy.
Do you really understand the implications of Urdu as a federal language? Bengali people would have become uneducated the next day and all the jobs would go to non-Bengali Muhajirs. It was certainly not a cherished outcome.
Jinnah and Muslim League should have told about it before the Pakistan movement took root.
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Mirzali Khan
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Hi,
I have wondering very recently, that E.P was the majority pop of the whole sovereign. Yet people were poorer, earned less and that province brought in more export dollar for the whole sovereign for much of united paks life, whilst also importing less consumer products.
It's not a far stretch to say bengali People were exploited. Also with competent rulers they spend more gdp per capita where that area spruns more growth, the refore bringing in more dollars into the country. Also supporting policy that generates more growth.
That happens to be also the most of the populace. This can be seen all over the world, but not in United pak.
Education was not easily accessible for many, Education materials were also not easily accessible for many.
The vast majority did not have tv's very luck sob's had radios. Electricity was like the equivalent of miracles.
If you were a Dr and had a push bike, people were gawking at you
Most people had no direct to direct interaction of the martial race paks, so when jinnah said to the majority of population that urdu will be the only language in united pak, what was this Hindu thinking?
Did jinnah have any sort of thought of how the majority of the people will adopt urdu? Or was this a conspiracy, as in another thread, member admitted that Pakistanis thought bengalis as people at the back of the ship, while they were at the front. To suppress bengalis?
Urdu is foreign to Pakistan.
I have no idea why it was made a national language.
Before English the people here spoke Farsi as an administrative language.
Persian was the state language of north India including northern Pakistan since Muhammed Ghori won the war in 1190 and put Kutubuddin Aibak as his deputy in Delhi. Entire north India came under the influence of the Persian language.
Bengal was conquered by Ikhtieruddin Muhammad Bakhtiar Khaliji sometime between 1198 to 1203 after which Persia remained the Official Court language of Bengal/ entire Hindustan till 1830 when the British govt replaced it with English.
Urdu was created with the mixing of Persian words with the local Hindustani/ Hindi language. This is why Urdu-speaking people can easily communicate with Hindi-speaking people though the alphabets are different.
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Bilal9
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I agree @bluesky bhai. But a compromise and a partial reprieve or solution could have been reached. The fact that it was not, speaks to the rigidity of both sides which is unfortunate. Maybe we could have accepted English as a common language.
I can say that even today, if you go to Tamil Nadu or Kerala, most people don't speak Hindi. That does not mean that they have stopped agreeing to be part of the Indian Union, as fragile as it is. I see protests to this day in the south of India against Hindi as a cultural and linguistic tool that they are only partially accepting.
The difficulty of imposing common languages is quite tough in certain areas where cultural (especially educational and literary) traditions are strong. But Indians and RAW used it from 1947 as a continual tool to break up Pakistan and to alienate both wings. Bengali good and Urdu bad. It did not stay limited to job prospects only.
Every Hijabi was weird and every religious Muslim person was a terrorist to chetonabadis. And of course Pakistan is an enemy entity. Pakistanis are exploiters.
Chetona people in Bangladesh use the same tropes as the RSS and VHP in India do against Muslims. It is a long term plan and Chetona people in Bangladesh are implementers of this plan. This brainwashing continues to this day, Recently we have seen some fascist Hindu school headmaster ba$tards import Indian syllabus textbooks from India using Bangladeshi funds to teach local Muslim kids about Hindu deities. There was an uproar and it got flushed in the media. These Hindu fascists in Bangladesh are getting bolder and bolder by the day - thanks to Hasina.
They never know when to stop.
Genghis khan1
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Zia ur Rehman committed treachery . If there was a land route between east and west Pakistan, history would have remembered Zia ur Rehman as a traitor, who died like a dog.
In 1837, the British East India Company chose Urdu as the language to replace Persian across northern India during Company rule; Persian had until this point served as the court language of various Indo-Islamic empires
Metcalf, Barbara D. (2014). Islamic Revival in British India: Deoband, 1860-1900. Princeton University Press. pp. 207–. ISBN 978-1-4008-5610-7. The basis of that shift was the decision made by the government in 1837 to replace Persian as court language by the various vernaculars of the country. Urdu was identified as the regional vernacular in Bihar, Oudh, the North-Western Provinces, and Punjab, and hence was made the language of government across upper India.
Urdu - Wikipedia
-blitzkrieg-
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Actually farsi was foreign to land today called Pakistan..urdu was born in ghaznavid era lahore.
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