Putin to visit China after skipping US

[Chinese Century]

That was never our land. That was Manchu Emperor's land, literally, his personal fiefdom. Han weren't allowed on most of it. That's why he gave it away (yes, he was never defeated, he gave it away!) in the Treaty of Aigun in 1850.

On the other hand, KMT actually lost land that did belong to us - they sold Outer Mongolia to USSR in 1920 and Inner Mongolia (the "public" part of Northeast) to Japan in 1930 by telling Zhang Xueliang to not resist. That's why they were defeated first by Japan (until a close rescue) and then defeated again by PLA.

thats why the west loves those KMT bastards.
anything that is bad for china, the west loves.
anything that is good for china, the west hates.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Correct the KMT made some of the biggest blunders that are costing us to this day.

KMT belongs to the history, but we still need their name to hold off those DPP fanatics.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

That was never our land. That was Manchu Emperor's land, literally, his personal fiefdom. Han weren't allowed on most of it. That's why he gave it away (yes, he was never defeated, he gave it away!) in the Treaty of Aigun in 1850.

On the other hand, KMT actually lost land that did belong to us - they sold Outer Mongolia to USSR in 1920 and Inner Mongolia (the "public" part of Northeast) to Japan in 1930 by telling Zhang Xueliang to not resist. That's why they were defeated first by Japan (until a close rescue) and then defeated again by PLA.

At least we need to take back Outer Mongolia, which KMT conceded to USSR.

 

[below_freezing]

At least we need to take back Outer Mongolia, which KMT conceded to USSR.

It is a net loss now. All we need to do is strip mine their resources and ship them away.

 

[Sonyuke_Songpaisan]

thats why the west loves those KMT bastards.
anything that is bad for china, the west loves.
anything that is good for china, the west hates.

KMT is part of our history. dont hate our past. we should learn from history. even the manchu rulers respect Ming.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

KMT is part of our history. dont hate our past. we should learn from history. even the manchu rulers respect Ming.

Yuan and Qing are all part of our history, even they were not Han, but they were just as Chinese as the Han KMT.

 

[Sonyuke_Songpaisan]

Yuan and Qing are all part of our history, even they were not Han, but they were just as Chinese as the Han KMT.

No, not Chinese, BUt chinese citizens

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

No, not Chinese, BUt chinese citizens

Today's Mongols and Manchus don't look much different from Han.

 

[ephone]

I do not know how you measure "reliable". If by consistent and constant supplying China will Oil and GAS, I think gulf states are way more reliable than russia has ever been.

Historically, russia has done way more harm to China than any other countries including japs.

Even today, russia does not want to see a stronger China. I bet even U.S. is not that reluctant to see China's rise.

As far as alienating russia??? Well, why does russia want to alienate China by providing all types of weapons to vietnam, phillipines, and working with vietnam on scs to mess up with China and etc???

Nowadays, between China and russia, russia is the weaker one. russia is now facing NATO missile shield issue, syria's issue and many other issues that desperately need China's help.

While China helps russia on Syria (syria is way more important to russia than to China), that is what China gets for return in SCS???

Do not act stupidly while you should do things otherwise. This should apply to russia and China both.

Of course in view of current strength of China, she can do that but SA is not a reliable supplier because of its close ties with the yankies. Why should we alienate Russia because our immediate and present threats are common and imminent?

You did not include india in the basket.

Forget about Ph, even if you sell them a nuke they dont know how to use it. it is semi true with india. Let the Russians milk them to abject poverty.

Vietcongs are different. They are insane bastards. But in view of current geopolitics, everything is relative.

No threatening to cut us off???

russia was in talk with japs to change the route for its oil export all the times in the past.

As far as your theory of saudi for U.S. and against China, well, it has never happened so far. Gulf States have provided the largest amount of oil China need, more than places anywhere else. It has been consistent and stable.

As far as russia, we have to keep negotiating with year after year, providing a huge amount of loans and who knows whether we can get them back safely or not. Do gulf states treat China that way? I do not think so.

As far as retaliation, I do not say that we need do it now. However, we need let russia know that if russia does not stop its foolish acts, China does have ways to counter against its foolishness.

Now as a weaker partner and facing with a much stronger west, can russia afford to have another enemy???

i don't think we can import any more from Saudi. Saudi net exports peaked in 2007. If it comes down to US or us, they'll pick US to export to any day. Russia right now is pumping more than Saudi Arabia and is safer - the US cannot cut us off.

in fact, Russia is complaining that we aren't buying enough and wants us to buy more, not threatening to cut us off.

if we raise human rights in Chechen they can go right ahead and cause trouble in Xinjiang and escalate. If we arm Georgia that's just money down the toilet while if Russia could sell reliable rockets to South Korea instead of selling them fakes and then that'd be a problem.

in the end, both of us waste resources for nothing. Russia is only selling to Vietnam not Philippines, and I think we can raise this issue with them, but stupid retaliation would just get us surrounded and killed.

when did gulf states do that to China???

I concur. The big word "SANCTION"!

Well, for decades, it seems that the one keeping knocking China door for rents is russia, not gulf states including saudi.

As far as your love for putin, well, I do not think he has the same love for you through his actions against Chinese interest either inside russia or outside russia.

To be honest, I would rather China has a better relationship with U.S. than with the hideous russia. I do think russia can ever be a friend even though I do not want to have a constant foe from north.

PRC has had a steadier relationship (far, far...) with arabic states than with russia (soviet or post-soviet version). no one can deny that. so we still withhold the most sincere form of friendship from each other. but no big deal - because both countries have learned that even if we make bad friends, we make far worse enemies.

there is no absolute geographic imperative that says china and arabic states must be friends - or even enemies - forever. with russia, it is either friend or foe, no with room for strategic ambivalence in the long run, and we both know being each other's enemy is extremely costly to both of us. (same thing can be said of russia and germany - which is why russians must be convinced to make friends on both ends of eurasia - but not of china and india - which is why as a chinese i think we are going to screw india for the long haul, even if just for the fun of it, exactly because it is going to be pretty low-stake for it.)

in the end, trade relations with gulf states are fickle precisely because they lack such geopolitical determination. they are also fickle because i still believe the monarchists are in the pocket of anglo-american-jewish cabal, and sooner or later this cabal will come knock on china's door asking for rent for allowing sino-arabic relationship to go on. an honorable chinese will die before a pence is paid to the americans because he needs to trade with a few medieval saudi royalists.

i whole-heartedly welcome putin and wish the two sides can make the most out of this presidential visit.

You never learn history??? We were enemies even when U.S. exists.

We will not be enemies as long as US still exists.

I think idiot should be on your part.

Only weapons sales? While China clearly points out that SCS is China's core interest, russia still work with vietnam on disputed SCS for oil drilling??? That is what you call a strategic partner should so while China is supportive of russia on Syria??? Is Syria that important to China? I do not think so. I think Libya is way more important.

However, Syria is way way more important to Russia.

BTW, do not be an idiot saying that is just history. Japs invading China can also be considered as "just history". The worst part is that japs did not even steal more than 1/3 China's territory!

Can we get back our 1/3 China territory from russia and tell it to get over it???

Nobody say we should be against each other. However, we need a stronger voice to tell russia that it need stop its foolishness and act like a strategic partner. So far, China has done her part while russia does not.

No it can't

China can make up from the gulf with Iran and Russia

the gulf is firmly within the US sphere of influence they have their own ambitition including funding separatist aka Saudi Arabia

never has fine with russia now

Of course you prefer the gulf arabs to russia that have noting to offer now and have their own agenda's ?

Don't be such an Idiot Russia is not going to mess with China many Issues, Russia and Vietnam have been doing weapons sales far longer then anything that traces back to soviet times, china is doing business with georgia, Georgia is a pro western ally why would we supply them ? lol human rights on the chechens when chechyna is russian you seriously live in a deluded world, We have solved our disputes with Russia and they are one of our most important partners the leadership we have certainly doesn't share your minority views. your free to have your own views but it's evident that China's leadership views russia as a strategic partner.



That's simply past history russia and us have gotten over it after the USSR fell it's more then use me use you it was true during the cold war but today different.

By your stupid standard, Mongolia is not our land as well and Tibet is not either since those part of lands are controlled by the Qing Empire, which is Manchu.

That was never our land. That was Manchu Emperor's land, literally, his personal fiefdom. Han weren't allowed on most of it. That's why he gave it away (yes, he was never defeated, he gave it away!) in the Treaty of Aigun in 1850.

On the other hand, KMT actually lost land that did belong to us - they sold Outer Mongolia to USSR in 1920 and Inner Mongolia (the "public" part of Northeast) to Japan in 1930 by telling Zhang Xueliang to not resist. That's why they were defeated first by Japan (until a close rescue) and then defeated again by PLA.

Well, KMT fought the japs mainly on the front well CCP rested in the backyard.

Just count how many japs KMT killed vs those killed by CCP.

So there is no need to trash KMT for all the evils.

thats why the west loves those KMT bastards.
anything that is bad for china, the west loves.
anything that is good for china, the west hates.

Manchu rulers have done way more contribution to China than those ming emperors.

Just look at history, how many good emperors were there during ming vs qing???

KMT is part of our history. dont hate our past. we should learn from history. even the manchu rulers respect Ming.

 

[chauism]

At least we need to take back Outer Mongolia, which KMT conceded to USSR.

So did CPC, Outer Mongolia is a lost cause. At least ROC has the guts to include Out Mongolia in the map of China after it renounced the treat that conceded Mongolia.

 

[below_freezing]

So did CPC, Outer Mongolia is a lost cause. At least ROC has the guts to include Out Mongolia in the map of China after it renounced the treat that conceded Mongolia.

It's very skilled at opening new frontiers on a map because it's far away.

 

[3Idiots]

So did CPC, Outer Mongolia is a lost cause. At least ROC has the guts to include Out Mongolia in the map of China after it renounced the treat that conceded Mongolia.

We feel the same about Tibet .... we lost it because of Nehru.

However, we have never formally signed it off .... and it falls as a part of Greater India.

Greater India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[chauism]

We feel the same about Tibet .... we lost it because of Nehru.

However, we have never formally signed it off .... and it falls as a part of Greater India.

Greater India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The difference here is that Tibet was never a part of India or under India's adminstration at any given point of time. By the definition of your great India, China should also includes Japan and Korea as Confucius idealoies and Chinese language are also part of their social fabrics.

 

[Raphael]

There's some interesting discussion here. I just want to say that 'friendship' and 'trust' are such emotionally laden words, and as such, they have little use when discussing geopolitics because China's foreign policy should be based on pure realpolitik. Russia can never be a 'true' friend, based on the standard we have with Pakistan, simply because it has its own great-power aspirations. Our interactions will never be spontaneous, but based on careful cost-benefit analyses. In the past when we didn't understand this, we got screwed us over like during the Korean War, because Stalin approached everything with careful calculation while Mao was consumed by ideology. But now that we've switched to a realpolitik based approach, we shouldn't make these mistakes anymore. Our relationship is between two seasoned business partners, not family members, and that's perfectly acceptable.

In the long run, it's true that Russia has done the worst damage to us. The international concessions in Shanghai were returned. The British and Portugese recently returned Hong Kong and Macau. Japanese imperialism was probably the most pernicious after Russia, and Taiwan is still outside our administration (but technically under Chinese administration) but this will most likely be rectified in the future. In contrast, the Russians managed to pry off Outer Mongolia, Outer Manchuria and Sakhalin, and these losses are probably permanent. This is a fait accompli, and we should learn to live with it. Keep in mind that most of Outer Monglia is a desert wasteland, has little strategic value, and its mineral wealth can be obtained through trade. The worst lost was of Vladivostok (Haishenwei) that cut us off from the Sea of Japan, and if an opportunity arises to redraw the border down the Ussuri river (instead of across Lake Khanka), then we should seize it. Otherwise, I am fairly unmoved by these losses to Russia, and I would consider maintaining good relations more important.

Russia's support to Vietnam is a remnant of the Sino-Soviet split, and annoying of course, but it's absurd to expect Russia to curtail these relations simply on our insistence. What we can do is adopt a symmetrical response, by enhancing relations with the Baltic states, Poland, Ukraine, Georgia, etc, and squeeze Russia whenever they squeeze us. The other thing is that we should not have vetoed the Syria resolution, because Syria is far less important to us than to Russia, and it only pissed off the Arabs. Of course, when Russia co-operates with us by snubbing Vietnam, India, etc, then we should recognize this and co-operate in other areas they demand. Business relationship.

About the oil issue: I don't know why you guys keep emphasizing 'trustworthy' or 'friendship'. There's no need to buy oil only from 'trustworthy' states or'friends' of course. It doesn't matter that we have our difference with Russia, or that the Gulf countries are US client states; makes no difference to the oil. What's important is to not become dependent on one side, and in this sense we should diversify our sources so that no one supplier can induce supply shocks.

Looking ahead to the future, it's evident that Russia is a declining power. It's demographics are screwy, and it hasn't been able to diversify its economy away from oil and weapons sales. It's GDP is growing quite fast, but that's because its economy has been unnaturaly depressed by mismanagement during the 90's. Once it reaches roughly Germany's GDP, it will have reached equilibrium. There's no need to antagonize a declining power. Another issue is that Russia and US interest will collide in the future over the Arctic:

Petroleum exploration in the Arctic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As more of the ice caps melt, more petroleum will be available and this will inevitably lead to disputes. Right now, US-China antagonism is simply based on tension generated from China's rise. Keep in mind that our spheres of influence don't actually overlap. In contrast, the Arctic issue will be a proper teritorrial dispute between great powers and will considerably lessen the pressure on China. This distraction will give us considerable space to make geopolitical manouevres.

 

[Sasquatch]

I

I think idiot should be on your part.

Only weapons sales? While China clearly points out that SCS is China's core interest, russia still work with vietnam on disputed SCS for oil drilling??? That is what you call a strategic partner should so while China is supportive of russia on Syria??? Is Syria that important to China? I do not think so. I think Libya is way more important.

However, Syria is way way more important to Russia.

BTW, do not be an idiot saying that is just history. Japs invading China can also be considered as "just history". The worst part is that japs did not even steal more than 1/3 China's territory!

Can we get back our 1/3 China territory from russia and tell it to get over it???

Nobody say we should be against each other. However, we need a stronger voice to tell russia that it need stop its foolishness and act like a strategic partner. So far, China has done her part while russia does not.



By your stupid standard, Mongolia is not our land as well and Tibet is not either since those part of lands are controlled by the Qing Empire, which is Manchu.

Not it's rather you who is the idiot, you bring up chechens when that has noting to do with the issue also want to sell weapons to Georgia who is a pro western ally Vietnam - Russia relations goes back to soviet times when you saying china should sell weapons to georgia whose the idiot starting to look like you doesn't it ?

If you know anything Gaddafi was in for recognizing taiwan not to mention he left the alliance with China to the west, Gaddafi got his own making.

Syria is rather more important it is a key factor in middle east geopolitics. this has noting to do with the japanese, Russia and Us have solved our dispute it seems you have a small minority view on getting land that will never get back. simple Russia is one of our best strategic partner unless you want to replace with Georgia or saudi arabia as you say they are more reliable, please stop with your idiotic views that is a minority right now the CCP sees Russia as a partner and has solved disputes them.