What's new

Quagmire, Phase 2: The Invasion of Pakistan

yarmouk

BANNED

New Recruit

Joined
Jun 27, 2009
Messages
65
Reaction score
0
Quagmire, Phase 2: The Invasion of Pakistan
William Pfaff
Article ID: 1418 | 647 Reads


The United States has just invaded Cambodia. The name of Cambodia this time is Pakistan, but otherwise it’s the same story as in Indochina in 1970.

An American army, deeply frustrated by its inability to defeat an anti-American insurgent movement despite years of struggle, decides that the key to victory lies in a neighboring country. In 1970, the problem was the Ho Chi Minh Trail in Cambodia. Today it is Taliban and al-Qaida bases inside Pakistan, which the United States has been attacking from the air for some time, with controversial “collateral damage.”

George W. Bush has now authorized independent ground assaults on Taliban and al-Qaida targets in Pakistan’s Tribal Territories, without consultation with Pakistan authorities. These already have begun.

This follows a period of tension, with some armed clashes, between American and Pakistani military units, the latter defending “Pakistan’s national sovereignty.” Pakistan public opinion seems largely against “America’s war” being fought inside Pakistan.

Washington’s decision was made known just in time for the seventh anniversary of the 9/11 attacks that opened the first phase of the “war on terror,” after which “nothing could ever be the same.” We no doubt have now begun phase two.

The eventual outcome of the American intervention in Cambodia in 1970 was Communist overthrow of the American-sponsored military government in that country, followed by genocide. The future consequences in (nuclear-armed) Pakistan await.

There is every reason to think they may include civil protest and disorder in the country, political crisis, a major rise in the strength of Pakistan’s own Islamic fundamentalist movement and, conceivably, a small war between the United States and the Pakistan army, which is the central institution in the country, has a mind of its own and is not a negligible military force.

In Afghanistan, American and NATO forces have been complaining for many months that victory over the Taliban was impossible so long as there were secure Taliban bases in Pakistan’s largely inaccessible Tribal Territories.

Pakistan’s former president, Pervez Musharraf, was told by his American allies to clean the Taliban out of the Territories or the U.S. Army and NATO would do it for him. U.S. presidential candidate Barack Obama made the same threat. John McCain concurred. Musharraf had been looking for a negotiated arrangement with the tribesmen.

Pakistan’s military intelligence services created the Taliban while they were collaborating with the CIA to form the mujahadeen that drove the Soviet Union out of Afghanistan. Many in the service still support the Taliban as a useful instrument against India, and to keep Afghanistan out of the hands of more dangerous enemies.

Musharraf was forced out of office. The U.S. brought in exiled former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, expected to be cooperative. She was assassinated, presumably by Islamic extremists. Her widower has been elected to take her place and declares himself an enemy of terrorism. However, the United States has already taken the matter into its own hands.

In the Vietnamese case, the American military command held that it could win the war by invading Cambodia to cut the so-called Ho Chi Minh Trail, along which supplies and arms for the Viet Cong Communist insurrection were being transported. The argument made was that cutting this route would starve the Viet Cong of supplies.

Initially, the unhappy Prince Sihanouk of Cambodia, desperately trying to keep his country out of the Vietnam War, was persuaded to turn a blind eye to U.S. bombing of the trail. A military coup followed in 1970, installing an American puppet general. B-52 saturation bombing ensued, without the desired military effect, but killing many Cambodians.

The joint U.S. and South Vietnamese “incursion” to cut the trail came in April 1970; it simply pushed the supply operations deeper into Cambodia. Richard Nixon said he acted to prove that the United States was not “a second-rate power.” “If, when the chips are down, the world’s most powerful nation acts like a pitiful helpless giant, the forces of totalitarianism and anarchy will threaten free nations and free institutions throughout the world.”

The native Cambodian Khmer Rouge subsequently defeated the American-backed military regime in Phnom Penh. Genocide followed, the “killing fields,” on which the United States turned its back, condemning the triumphant Vietnamese Communist government when it later invaded Cambodia to stop the killing.
 
actually it is less than an year old, and still looks fresh!!

US is going to throw us in the dustbin like a used condom
 
Last edited:
However, the United States has already taken the matter into its own hands.

I have never seen such a stupid statement for Pakistan in my life.Pakistan is not Iraq nor cambodia US leaders know it very well, our Army is one of strongest armies in South Aisa, we have also have stronge ties with China and Iran.

We are facing insuregency from group of terrorist organisations supported by our enemies(Israel,India,Afghan Karzai Regime) , there is no urgent solution for this problem may take many decades to bring things at normal level.

US and PA should give full suport to local pushtoon tribes in Afghanistan and Pakistan to eliminate Talaban and other terrorist organisations.

US should understand the root cause(epi center) of terrorism? which is Kashmir dispute,basically India is main hurdle for peace in this region.

Armed resistance in Kashmir will not stop untill India dont comply with UN resolutions on Kashmir .
 
Destroying Pakistan to Make It Safe

Eric S. Margolis 2009

Paris May 18, 2009

The US keeps kicking hornet’s nests around the globe and wondering why it continues getting stung.



The latest example: Pakistan’s once beautiful Swat Valley has been turned into a battlefield. Last week, Pakistan finally bowed to Washington’s angry demands to unleash its military against rebellious Pashtun tribesmen of Northwest Frontier Province (NWFP) – who are collectively mislabeled `Taliban’ in the west. They are not the Afghan Taliban, but it’s convenient fore the western media and Pentagon to slap that label on them.

The Obama administration had threatened to stop $1.2 billion annual cash payments to bankrupt Pakistan’s political and military leadership, and block $5.5 billion future aid, unless Islamabad sent its soldiers into Pakistan’s turbulent NWFP along the Afghan frontier and crushed attempts to re-establish Islamic Law and autonomy. Many people in the region want Islamic law because in utterly corrupt Pakistan it represents the only honest and swift judicial system. The only other `law’ available has to be bought.

Pakistan’s army and air force claimed to have killed 1,000 `terrorists’ (read: mostly civilians) and almost emptied the valley of its inhabitants. UN sources now say the operation has created close to 2 million refugees.

Pakistan’s armed forces, who are being paid by the US to fight Pashtun tribes, have scored a brilliant victory against their own people. Too bad Pakistan’s military does not manage to do as well in wars against India. Blasting civilians at home, however, is much safer and more profitable.

Unable to pacify Afghanistan’s Pashtun tribes (again, lumped together as `Taliban’), a deeply frustrated Washington has begun tearing Pakistan apart in an effort to end Pashtun resistance in both nations. CIA drone aircraft have so far killed over 700 Pakistani Pashtun. Only 6% were militants, according to Pakistan’s media, the rest civilians.

Pashtun, also improperly called Pathan, are the world’s largest tribal people. Fifteen million live in Afghanistan, forming half its population. Twenty-six million live right across the border in Pakistan.
Up to three million Afghan Pashtun are refugees in Pakistan.

True to their strategy of divide and rule, Britain’s imperialists split the Pashtun by an artificial border, the Durand Line (which became today’s Afghan-Pak border). Pashtun reject this artificial border.

Many Pashtun tribes agreed to join Pakistan in 1947 provided much of their homeland remain autonomous and free of government troops. Pashtun Swat, where Islamic Sharia law was in force, only joined Pakistan in 1969 after assurances of autonomy and religious freedom.

As Pakistan’s Pashtun increasingly aided Pashtun resistance in Afghanistan, US `Predator’ drones began attacking them. Washington forced Islamabad to violate its own constitution by sending troops into Pashtun lands. The result was the current explosion of Pashtun anger.

I have been to war with Pashtun and have seen their legendary courage, strong sense of honor, and determination. They are also hugely quarrelsome, feuding, prickly, and notorious for seeking revenge. .
One learns never threaten a Pashtun or give him ultimatums. These mountain warriors defied the US by refusing to hand over Osama bin Laden because he was a hero of the anti-Soviet war and their guest. Doing would have violated their ancient code of `Pashtunwali’ that still guides them.

Now, Washington’s ham-handed policies and last week’s Swat atrocity threaten to ignite Pakistan’s second worst nightmare after invasion by India: that its 26 million Pashtun will secede and join Afghanistan’s Pashtun to form an independent Pashtun state, Pashtunistan.

This would rend Pakistan asunder, probably provoke its restive Baluchi tribes to secede, and might tempt mighty India to intervene military, risking nuclear war with beleaguered Pakistan.

The Pashtun of Northwest Frontier have no intention or capability of moving into Pakistan’s other provinces, Punjab, Sindh and Baluchistan. They just want to be left alone. Alarms of a `Taliban takeover of Pakistan’ are driven by ignorance or propaganda.

Lowland Pakistanis have repeatedly rejected militant Islamic parties. Many have little love for Pashtun, whom they regard as mountain rustics best avoided. Pakistan’s Islamist parties have traditionally won less than 10% of the national vote.

Nor are Pakistan’s well-guarded nuclear weapons a danger – at least not yet. Alarms about Pakistan’s nukes come from neoconservative fabricators worried about Israel.

The real danger is in the US acting like an enraged mastodon, trampling Pakistan under foot, and forcing Islamabad’s military to make war on its own people. Pakistan could end up like US-occupied Iraq, split into three parts and helpless.

If this continues, at some point nationalistic Pakistani soldiers may rebel against the corrupt generals and politicians on Washington’s payroll.

Equally ominous, a poor people’s uprising spreading across Pakistan – also mislabeled `Taliban’ - threatens a radical national rebellion similar to India’s spreading Maoist Naxalite rebellion.

As in Iraq, ignorance and military arrogance continue to drive US Afghan policy. Obama’s people have no understanding what they are getting into in `Afpak’ than did the Bush administration. They will learn the hard way.
 
well it is rit to say that pakistan is yesterday's combodia. only difference is that we have a much stronger army and ISI.
 
yarmouk
You dig up a couple of odd ball opeds I hope it is not a reflection of your mind.

To start the op-ed “Quagmire, Phase 2: The Invasion of Pakistan” is about as convoluted as a mobius drawing can get.

For you who declares to be Pakistani to accept the following:
“The eventual outcome of the American intervention in Cambodia in 1970 was Communist overthrow of the American-sponsored military government in that country, followed by genocide. The future consequences in (nuclear-armed) Pakistan await.

There is every reason to think they may include civil protest and disorder in the country, political crisis, a major rise in the strength of Pakistan’s own Islamic fundamentalist movement and, conceivably, a small war between the United States and the Pakistan army, which is the central institution in the country, has a mind of its own and is not a negligible military force.
”
with out question, leaves a lot of question on your perspectives of your country Pakistan, assuming you call Pakistan home..

To accept with out question directly says you see your nation Pakistan being taken over by Islamic fundamentalists. These are the people who beheaded, bombed innocent people, not to mention blew up mosques while people were at prayer.
This whole op-ed says your nation will accept that. You say you accept that because you can not be bothered to question what you read. You blindly dump it out and have the audacity to say “Look its anti US so it’s got to be good”.
Actually I read this as anti Pakistan and says its people are dimwits because they can not be bothered to protect their own country from Islamismic terrorists.


Keep it up you I hope don’t reflect the real Pakistani.

As for your other attempt to look as if you know something “Destroying Pakistan to Make It Safe” Wow.
Lest start with the first paragraph.
“Pakistan’s once beautiful Swat Valley has been turned into a battlefield. Last week, Pakistan finally bowed to Washington’s angry demands to unleash its military against rebellious Pashtun tribesmen of Northwest Frontier Province (NWFP) – who are collectively mislabeled `Taliban’ in the west. They are not the Afghan Taliban, but it’s convenient fore the western media and Pentagon to slap that label on them.”

Oh I thought the TTP were some form of Taliban. Not only that they did state that a democratic process was not Islamic, still beheaded people, bombed and raped. The national legal systems was not Islamic, and in general denounced the State of Pakistan.

The move into Swat by the PA was done by the Pakistan Government without force or threat from the US.
Both you and the writer of this op-ed don’t have the foggiest.

After that the whole piece looses credibility, you with it.


While you are at it have the courtesy to post links to these entertainments. That is called forum etiquette.
 
ratUS, why do u have ur knicker in a twist? It's not me. Eric has covered Pakistan for two decades. Anyway, he is not alone in his opinion. Many other independant journalists share that view.

As i said earlier: swirch off PTV and Fox, and u will feel better

"While you are at it have the courtesy to post links to these entertainments. That is called forum etiquette. "

Its from Eric's website: www.ericmargolis.com

"The move into Swat by the PA was done by the Pakistan Government without force or threat from the US."

Oh really?
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/23056-swat-deal-us-wants-fighting-not-peace-pakistan.html

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/...05997399&pagename=Zone-English-News/NWELayout
 
Last edited:
yarmouk
You dig up a couple of odd ball opeds I hope it is not a reflection of your mind.

To start the op-ed “Quagmire, Phase 2: The Invasion of Pakistan” is about as convoluted as a mobius drawing can get.

No actually its pretty straight forward and it makes perfect sense, you sell your soul to the devil and you end up in Hell

For you who declares to be Pakistani to accept the following:
“The eventual outcome of the American intervention in Cambodia in 1970 was Communist overthrow of the American-sponsored military government in that country, followed by genocide. The future consequences in (nuclear-armed) Pakistan await.

There is every reason to think they may include civil protest and disorder in the country, political crisis, a major rise in the strength of Pakistan’s own Islamic fundamentalist movement and, conceivably, a small war between the United States and the Pakistan army, which is the central institution in the country, has a mind of its own and is not a negligible military force.
”
with out question, leaves a lot of question on your perspectives of your country Pakistan, assuming you call Pakistan home..

For you to deny such a prospect without considering the possibility shows your naivety

Of course we hope and pray that it doesn't come to that but the analysis quoted is one which could occur, maybe not to the same extent but it is feasible.In fact I would go as far as to say that its probably exactly what the U.S has planned



To accept with out question directly says you see your nation Pakistan being taken over by Islamic fundamentalists. These are the people who beheaded, bombed innocent people, not to mention blew up mosques while people were at prayer.

For you to tow the GOP line and parrot its pathetic propaganda just goes to show you haven't got a mind of your own and are led like a goat to the slaughter.It shows that your not discerning in the least and are perfectly content to be used as cannon fodder.

This whole op-ed says your nation will accept that
.

No actually its an analysis as to what could very well take place and not an incite into how it will be received

You say you accept that because you can not be bothered to question what you read.

This would be hilarious if the circumstances were not so serious, I don't expect you will ever come to understand the irony of what you have written.


You blindly dump it out and have the audacity to say “Look its anti US so it’s got to be good”.

I doubt that was the point the brother was trying to get at but I wouldn't expect you to be able to decipher that.

Actually I read this as anti Pakistan and says its people are dimwits because they can not be bothered to protect their own country from Islamismic terrorists.

You are perfectly content to sit back and see your country be run by a convicted criminal who claimed he was unfit to stand trial due to mental health issues and you shamelessly point the finger of blame at someone else.



Keep it up you I hope don’t reflect the real Pakistani.


What you hope for or not doesn't matter one Iota to us

Oh I thought the TTP were some form of Taliban. Not only that they did state that a democratic process was not Islamic,

Did they state that? That might be an outrageous statement to make in your estimation or the lack thereof but I've got news for you Raty, guess what? shock horror, democracy is UnIslamic


still beheaded people, bombed and raped.

This is war bad things happen GOP has bombed many many civilians and Moques but what do you care?, raped is a fragment of your delusionary imagination


The national legal systems was not Islamic,


Ive got more hard truths for you my boy, more shock horror guess what? The Pakistani Judiciary is UnIslamic. Your obviously not a Muslim or even an apostate from a Muslim background as you would have known this.So what your bringing as proof of the extremism of the Taiban is in actual fact the TRUE Islamic perspective in this case as well as in the case of democracy being against Islam. What an own goal! You've just shot yourself in the foot.



and in general denounced the State of Pakistan.


No not the state they love Pakistan more than you can Imagine and would gladly sacrifice themselves for Pakistan and many have already done so In Kashmir etc.What they denounce is the fraudulent government.

The move into Swat by the PA was done by the Pakistan Government without force or threat from the US.

Are you by any chance ingesting hallucinogenic fungi out there in the out back or maybe you think we are for us to believe such crap?


Both you and the writer of this op-ed don’t have the foggiest.

Its obvious from what you have written that your not the sharpest tool in the box

After that the whole piece looses credibility, you with it.

After you tried to imply that the Pakistani judiciary was an Islamic one or that the democratic process was Islamic, (something which no one with even an atoms weight of Islamic knowledge would try to do by the way) you have proved beyond any reasonable or even unreasonable doubt that you should keep out of such discussions.You have produced by far the worst arguments that I have seen on this forum, and that really is saying something.

While you are at it have the courtesy to post links to these entertainments. That is called forum etiquette.

Maybe you should think about actually knowing what your talking about before you engage in such discussions.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom