Qandeel Baloch, NOT just a honor killing case.

[Mav3rick]

What is your take on this?

On what exactly?

 

[Zarvan]

Sir why do you always emphasize on punishments. This is not done; punishment, that is not done; punishment. Islam is not punishment based religion. But when state makes a law, everyone has to follow it.

Now give me an example from Islamic history where vulgarity was a punishable offence. There is none. Prophet Muhammad P.B.U.H cursed vulgar people. That is it. You are becoming more loyal to master than the master.

For a true Muslim it is enough that the Prophet dislikes vulgarity.

Coming to the law part. Choosing a dress is basic right of every human. You can't force them to wear a particular dress. Still, to make a law, you need exact definition of a thing law to be made upon.

This is how 'vulgar' shows up in the dictionary:

vulgar
2. making explicit and offensive reference to sex or bodily functions; coarse and rude.

There starts a slippery slop. You will find this definitions fit on many dresses and bodily functions. Of course laws can't be made on your thoughts and imaginations. This slop will take you to a dress code like this:

Prophet P.B.U.H is telling you a better way to encourge people to have a decent dress, so that when western type cultures choose Islam they find it a convenient religion.

Sorry but in time of RASOOL SAW no Muslim women dared to wear pathetic clothes after order of Hijab and came Mr. In time of Sahaba all kind of Haram if committed repeatedly were punishable offence for example Hazrat UMAR RA used to lash those who used to do romantic poetry. In Islam those who break the law and thing it's a joke have to be punished specially when some one is doing indecent act in public. I give a dam about what dictonary has to say about vulgar for Muslim only definition matters is definition of Islam and those who want to break the law of Islam should be ready to face consequences in return they are not going to get flowers in return. Sorry choosing a dress is your right but it has to be according to Islamic Guidelines going outside it is not allowed in Islamic society and if you would do state should stop it and also you would get respect in return and in fact every society member has right to stop it.

Sir why do you always emphasize on punishments. This is not done; punishment, that is not done; punishment. Islam is not punishment based religion. But when state makes a law, everyone has to follow it.

Now give me an example from Islamic history where vulgarity was a punishable offence. There is none. Prophet Muhammad P.B.U.H cursed vulgar people. That is it. You are becoming more loyal to master than the master.

For a true Muslim it is enough that the Prophet dislikes vulgarity.

Coming to the law part. Choosing a dress is basic right of every human. You can't force them to wear a particular dress. Still, to make a law, you need exact definition of a thing law to be made upon.

This is how 'vulgar' shows up in the dictionary:

vulgar
2. making explicit and offensive reference to sex or bodily functions; coarse and rude.

There starts a slippery slop. You will find this definitions fit on many dresses and bodily functions. Of course laws can't be made on your thoughts and imaginations. This slop will take you to a dress code like this:

Prophet P.B.U.H is telling you a better way to encourge people to have a decent dress, so that when western type cultures choose Islam they find it a convenient religion.

As for example you quoted few days back of RASOOL SAW turning his face away. Well that women was Hazrat Asma RA who was sister of Hazrat Ayesha RA. So when RASOOL SAW took her on side tore here duppatta off which was see through and gave her new thick chaddar even Hazrat ASMA RA was not given any option to think and than change here clothes it was immediately done with force

 

[Salik]

Sorry but in time of RASOOL SAW no Muslim women dared to wear pathetic clothes after order of Hijab and came Mr. In time of Sahaba all kind of Haram if committed repeatedly were punishable offence for example Hazrat UMAR RA used to lash those who used to do romantic poetry. In Islam those who break the law and thing it's a joke have to be punished specially when some one is doing indecent act in public. I give a dam about what dictonary has to say about vulgar for Muslim only definition matters is definition of Islam and those who want to break the law of Islam should be ready to face consequences in return they are not going to get flowers in return. Sorry choosing a dress is your right but it has to be according to Islamic Guidelines going outside it is not allowed in Islamic society and if you would do state should stop it and also you would get respect in return and in fact every society member has right to stop it.

Every society member has right to stop but within his jurisdiction. You can't go beyond what is your area of authority. So what a common man can do is know it bad in heart and report concerned authorities.

How can you declare an act as punishable offence when God has used the word 'Forgiveness'. The Holy Quran say;

O Prophet! Tell your wives and daughters and the believing women that they should draw over themselves their jilbab (outer garments) (when in public); this will be more conducive to their being recognized (as decent women) and not harassed. But God is indeed oft-forgiving, most merciful. (33:59)

 

[Zarvan]

Every society member has right to stop but within his jurisdiction. You can't go beyond what is your area of authority. So what a common man can do is know it bad in heart and report concerned authorities.

How can you declare an act as punishable offence when God has used the word 'Forgiveness'. The Holy Quran say;

O Prophet! Tell your wives and daughters and the believing women that they should draw over themselves their jilbab (outer garments) (when in public); this will be more conducive to their being recognized (as decent women) and not harassed. But God is indeed oft-forgiving, most merciful. (33:59)

ALLAH has also promised his wrath many times including when Muslims see evil and doesn't stop it. So that is why I am saying again and again that state should wake up and do its duty of spreading good and stopping evil and their failure would only lead to people start doing it on their own. Once HAZRAT UMAR RA when he was caliph stood on minbar and asked Muslims what if I stop following and implementing Quran and Sunnah what will you people do, one man stood up and took out his sword and said we would do this Hazrat UMAR RA appreciated that person and thanked ALLAH that if he ever goes astray his people will bring him back to right path by force.

 

[Zarvan]

Don't change the topic please. There is long list of evil that you see and you must stop. But stop in a proper way. Thats why we talk about system and rule of law. Do you have any proper plan or just talking out of emotions and threatening in every second post.

Topic, how can you declare liberal dress as punishable offence that you see as vulgar. What is your ideal dress. And what you recommed for yourself, can you recommend for whole of country. Do you think everyone thinks and enterprets like you.

The problem is that there is so much diversity. If you impose anything particular, you may break the dream.

In Islam breaking laws of Quran and Sunnah that to in public is punishable offence. Specially with crap clothing you are hitting at moral and social behavior of society and can't be tolerated. Sorry Islam is same and those who want to have some other lifestyle are free to go to west but this crap westernization won't be tolerated any more so better state wakes up or soon people will. Even alcohol besides had no punishment but Sahabad did decided to make it a criminal offence because it affects and damages society and same is the case with vulgarity that is why Hazrat UMAR RA used to lash those who used to do romantic poetry.

 

[Salik]

ALLAH has also promised his wrath many times including when Muslims see evil and doesn't stop it. So that is why I am saying again and again that state should wake up and do its duty of spreading good and stopping evil and their failure would only lead to people start doing it on their own. Once HAZRAT UMAR RA when he was caliph stood on minbar and asked Muslims what if I stop following and implementing Quran and Sunnah what will you people do, one man stood up and took out his sword and said we would do this Hazrat UMAR RA appreciated that person and thanked ALLAH that if he ever goes astray his people will bring him back to right path by force.

Don't change the topic please. There is long list of evil that you see and you must stop. But stop in a proper way. Thats why we talk about system and rule of law. Do you have any proper plan or just talking out of emotions and threatening in every second post.

Topic, how can you declare liberal dress as punishable offence that you see as vulgar. What is your ideal dress. And what you recommend for yourself, can you recommend for whole of country. Do you think everyone thinks and enterprets like you.

The problem is that there is so much diversity. If you impose anything particular, you may break the dream.

 

[Zarvan]

Don't change the topic please. There is long list of evil that you see and you must stop. But stop in a proper way. Thats why we talk about system and rule of law. Do you have any proper plan or just talking out of emotions and threatening in every second post.

Topic, how can you declare liberal dress as punishable offence that you see as vulgar. What is your ideal dress. And what you recommend for yourself, can you recommend for whole of country. Do you think everyone thinks and enterprets like you.

The problem is that there is so much diversity. If you impose anything particular, you may break the dream.

I want to stop it in proper way that is why I am repeating again and again that state should do it and yes all kinds of corruption should be stopped whether bad or expired food being sold or bribery or other stuff.

But that also doesn't mean that if these things are happening in society that vulgarity should be and would be tolerated. Therefore if state won't stop this than people will and people will do it and How they think is right way to do it. That doesn't mean I want to see that happening but that is the obvious result if state will keep ignoring its duty of Amar bil Maruf Nahi Anil Munkar ( that is stopping evil and spreading halal ). People now a days burn robbers alive that is obviously not good thing but will keep happening until state do its duty and people can feel that state is doing its duty.

Well ALLAH has told what kind of dress Muslim has to wear and anything other than that is not acceptable specially in public. Those who want to break that law should expect some sort of punishment from Islamic state.

 

[Salik]

In Islam breaking laws of Quran and Sunnah that to in public is punishable offence. Specially with crap clothing you are hitting at moral and social behavior of society and can't be tolerated. Sorry Islam is same and those who want to have some other lifestyle are free to go to west but this crap westernization won't be tolerated any more so better state wakes up or soon people will. Even alcohol besides had no punishment but Sahabad did decided to make it a criminal offence because it affects and damages society and same is the case with vulgarity that is why Hazrat UMAR RA used to lash those who used to do romantic poetry.

So west is not in your list of islamic revolution.

I see desert environment is so dry that even romantic poetry is not allowed. Actually everything has its place. You can't play romantic movie song in parliament. This is the rule to keep everything at its place. Right. Otherwise Surah Rahman exclusively talks about qualities of heavenly women (Hoor). And in its tafseer, scholars talked even in detail.

Now if whole philosophy of modesty is orbiting around dress then why does Islam say to lower your gaze at times. As the Holy Quran says:

Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: and God is well acquainted with all that they do. (24:31)

I want to stop it in proper way that is why I am repeating again and again that state should do it and yes all kinds of corruption should be stopped whether bad or expired food being sold or bribery or other stuff.

But that also doesn't mean that if these things are happening in society that vulgarity should be and would be tolerated. Therefore if state won't stop this than people will and people will do it and How they think is right way to do it. That doesn't mean I want to see that happening but that is the obvious result if state will keep ignoring its duty of Amar bil Maruf Nahi Anil Munkar ( that is stopping evil and spreading halal ). People now a days burn robbers alive that is obviously not good thing but will keep happening until state do its duty and people can feel that state is doing its duty.

Every five years you are given chance to bring right people in govt. and make proper laws. You are talking as if you are living in perpetual dictatorship. You don't find right people who is to be blamed for that?

In this situation there is an option for you. After first four Caliphs many great Sahaba sidelined themselves from state affairs. You can always do that.

 

[Zarvan]

So west is not in your list of islamic revolution.

I see desert environment is so dry that even romantic poetry is not allowed. Actually everything has its place. You can't play romantic movie song in parliament. This is the rule to keep everything at its place. Right. Otherwise Surah Rahman exclusively talks about qualities of heavenly women (Hoor). And in its tafseer, scholars talked even in detail.

Now if whole philosophy of modesty is orbiting around dress then why does Islam say to lower your gaze at times. As the Holy Quran says:

Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: and God is well acquainted with all that they do. (24:31)



Every five years you are given chance to bring right people in govt. and make proper laws. You are talking as if you are living in perpetual dictatorship. You don't find right people who is to be blamed for that?

In this situation there is an option for you. After first four Caliphs many great Sahaba sidelined themselves from state affairs. You can always do that.

Sorry Islam can never be sidelined from state affairs those who will try to do it would fail. First understand what Sahaba did and why did it. Yes Surah Rahman talks about hoors and honors will be given in heaven not in world and yes both men and women have to keep eyes down still wearing Islamic dress order remains valid and has to be followed and breaking it has severe consequences and state may stop that otherwise people will whether someone likes it or not.

 

[Salik]

Sorry Islam can never be sidelined from state affairs those who will try to do it would fail. First understand what Sahaba did and why did it. Yes Surah Rahman talks about hoors and honors will be given in heaven not in world and yes both men and women have to keep eyes down still wearing Islamic dress order remains valid and has to be followed and breaking it has severe consequences and state may stop that otherwise people will whether someone likes it or not.

You didn't reply why would people do that? Are they living in perpetual dictatorship. Every five years they get chance to bring good people and make proper laws. If they and you can't find right people who is to be blamed for that.

Yes you'll find right people if slowly and steadily this process continues. No magic wand will do it overnight.

I think we have reached the end of this discussion. I leave it upto you and readers.

 

[ghazi52]

 

[ThunderCat]

The indian society removed the tradition since atleast 90 years. I am not blaming the Pakistan as a country but pakistani society.

What??? Do you even know what you wrote? What else did India ban? Poverty? Pollution? Try to reflect on my reply before replying again.