Punjabi and Urdu - Are they two different languages?

[Gandhi G in da house]

@Fateh : Except Tamil / Telugu / Malayalam / Kannada which are not from 'Indo-european language' family.

As soon as he said , his Telugu friends don't understand Hindi , I knew he had no idea what he is talking about. Obviously they don't. Telugu and Hindi belong to two completely different language families.

 

[bronxbull]

Urdu is not necessarily a foriegn language for pak punjabis.

The thing is Pak Punjabis ancestrally from Indian Punjab are more closer to delhi Sultanate and thus Urdu also.

Secondly I know many Hindu punjabis who came across from Pindi/Peshawar/lahore/Bahawlpur etc who all speak excellent urdu not to forget people like Gulzar/Raj Kapoor/Yash Chopra/Amrish Puri/Om Puri/Madan Lal Puri etc who were good at urdu apart from speaking their motehr tongue punjabi .....

so essentially all these provinces were not totally isolated as we perceive today barring areas where natural barriers occur which do not cause meeting and mixing to happen.

Thats why we have Pashto at one end,North Eastern languages ate one end and The Dravidian languages at the other end and a language like Marathi which is totally borrowed from everywhere.

 

[Ayush]

No I meant refined.

As English spoken in high society Boston vs. English spoken in a booney town of Appalachia.






Please keep the discussion intellectual. You are now talking like my dirt poor, village cousins from Bihar.


thank you.




Refined in Gangatic Plains? ha!

Can you name some major cities where Urdu prose and poetry developed in the 19th and 20th century (long before 1947).

Thank you

so ur origin lies in bihar??

 

[Sugarcane]

Agreed.

Punjabi is not dialect of Urdu

But Urdu is a lucknavi dialect of Punjabi

Guru-Mukhi script as it says was introduced Sikhs in 15th century or later.

Before Sikhism, Punjabi poets like Farid, (12th century) etc. were using script Khate-Nastaleeq (the same as persian).


Thank you.




Based on what reasoning my lord? What pearls of wisdom Sire?

Enlighten us.

Thank you

Sorry, I mistyped, Urdu is not dialect of Punjabi but mixture of different languages - Like from other languages it has loaned many words from Punjabi as well - If based on these loan words or grammar similarities we call it Punjabi dialect than we can also call it dialect of Hindi & Persian but that's not the case - even tone of Punjabi is different from other sub-continent languages. But as i stated earlier that because of lot of loaned words (specially in Urban areas of Punjab) from Urdu to Punjabi and Punjabi to Urdu they look similar. Punjabi of Lahore is not refined but gulabi one. But i think after few more decades we will be having altogether new Language which will be neither Urdu nor Punjabi.

Punjabi is much older than Farid the oldest script of Punjabi is Devanagari not Shah-Mukhi or Guru Mukhi.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Urdu is not necessarily a foriegn language for pak punjabis.

The thing is Pak Punjabis ancestrally from Indian Punjab are more closer to delhi Sultanate and thus Urdu also.

Secondly I know many Hindu punjabis who came across from Pindi/Peshawar/lahore/Bahawlpur etc who all speak excellent urdu not to forget people like Gulzar/Raj Kapoor/Yash Chopra/Amrish Puri/Om Puri/Madan Lal Puri etc who were good at urdu apart from speaking their motehr tongue punjabi .....

so essentially all these provinces were not totally isolated as we perceive today barring areas where natural barriers occur which do not cause meeting and mixing to happen.

Thats why we have Pashto at one end,North Eastern languages ate one end and The Dravidian languages at the other end and a language like Marathi which is totally borrowed from everywhere.

Thank you for supporting your argument with good reasoning.

Please keep this in mind.


1. Urdu - means "Laskhari" or military. Punjabis have been the dominant supplier of soldiers (Hindus+Muslims and later Sikhs) to Delhi armies. This was the language spoken by the soldiers and officers. Moghal and earlier courts relied on Persian. So did the Nawabs and Rajas in UP and Bihar.

The the "organic" evolution and everyday use of Urdu has always been the domain of the predominantly Panabis and the soldiers hailing from Punjab.


2. East Punjabis close to Delhi, were not martial until the middle of Sikh period. Martial Punjabis came from North and West of Punjab.

So please do not make a mistake of attributing Urdu to Jalhdhur or Ludhiana.



Thank you.