Punjab plans to complete six plants of 7,820MW by 2018: CM

[xyxmt]

Aren't there enough laws to do that already? More laws are not the answer, but effective enforcement of existing laws is what is needed.

laws like seizure of property etc, something that deters people, even if laws are not implemented police will ask you so much for it that you will be scared to even think about stealing. right now i dont think there any specific laws against utility theft

 

[VCheng]

laws like seizure of property etc, something that deters people, even if laws are not implemented police will ask you so much for it that you will be scared to even think about stealing. right now i dont think there any specific laws against utility theft

Stealing is stealing and against the existing body of law.

 

[ziaulislam]

Cheap is a relative term, the IMF will not allow any subsidies on power generation. Besides, whatever the rate, the circular debt will remain a problem due to nonpayment and theft.

circular emerged as problem due to lack of cheap electricity due to absence of "gas".
uptil 2004-05 we had enough gas to run oil/gas plants but that ended when CNG sector plus domestic demand raised
so those plants started to run on furnance oil resulting in tarrif of 18-20 cents
now if govt gets coal on 8-10 cents , then it truly can finish circular debt as govt is charging domestic consumers at 14 rs, industrial at 16 rs and average of about 10.

now days average cost is 14-16 rs. govt plans to bring at 10rs via coal,hydro and nuclear

real question is what will govt do for next four years how will it cover 400 billion/ year rupees looses due to theft and poor efficiency of GENCO(less 30%)

 

[VCheng]

circular emerged as problem due to lack of cheap electricity due to absence of "gas".

The circular debt did not arise due to the price of the power. It arose because the major users, including government departments and the military simply do not pay their bills, and private companies and citizens stealing power add to the problem. That lack of payment still continues unchanged, no matter what the price.

 

[ziaulislam]

The circular debt did not arise due to the price of the power. It arose because the major users, including government departments and the military simply do not pay their bills, and private companies and citizens stealing power add to the problem. That lack of payment still continues unchanged, no matter what the price.

sir, please use your head.
its simple matter of mathematics.
in 2003 production price+line losses(=40%) was roughly 6 rs(due to cheap hydro and very cheap local gas). tarrif roughly 6 rs
in 2008 production price +losses(=40-45%) was roughly 18 rs(thanks to 1/3 power produced at 1 rs from hydro) tarif still around 10-12rs

ofcourse if every body start paying bill their will be no circular debt (as production price will automatically decrease by 30%) but thats one side of the picture.
e.g even in india line losses are still 30-40% but there production is cheaper due to coal and tarrif is higher

 

[VCheng]

ofcourse if every body start paying bill their will be no circular debt

Why would anybody pay their bills as they should if they can get away with free power?

 

[ziaulislam]

Why would anybody pay their bills as they should if they can get away with free power?

it happens in every poor third world country. same problem in bangladesh and india .
in pakistan its little out of the proportion in sindh and KPK
the realistic solution is to decrease line losses to say 30% from current 45% and then decrease cost of production via coal and hydro

 

[VCheng]

the realistic solution is to decrease line losses to say 30% from current 45% and then decrease cost of production via coal and hydro

So how can this "realistic" solution be implemented? Not likely.

 

[ziaulislam]

So how can this "realistic" solution be implemented? Not likely.

predicting Pakistani govt performance is very difficulty.
simply if govt is able to just materialize all the MoUs it signed then its possible.
it has been done in the past by PPPP govt when it was serious through IPPs.
so on likely scale its more likely.
there doing fine in area of wind and nuclear though, lets see how does the coal sector performs

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

A simple solution to finish the problem of circular debt in the future is to use the model of prepaid electricity. This is being used in UK for electric and natural gas. The person goes and buys the number of units that he/she thinks would be enough for the month and inserts that card in the meter which allows electric or gas. It also indicates the utilization and the remaining balance. The card can be charged at any petrol station or post office etc.

In Pakistan mobile phones are prepaid so we would not have any trouble in having electricity or natural gas in the same manner.

 

[VCheng]

A simple solution to finish the problem of circular debt in the future is to use the model of prepaid electricity. This is being used in UK for electric and natural gas. The person goes and buys the number of units that he/she thinks would be enough for the month and inserts that card in the meter which allows electric or gas. It also indicates the utilization and the remaining balance. The card can be charged at any petrol station or post office etc.

In Pakistan mobile phones are prepaid so we would not have any trouble in having electricity or natural gas in the same manner.

Prepaid? Good luck with a distribution system like this:

Image taken by Faiz.Aslam@PW.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Prepaid? Good luck with a distribution system like this:

Image taken by Faiz.Aslam@PW.

The pic is not the worst I have seen. Don't have that pic on me so that you may have seen.

 

[Shahmir]

Good luck to Shahbaz Sharif with his plans, as a resident of punjab I pretty satisfied with his tenure. I hope he starts some new projects in Gujranwala too.

 

[Asian.Century]

Wow, if they actually do this....it will be massive achievement by CM.

 

[SBD-3]

Nobody gives a shit abt dr sb... Weak CM ..

Who could be a "strong" CM then? Gen Pasha?

Cheap is a relative term, the IMF will not allow any subsidies on power generation. Besides, whatever the rate, the circular debt will remain a problem due to nonpayment and theft.

Not necessarily, unless government can arrange for covering the deficit from other avenues to match the IMF targets.