قہر برپا کیا تم نے نبیﷺکا نام لے کر

[RangeMaster]

That he was born roughly about 200 years after our holy prophet saw


you haven't even perused this thread properly otherwise you won't be asking these foolish question not only foolish question but false allegations too


Not by some people but by the whole ummah and who is saying not to consult hadith but in the light of quran and sunnah


I learned salah not from hadith but from my father and mother and my imam musjid.imam abu hanifa did not learn his salah from sahih bukhari otherwise all of us would be doing rafayadan
go get educated I am not your teacher

So there is no need of Hadith.Millions of students learning books of Hadith in Madarassa are doing a useless thing.And in madarassa where your Imam e Masjid learned use to teach Hadiths to their students not telling them that as we've seen our teachers praying so you see how we pray and copy that.
In evening prayer go to your Imam e Masjud and ask him where did he learned the knowledge of Islam.And what is the inportance of Hadith in Islam.
Imam Bukhari was borned 200 years after Holy Prophet and that means shady background of hadith.In that case Your Imam e Masjid borned 1400 years after Holy Prophet and you are following his teachings blindly

Non of the above mentioned sources are sahih save one ie from bukhari

The the burden of proof is on your shoulders not Mine it's your statement not Mine

That was my statement?Are you mad?

Its disputed

Tell me how is it disputed?Its clear and true.

That he was born roughly about 200 years after our holy prophet saw


you haven't even perused this thread properly otherwise you won't be asking these foolish question not only foolish question but false allegations too


Not by some people but by the whole ummah and who is saying not to consult hadith but in the light of quran and sunnah


I learned salah not from hadith but from my father and mother and my imam musjid.imam abu hanifa did not learn his salah from sahih bukhari otherwise all of us would be doing rafayadan
go get educated I am not your teacher

No offence Just a humble request and suggestion.
Aftet evening prayer go to your Imam e Masjid and put all your questions in front of him about Hadith etc.He knows better then both of us.Our fight will continue without benefits.And to stop that please think about my request.

 

[Fawadqasim1]

So there is no need of Hadith.Millions of students learning books of Hadith in Madarassa are doing a useless thing.And in madarassa where your Imam e Masjid learned use to teach Hadiths to their students not telling them that as we've seen our teachers praying so you see how we pray and copy that.
In evening prayer go to your Imam e Masjud and ask him where did he learned the knowledge of Islam.And what is the inportance of Hadith in Islam.
Imam Bukhari was borned 200 years after Holy Prophet and that means shady background of hadith.In that case Your Imam e Masjid borned 1400 years after Holy Prophet and you are following his teachings blindly




That was my statement?Are you mad?


Tell me how is it disputed?Its clear and true.

But Holy Prophet didnot do that.
Is this your quote or mine

So there is no need of Hadith.Millions of students learning books of Hadith in Madarassa are doing a useless thing.And in madarassa where your Imam e Masjid learned use to teach Hadiths to their students not telling them that as we've seen our teachers praying so you see how we pray and copy that.
In evening prayer go to your Imam e Masjud and ask him where did he learned the knowledge of Islam.And what is the inportance of Hadith in Islam.
Imam Bukhari was borned 200 years after Holy Prophet and that means shady background of hadith.In that case Your Imam e Masjid borned 1400 years after Holy Prophet and you are following his teachings blindly




That was my statement?Are you mad?


Tell me how is it disputed?Its clear and true.

But Holy Prophet didnot do that.post #435
Was that my quote or yours, I asked how so? And you failed to answer my question.
the hadith should be read and taught in the light of quran and sunnah e mutawatir it is the best source of seerah of our prophet saw dont repeat things that I have not stated or said. For exact date of birth consult fath ul bari dont ask me again.
Sorry for the clumsiness of my posts I am posting via mobile Huawei y6ii using ufone 3g imagine.

 

[RangeMaster]

But Holy Prophet didnot do that.
Is this yor quote or main

But Holy Prophet didnot do that.post #435
Was that my quote or yours, I asked how so? And you failed to answer my question.
the hadith should be read and taught in the light of quran and sunnah e mutawatir it is the best source of seerah of our prophet saw dont repeat things that I have not stated or said. For exact date of birth consult fath ul bari dont ask me again.
Sorry for the clumsiness of my posts I am posting via mobile Huawei y6ii using ufone 3g imagine.

What I've said in last line
I have said no offence and please think about my request visit your local mosque Imam and ask him all the questions whether I told you or you told me.I can answer you on above post but this talk will go unlimited without bearing fruits.

 

[Fawadqasim1]

What I've said in last line
I have said no offence and please think about my request visit your local mosque Imam and ask him all the questions whether I told you or you told me.I can answer you on above post but this talk will go unlimited without bearing fruits.

I gave you the example of imam abu hanifa I need your comments on it you are my brother in islam I will learn from you and you may learn something from me.for me its not about winning but about the discourse. Which is an end in itself

 

[RangeMaster]

I gave you the example of imam abu hanifa I need your comments on it you are my brother in islam I will learn from you and you may learn something from me.for me its not about winning but about the discourse. Which is an end in itself

I know that this keyboard war of ours will never come to an end that's why I said that.
Anyway May Allah bless both of us and show us the right way to success.

 

[Fawadqasim1]

What is the basic definition of justice in islamic jurisprudence? placing things in their rightful place.

• Verily! Allah commands that you should render back the trusts to those to whom they are due; and that when you judge between men, you judge with justice. Verily, how excellent is the teaching which He (Allâh) gives you! Truly, Allâh is Ever All-Hearer, All-Seer. Sura An-Nisa:58 (4:58)
• It is derived from the abovementioned
• Ayah e mubarika and other ayahs of the holy quran
• doing injustice in the hierarchy of the sources of islam is indeed one of the greatest injustices. And what can be the fruits of such injustice?
  
• You and i are all reaping it.
• The true hierarchy
• 1) QURAN the real hakam and touchstone
• 2) sunnah e mutawatir agreed upon by the whole ummah save a certain part
• 3) hadit the third source it is best source for seerah of our prophet saw and also for the purposes of islamic jurisprudence. But should be interpreted in the light of the above two
• because it contains a lot of akhbar e aahaad.
• Via my huawei y6ii

 

[RangeMaster]

You are really dumb Mullah . Where I mocked hadith? I simply asked that would you drink urine of camel as medicine as mentioned in Bukhari and Muslim ? It was question you dumb and you are talking bull shit instead of giving answer and yes you are insulting verses of Quran and character of Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) by saying that he did ordered to kill those people in personal revenge who insulted him so you are actually lowering the status of Prophet(PBUH) rehamt ul almeen and Sahaba as well as you are ignoring those verses and plenty of others Hadiths which are projecting his personality in positive way.

Secondly you are liar as well as you twisted Hadiths to make it fit with your extreme mindset. People have exposed your lies here where no punishment was for blasphemy as one unknown guy associated lie with Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) and others committed murder as well and boht vague and unclear in their message. I have been explained my point in previous posts and now stop quoting me again idiot

You are really dumb Mullah . Where I mocked hadith? I simply asked that would you drink urine of camel as medicine as mentioned in Bukhari and Muslim ? It was question you dumb and you are talking bull shit instead of giving answer and yes you are insulting verses of Quran and character of Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) by saying that he did ordered to kill those people in personal revenge who insulted him so you are actually lowering the status of Prophet(PBUH) rehamt ul almeen and Sahaba as well as you are ignoring those verses and plenty of others Hadiths which are projecting his personality in positive way.

Secondly you are liar as well as you twisted Hadiths to make it fit with your extreme mindset. People have exposed your lies here where no punishment was for blasphemy as one unknown guy associated lie with Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) and others committed murder as well and boht vague and unclear in their message. I have been explained my point in previous posts and now stop quoting me again idiot

No offence...
Lets stop that keyboard war before it could reach verbal abuses.Your logics are inacceptable to me and mine to yours.Morever this is defence forum so talk about upcoming PA assault rifle will be better.
So my suggestion is both of us should consult the Iman of our Masjid as he knows better then us.In the end I pray that May Allah bless both of us and show us the right path to success.

 

[JK!]

Alhamdulillah I am fortunate living in the UK to meet and pray with brothers from all over the world at my local masjid. We are also fortunate to be receive khutbah and lessons from two Sheikhs one from Egypt and the other from Kuwait.

I put this matter to them yesterday and they made it clear this is not Islamic. The Egyptian Sheikh said the correct approach IF any blasphemy had been committed would have been to try and pass on wisdom and to correct the other person. He said on punishment lies solely with Allah for this matter based on Islamic Jurisprudence. Even if it took years of effort it would still have been better than killing a person.

Furthermore any punishment for this should have been handled by the state given the seriousness of the accusation.

My personal thoughts on the killing are it's a mafia style organised hit to silence a vocal critic by Mashal Khans university. A false blasphemy accusation was merely a convenient cover to hide their motives.

 

[Divergent]

I was making a point...

Anyways, about those adahees:

Even Ka'ab bin Al-Ashraf was not just a blasphemer, he was more than that, Many blasphemers were pardoned by Prophet & even those who did some very severe things. Like:
Tried to poison Prophet,
Threw garbage on him
Threw camel's stomach on him, while he was praying
Called him names
Peed in a mosque
etc.. etc.
None of them were killed.

Ka'ab bin Al-Ashraf was involved in inciting Fasaad (provoked Quraish) just like Maulvi-Radio Fazlullah(Fazal Hayat) incited fasaad via his FM broadcast. And obscene language about muslim women and refused to refrain from doing that. I quote "...Ka’ab bin Malik who was one of those whose repentance was accepted said “Ka’ab bin Al Ashraf used to satire the Prophet and incited the the Quraish against him....". This shows some ppl did repent & were given a chance to desist & their repentance was accepted.

Even jewish encyclopedia mentions that he was involved in inciting of violence:
I quote:
"... exciting the Ḳuraish to revenge... gone to Mecca to induce the Ḳuraish to fight Mohammed once more..."

So it wasn't a case of blasphemy alone. It was Fasaad-fil-arz just like maulvi-Radio.

You have stated such important evidence. I hope you don't mind but I've took hold of it?

Alhamdulillah I am fortunate living in the UK to meet and pray with brothers from all over the world at my local masjid. We are also fortunate to be receive khutbah and lessons from two Sheikhs one from Egypt and the other from Kuwait.

I put this matter to them yesterday and they made it clear this is not Islamic. The Egyptian Sheikh said the correct approach IF any blasphemy had been committed would have been to try and pass on wisdom and to correct the other person. He said on punishment lies solely with Allah for this matter based on Islamic Jurisprudence. Even if it took years of effort it would still have been better than killing a person.

Furthermore any punishment for this should have been handled by the state given the seriousness of the accusation.

My personal thoughts on the killing are it's a mafia style organised hit to silence a vocal critic by Mashal Khans university. A false blasphemy accusation was merely a convenient cover to hide their motives.

I spoke to a few Scholars as well and it's very true, my Jordanin Teacher told me that Pakistan version of Islam is very culturally and personally mixed. There is little universal appliance where as the original source of Faith is applicable to people of all areas. He also said this is not an 'Islamic' law and even IF blasphemy committed death isn't a warrant because that is a dictatory approach and no one is qualified to take death upon insult because had that been the case it would be The Creator who would rid people of other Beliefs worshipping other than Him.

This in itself is evidential. The previous scholars of Faith took Faith so forward that even critiquing Faith and exploring it was acceptable. Many of whom were scientists, philosophers, mathematicians and inventors that the West has used.

Now it's blaring your voice down the mic and issuing fatwas over every little thing and people don't even take these Mullas seriously. They've applied their mentality and cultural views to the whole Faith.

 

[Muhammad29psy]

We need to educate our people for real perspectives of Islam, and educated people like you have to take the burden of responsibility, but take responsibility to deliver the message, don't expect that all others will catch your point with or without any argument. Avoid laud, harsh, sarcastic tone while discussing anything. Keep your hate and anger aside, and try to practice objectivity, initially it will be difficult, but after sometime you would have command over emotions, and will not mind if someone is not receiving (message) what you want him/her to receive (message).

You have stated such important evidence. I hope you don't mind but I've took hold of it?




I spoke to a few Scholars as well and it's very true, my Jordanin Teacher told me that Pakistan version of Islam is very culturally and personally mixed. There is little universal appliance where as the original source of Faith is applicable to people of all areas. He also said this is not an 'Islamic' law and even IF blasphemy committed death isn't a warrant because that is a dictatory approach and no one is qualified to take death upon insult because had that been the case it would be The Creator who would rid people of other Beliefs worshipping other than Him.

This in itself is evidential. The previous scholars of Faith took Faith so forward that even critiquing Faith and exploring it was acceptable. Many of whom were scientists, philosophers, mathematicians and inventors that the West has used.

Now it's blaring your voice down the mic and issuing fatwas over every little thing and people don't even take these Mullas seriously. They've applied their mentality and cultural views to the whole Faith.

We need to educate our people for real perspectives of Islam, and educated people like you have to take the burden of responsibility, but take responsibility to deliver the message, don't expect that all others will catch your point with or without any argument. Avoid laud, harsh, sarcastic tone while discussing anything. Keep your hate and anger aside, and try to practice objectivity, initially it will be difficult, but after sometime you would have command over emotions, and will not mind if someone is not receiving (message) what you want him/her to receive (message).

No offence...
Lets stop that keyboard war before it could reach verbal abuses.Your logics are inacceptable to me and mine to yours.Morever this is defence forum so talk about upcoming PA assault rifle will be better.
So my suggestion is both of us should consult the Iman of our Masjid as he knows better then us.In the end I pray that May Allah bless both of us and show us the right path to success.

We need to educate our people for real perspectives of Islam, and educated people like you have to take the burden of responsibility, but take responsibility to deliver the message, don't expect that all others will catch your point with or without any argument. Avoid laud, harsh, sarcastic tone while discussing anything. Keep your hate and anger aside, and try to practice objectivity, initially it will be difficult, but after sometime you would have command over emotions, and will not mind if someone is not receiving (message) what you want him/her to receive (message).

What is the basic definition of justice in islamic jurisprudence? placing things in their rightful place.

• Verily! Allah commands that you should render back the trusts to those to whom they are due; and that when you judge between men, you judge with justice. Verily, how excellent is the teaching which He (Allâh) gives you! Truly, Allâh is Ever All-Hearer, All-Seer. Sura An-Nisa:58 (4:58)
• It is derived from the abovementioned
• Ayah e mubarika and other ayahs of the holy quran
• doing injustice in the hierarchy of the sources of islam is indeed one of the greatest injustices. And what can be the fruits of such injustice?
  
• You and i are all reaping it.
• The true hierarchy
• 1) QURAN the real hakam and touchstone
• 2) sunnah e mutawatir agreed upon by the whole ummah save a certain part
• 3) hadit the third source it is best source for seerah of our prophet saw and also for the purposes of islamic jurisprudence. But should be interpreted in the light of the above two
• because it contains a lot of akhbar e aahaad.
• Via my huawei y6ii

We need to educate our people for real perspectives of Islam, and educated people like you have to take the burden of responsibility, but take responsibility to deliver the message, don't expect that all others will catch your point with or without any argument. Avoid laud, harsh, sarcastic tone while discussing anything. Keep your hate and anger aside, and try to practice objectivity, initially it will be difficult, but after sometime you would have command over emotions, and will not mind if someone is not receiving (message) what you want him/her to receive (message).

Alhamdulillah I am fortunate living in the UK to meet and pray with brothers from all over the world at my local masjid. We are also fortunate to be receive khutbah and lessons from two Sheikhs one from Egypt and the other from Kuwait.

I put this matter to them yesterday and they made it clear this is not Islamic. The Egyptian Sheikh said the correct approach IF any blasphemy had been committed would have been to try and pass on wisdom and to correct the other person. He said on punishment lies solely with Allah for this matter based on Islamic Jurisprudence. Even if it took years of effort it would still have been better than killing a person.

Furthermore any punishment for this should have been handled by the state given the seriousness of the accusation.

My personal thoughts on the killing are it's a mafia style organised hit to silence a vocal critic by Mashal Khans university. A false blasphemy accusation was merely a convenient cover to hide their motives.

We need to educate our people for real perspectives of Islam, and educated people like you have to take the burden of responsibility, but take responsibility to deliver the message, don't expect that all others will catch your point with or without any argument. Avoid laud, harsh, sarcastic tone while discussing anything. Keep your hate and anger aside, and try to practice objectivity, initially it will be difficult, but after sometime you would have command over emotions, and will not mind if someone is not receiving (message) what you want him/her to receive (message).

Sir g my thinking does not matter and I never said that or not mean that Its was a lite joke. ........... And as I said changes can be done , but if you take Law in current condition its also working very fine... Just ask @Divergent1 , some body from authority told her .
Please don't mix barbaric act of people with the law........

We need to educate our people for real perspectives of Islam, and educated people like you have to take the burden of responsibility, but take responsibility to deliver the message, don't expect that all others will catch your point with or without any argument. Avoid laud, harsh, sarcastic tone while discussing anything. Keep your hate and anger aside, and try to practice objectivity, initially it will be difficult, but after sometime you would have command over emotions, and will not mind if someone is not receiving (message) what you want him/her to receive (message).

 

[Muhammad29psy]

We need to educate our people for real perspectives of Islam, and educated people like you have to take the burden of responsibility, but take responsibility to deliver the message, don't expect that all others will catch your point with or without any argument. Avoid laud, harsh, sarcastic tone while discussing anything. Keep your hate and anger aside, and try to practice objectivity, initially it will be difficult, but after sometime you would have command over emotions, and will not mind if someone is not receiving (message) what you want him/her to receive (message).

already many threads on this topic .Please not provoke public by using this incident.The more you do more such incidents happen.All this is done by foreign agencies to divide our society and waste our time.In u.s Muslim judge was killed but their media is not highlighting.this incident is great conspiracy against Pakistan we should not highlight it all the time

You are right my dear. But if you have carefully read the paper, then you may found that, the paper is not to provoke further incidents, but to restrict it in future. As an educator, it is my prime responsibility to educate my family (Pakistani), and work for development of resilience against provocation. If your children and not obeying you, would you search for solutions, or you would justify that, neighbors children are also doing the same but their parents dont care, so why do I? Hiding is not solution, but develop a mechanism so that issues like that could be countered before they happen. For that every body of us have to play our roles. Kick the ball to get in goal court, not just to kick.

 

[RangeMaster]

We need to educate our people for real perspectives of Islam, and educated people like you have to take the burden of responsibility, but take responsibility to deliver the message, don't expect that all others will catch your point with or without any argument. Avoid laud, harsh, sarcastic tone while discussing anything. Keep your hate and anger aside, and try to practice objectivity, initially it will be difficult, but after sometime you would have command over emotions, and will not mind if someone is not receiving (message) what you want him/her to receive (message).



We need to educate our people for real perspectives of Islam, and educated people like you have to take the burden of responsibility, but take responsibility to deliver the message, don't expect that all others will catch your point with or without any argument. Avoid laud, harsh, sarcastic tone while discussing anything. Keep your hate and anger aside, and try to practice objectivity, initially it will be difficult, but after sometime you would have command over emotions, and will not mind if someone is not receiving (message) what you want him/her to receive (message).



We need to educate our people for real perspectives of Islam, and educated people like you have to take the burden of responsibility, but take responsibility to deliver the message, don't expect that all others will catch your point with or without any argument. Avoid laud, harsh, sarcastic tone while discussing anything. Keep your hate and anger aside, and try to practice objectivity, initially it will be difficult, but after sometime you would have command over emotions, and will not mind if someone is not receiving (message) what you want him/her to receive (message).


We need to educate our people for real perspectives of Islam, and educated people like you have to take the burden of responsibility, but take responsibility to deliver the message, don't expect that all others will catch your point with or without any argument. Avoid laud, harsh, sarcastic tone while discussing anything. Keep your hate and anger aside, and try to practice objectivity, initially it will be difficult, but after sometime you would have command over emotions, and will not mind if someone is not receiving (message) what you want him/her to receive (message).


We need to educate our people for real perspectives of Islam, and educated people like you have to take the burden of responsibility, but take responsibility to deliver the message, don't expect that all others will catch your point with or without any argument. Avoid laud, harsh, sarcastic tone while discussing anything. Keep your hate and anger aside, and try to practice objectivity, initially it will be difficult, but after sometime you would have command over emotions, and will not mind if someone is not receiving (message) what you want him/her to receive (message).


We need to educate our people for real perspectives of Islam, and educated people like you have to take the burden of responsibility, but take responsibility to deliver the message, don't expect that all others will catch your point with or without any argument. Avoid laud, harsh, sarcastic tone while discussing anything. Keep your hate and anger aside, and try to practice objectivity, initially it will be difficult, but after sometime you would have command over emotions, and will not mind if someone is not receiving (message) what you want him/her to receive (message).

You are absolutely right bro. I could't control myself..It was my fault and I admit it.In the end I draw back and left this.
They all are my Muslim brothers and I also learned many things from them.
Thank you very much for your kind suggestions.Next time I'll try to practice them.InshAllah.May God bless all of us.

 

[Muhammad29psy]

You are absolutely right bro. I could't control myself..It was my fault and I admit it.In the end I draw back and left this.
They all are my Muslim brothers and I also learned many things from them.
Thank you very much for your kind suggestions.Next time I'll try to practice them.InshAllah.May God bless all of us.

Great, Bro realization itself is a solution. We all have right to express our opinion and have responsibility to listen others. People like you are assets of Pakistan.

 

[Muhammad29psy]

Wait I thought religious threads weren't allowed? @The Eagle why don't you do your bit here too? Or is it one rule for someone else and another rule for someone else?

Mine was discussing the murder linked to Blasphemy Law. This is specifically based on religion.

@Proudpakistaniguy



Why don't you admit that there is a problem with blasphemy laws being misused and that it does require a reformation. It's better to let someone go accidentally than to KILL them accidentally.

The issue is not religious one, but it is social pathology, it should be discussed and better to condemn. Otherwise, we are very near to face civil war.

 

[Muhammad29psy]

.